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actualday

Racing at a track....

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Hi Guys,

as i have always favoured the old school off road buggies, i am considering getting bang up to date with a buggy as i would like to race at a local meeting in the North West of UK.

I have contacted a local club, and it would appear that the club races associated B4 buggies, but I like Tamiyas per se. I would get a second hand associated if needs be, but my preference would be for Tamiya in terms of having access to hop ups and spares. Keeping costs down is also an issue...

The Zahak buggy looks like it might fit the bill for racing, but how would it compare to a B4 buggy at the track.

Hope someone might be able to give me a steer in the right direction...

Cheers guys

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Despite our love for Tamiya, for racing, I would try to be as practical as possible. If everyone is running Team Associated B4, I would go with the crowd. Mainly if you are new, it's much easier to get setup help from a fellow racer who has been on the track more times than you. If you break anything, chances are someone will the part you need so it won't ruin your race day. Local club means that the local hobby shop will probably carry a lot parts so that means you won't have to be ordering from somewhere else, helping both local economy and keep shipping time to a minimal.

As for the Zahak, skip that and go directly to the TRF201. Despite the price difference, the TRF201 is more "economical" just because of the hop-ups it already comes with. Not to mention it's a lot more durable for race conditions.

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+1 if you go with a tamiya the trf201 is the way to go. the zahak doen't have a slipper clutch for starters.

if you want to buy second hand try to find a first gen b4, not the 4.1. the og b4 has better plastics IMHO and is more rigid.

the factory team version is the stiffest. the most popular combination is a factory team b4 with the regualr plastic chassis.

that way you get a bit more chassis flex yet the rest of the parts are the carbon versions.

this is the combo i run and the car is great. the only thing that has ever broken on my ft b4 is the front shock tower, and that was only the tip and didn't prevent me from finishing a race.

the 4.1 is a bit more forgiving and still a great car.

remember that b4's need american tools. also i think the tamiya is almost a straight copy of the b4 anyway, so regardless you'll have a great car no matter what you choose.

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I agree wholeheartedly with what TenzoR has said.

In the UK, you will find that B4 spares are widely available, whereas spares for the Tamiya cars and in particular the TRF car are not.

In terms of performance, the Tamiya is basically a copy of the B4, so the two have the potential to run pretty similarly.

If you do insist on choosing the Tamiya, don't waste your time with the Zahhak, the spec is far too low for racing and by the time you have bought the essential shocks and slipper clutch you are way over the price of a TRF201 for a car that still isn't as good.

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Just a note, it's never the car that wins the race, it's the driver + car setup for the condition of the track at that particular date/time :unsure:

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Just a note, it's never the car that wins the race, it's the driver + car setup for the condition of the track at that particular date/time :unsure:

true. i'll add that the factory setup in the b4 manual will get you 95% there on almost any track.

add the right tires and you're right there.

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I hear everywhere that the TRF201 is pretty much a Tamiya version (copy) of the AEB4. If that's true, then surely it shouldn't be too hard to use the AE setups as a base to setup your TRF201, right? :unsure: I mean, the B4 may be cheaper, buy the TRF201 is still a Tamiya and it looks at least a 1000 times better than the B4 (it's all in the details, and on that part, Tamiya goes one step beyond where the others go imo, especially with styling).

Besides that, I also had an email conversation with a member from the US recently... He told me that he's seen the B4's break parts pretty often whilst the TRF counterparts just keep on going. Tamiya might have copied the basic geometry, but they did really well in improving the reliability - plus I bet that Tamiya's 'steep' prices are a result from not making compromises in material quality (or making very little) whereas other manufacturer's may be more tempted to do so in exchange for a lower sales price (Tamiya is a stubborn company in many things they do - they are different :) in both good and bad ways).

If I were in your position, I'd be stubborn and get a TRF201. Who knows, the setup of an AEB4 might work pretty good. If it doesn't, then become the man to talk to on the track for a good setup. After all, isn't it the fun you came for in this hobby, not just some quick lap times? :) (though they are an added bonus, and I do admit that if you can't keep up with anyone on the track, it might not be as satisfying driving there as it would be when you're one of the quicker drivers).

PS No.1: I'm not trying to claim the AEB4 would be a bad choice. I just have some reasons here to choose for a Tamiya :angry:

PS No.2: From my reply you might have guessed my opinion on TRF201 vs. Zahhak, but let's put it here: Comparison topic.

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I have been club racing a DB-01 for several years now on tracks in the USA (California). Parts are almost non existent at the tracks, but I race it anyway.. The other TC members are right, the Tamiya TRF or Club Racing buggies are built like tanks - I rarely break parts and the ones that do break are very predictable (like front or rear arms).. An average Associated car breaks much more often than my DB-01 and I have won races simply because my car held up on a poorly maintained track (outdoor dirt tracks mostly)..

I'm about to finish a build of a 501X and retire my DB-01.. I'm also going to build a 201X so I can join the 2WD class...

