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Falcon#5

TA-03 question

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Gday all.

I finally decided to get my TA-03 running.

Put the electrics in, ran it around the house for a few seconds, and noticed smoke coming out of the motor.

I reset the mesh between the motor pinion and spur gear, using a piece of paper. As I thought the mesh may have been too tight.

Took it outside this time, after a few seconds, the motor became really hot again, plus the ESC.

Acceleration was quite slow I noticed too.

The electrics (Radio gear, ESC, Black Can, LiPo, steering servo) came from my Falcon, and that runs fine.

Even after half an hour solid running, it stayed stone cold.

The standard 23T drive pinion is fitted.

There does seem to be more resistance when turning the wheels by hand, compared to the Falcon.

Not sure if that is due to 4wd?

Ball diffs are new to me also.

When turning one wheel on a pinion diff, the other wheel turns backwards with no resistance.

On the ball diff, it still turns backwards, but with quite a bit of resistance.

Is this normal?

I'm at a loss, as I have no previous experience with these cars.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. B)

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That does seem strange, and agree that there has to be something wrong..

A 4wd vehicle will put more load or drag on the motor when compared to a 2wd vehicle, but not to the point of having a motor smoking hot after running for a "few" seconds..

What model TA03 do you have?? Its not a Pro or TRF version with FRP (Fiberglass) or carbon fibre chassis is it?? (I'm quite sure that the TA03 Pro / TRF cars like the David Jun had 0.4 module pinion gears, which is a finer pitch than the 0.6 module (AV pitch) pinion gears that the TA03 plastic tub cars had..)

YES, ball diffs are usually feel tighter than a gear diff when you turn them..

Does the car roll free when the pinion is removed..? If it doesnt, then something is obviously binding inside, and you will need to investigate further.. Try removing the belt, and checking each gearbox separately..

Let us know what you find..

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are your gears black plastic or white? Black = 0.6mod, White = 0.4mod Pro gears.

If you've got black gears then they can take 14-25t AV pinions, so 23 is very highly geared = too high for indoors.

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The first run around the house lasted about 30 secs.

Drove slowly to make sure the streering was straight, then did a few donuts before I noticed smoke coming out.

Re-meshed the pinion, took it outside and ran it for about 15-20 secs, checked it, and was pretty hot.

Then I did as Backlash suggested, and removed the pinion.

Still seemed tight to me.

Removed the drive belt, and seemed a lot better.

(But not as free as I imagine it should be)

So gave it another run outside for a minute or so with the belt removed. (Rwd)

Still got quite warm, but not as bad.

Brought it back inside, a few more donuts in the lounge room (my wife is visiting her sister interstate B) )

It threw a bit of molten metal out of the motor, now I have a dead motor and the house stinks like an electrical fire! :lol:

The car was second-hand, and seems to be a bitzer.

The manual is a TA-03R TRF, plus has pages from a TA-03R FRP and TA-03F FRP manual.

It came with a heap of parts, enough to build another car, so looks like both cars have been put together.

I took some pics when I first got it here.

Might be easier to look at the pics than for me to describe it.

There are no plastic chassis, just FRP.

Both upper decks seem to be TA-03F though.

The gears are white. Could that be the problem?

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How is it without the motor ? . Some times the motor get stuff in it , Dam magnet etc. when you have done that & if it's still tight then remove the rear diff & see what is going on .

Process of elimination , that's all it takes . Now if that don't work use a 10 ounce hammer B)

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Without the motor fitted my TA03s roll very smoothly and easily. They still roll quite easily with the brushless motors fitted (no magnet drag in the motor).

I'd check for a stuck bearing (fit them if you still have plastic bushings). Belt too tight (which you removed, so it's not that). Over-tightened wheel nuts causing the plastic drive hex to rub on the bearing sheild, or a cracked drive hex doing the same. These are a very simple gearbox with very little that can go wrong with them.

I must agree with WillyChang, way overgeared. I'm using 14 tooth to 16 tooth 0.6 module Robinson Racing steel pinions in mine. I tried a 21 tooth pinion with a 19 turn brushed motor once (before brushless came along) and cooked the motor and wires. It was very fast, but it didn't live long.

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how about a pic of what car looks like now?? ...pics of basketcase as when you got it ain't too relevant now i'd suspect

gearboxes are tough and can't think of anything that can jam them up, except for missing/exploded bearings.

white or black gears in box run exactly the same anyways, except for different pitch pinion needed

what belt pulleys are u using? ... and whereabouts is the motor, u running as an R or an F?

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I think I'll need to strip it, and rebuild it.

I wanted to do that anyway, but thought I'd give it a run first.

Can't post pics, as wife has taken the camera with her.

It looks the same as when I got it, have just fitted electronics, belt etc.

The motor is mounted in the rear, but will fit the front gearbox of the R when I rebuild it.

(So I can build the F car too)

Belt pulleys are 15T.

Is there a way to determine what pitch the drive pinion is?

Does seem to mesh ok, but is hard to see it properly though.

Could it be just overgeared? Would it get hot that quickly if it were?

I'll get some ball diff grease today, and start stripping it.

And let you know what I find! :huh:

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there's only 2 lengths of belt... std & SWB

R runs std belt with 15t pulleys, and a little bearing idler to run belt clear of the motor

F runs same belt with 16t pulleys, no idler

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I removed the motor and belt, and is quite free while pushing it along the ground.

Re-fitted the belt, and seems quite tight.

The rear wheels slide momentarily when I push it.

Is this normal?

I lifted the belt halfway between the pulleys, and had 12mm upwards movement.

Which I think would be ok?

The idler spins freely.

Quite frustrating.

I did stop in at my LHS and picked up a new motor pinion.

Smallest they had was 17T

I asked for a 0.4mod, but they gave me a 48P. Is that the same?

Appears to mesh with my existing motor pinion ok.

That's if the original was the right one to begin with.

I got a Robinson Racing Products pt#RRP 1117.

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nope (and a damned good reason why some LHS aren't worth going to anymore)

48dp is std/imperial measure

0.4mod is metric

the difference in teeth size between the 2 is so different even blind freddy would tell ya they won't work;

if that LHS even sold anything Tamiya they should be so ashamed they'd be better off selling knitting supplies

0.4mod is very close to 64dp, you may often get away with 64dp pinion if desperate but best not to

0.6mod is closer to 48dp but they cannot intermix, they'll chewup pretty quickly

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nope (and a damned good reason why some LHS aren't worth going to anymore)

48dp is std/imperial measure

0.4mod is metric

the difference in teeth size between the 2 is so different even blind freddy would tell ya they won't work;

if that LHS even sold anything Tamiya they should be so ashamed they'd be better off selling knitting supplies

0.4mod is very close to 64dp, you may often get away with 64dp pinion if desperate but best not to

0.6mod is closer to 48dp but they cannot intermix, they'll chewup pretty quickly

No one in Adelaide seems to sell Tamiya anymore.

The first shop I went to had some pinions that didn't even look close to what I wanted.

The second place I went is where I got the pinion from.

20+ years ago, I used to get Tamiya parts from there when I visited from the country.

They were good back then.

The packet says 'RRP 1117 48P metric 17T'

But on the back where the bar code is, it says '1117 pinion 17T 32 pitch metric (0.6mod)' :huh:

I looked up the part number on the net, and the description on the front of the packet matches.

The new pinion meshes with the old one, so is that one wrong too?

Could the combination of wrong pinion and over gearing cause the problems I have experienced