My cars are not popular among the tracks I race at, but I love Tamiya - so I'm going to keep on racing them :unsure:

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Besides that, I also had an email conversation with a member from the US recently... He told me that he's seen the B4's break parts pretty often whilst the TRF counterparts just keep on going. Tamiya might have copied the basic geometry, but they did really well in improving the reliability

hogwash. the b4 is by far the strongest of the current 2wd offerings. proved week in and week out in clubs all over the world.

i'd like to know where your us friend lives, because trf201's are non existant around here. i've seen 1 at a track since they came out and the guy had setup trouble.

you can't just copy a b4 setup. the shock pistons, springs and such are all different.

i am far from a great driver and i crash and hit things that would destroy a competitors car (fragile kyosho rb5 comes to mind), yet my b4 keeps going and going like the energizer bunny.

go with whats supported, thats the best advise. and run the tires the fast guys are running.

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that is true to some extent but not entirely true.

You could have the most hopped up Rough rider in history, be Driver #1 in the world, throw it on a modern track with B4.1 cars and just get shredded.

I meant within reason :unsure:

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Thanks Guys that is just the info i was looking for...

I am really now tempted to get a 4.1 RTR as it comes with a brushless set up and a 2.4 ghz radio [where the cash will come from god only knows, but i am living in hope!!!LOL] Actually £200 quid all in seems good value to me on reflection, is it really too good to be true??

I have just a standard 27 Mhz crystal radio set at the moment, the 30 quid type from modelsport, and its fine for my old Thrasher for mucking around in the street, as I only have one set of crystals... so the new radio would be essential at the track i think.

Will I have to go all Lipo do you guys think? as i have other priorities and really only have Nicad racing packs at the moment [ebay purchase, and they suit me fine for bashing]

sorry to be a pain and ask more questions but I am a bit naive about the new technology of brushless , 2.4 GHz handsets and lipo...

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hogwash. the b4 is by far the strongest of the current 2wd offerings. proved week in and week out in clubs all over the world.

i'd like to know where your us friend lives, because trf201's are non existant around here. i've seen 1 at a track since they came out and the guy had setup trouble.

you can't just copy a b4 setup. the shock pistons, springs and such are all different.

i am far from a great driver and i crash and hit things that would destroy a competitors car (fragile kyosho rb5 comes to mind), yet my b4 keeps going and going like the energizer bunny.

go with whats supported, thats the best advise. and run the tires the fast guys are running.

Clear answer on the setup :( Then still in theory, using AE dampers and springs would be sufficient... which I doubt it is :) Fact is that Tamiya has changed more than you see at first glance. Apart from what's supported at the track, it's worth also checking what's supported by your tool and spares box: If AEs used metric hardware it wouldn't be unlikely that I'd own one right now (as I did consider buying one before the TRF201 came out). Every single screw, washer or bearing that wears down is something that's not in my spares box though.

For racing I guess it might be less of a problem though. I imagine you'd have half a car worth of spares anyway so you don't run out of something regular on a track day? :huh:

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The RTR is worth it since you don't already have good electrics.

The brushless version has a sensorless motor which is a bit rough at the bottom end so not ideal for racing, but usable. The radio is OK, certainly no worse than your cheap 27MHz set, and 2.4 won't have any crystal clashes at the track.

If you are buying new batteries then LiPo are the only thing worth considering, you will need to make sure you have a suitable charger. Most clubs will insist on a hard case, some may insist on them being on the BRCA list. You can use your NiCds for the time being.

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Save some money and buy used. You get way more value for the same amount of money.

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i cant vouch for the B4 as i have never driven one, but i do own a TRF201 and i rate it very highly. its a very quick buggy easy to drive, and the spares are readily available and not expensive.

check what motors and speedies you are allowed for class, before investing, same with lipo. i would suggest new lipo though, not second hand. i have bought many second hand lipo, and despite sellers assurances...they always turn out to be duds. wheras the new ones i have bought, have been faultless.

second hand speedies and motors should be fine so long as they have not been thermalled. again a lottery to a degree. make sure the speedie has a lipo cut off function.

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reality just bit me on the *******... going to save up for a b4.1 or a b4 second hand after visiting the club to see what they use in terms of a suitable beginner class.

I have never raced before but am really looking forward to it, i hope there is a range of abilities there as i dont want to stand out like a sore thumb!

Thanks again for all your posts guys, its been really insightful, and really very helpful

Cheers, Actualday

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It's great to hear from someone who wants to start racing. It's ALOT of fun and a huge part of the hobby.

All the comments are good and useful. I've been racing on and off for 20 years and my suggestions for you are:

1. all cars are breakable. If your local track has lots of hard barriers and edges then get the most popular car secondhand and use that. If the track(s) are not car breakers then go with what ever your heart wants. You can sell it after a while if its a dud, you will take a hefty loss but you'll have done what you wanted.

2. Buy the most expensive electrics you can afford. THESE make the biggest difference. In this order: fastest steering servo, lastest lipo, esc. These will let you drive better and faster far more than any chassis/set up in the early stages. TX/RX and charger are lower priority items at this stage.

3. Get the same sets of tires and inserts that the fast guys are using. Ask, most people are happy to share.

Have a rocking good time! :blink::)

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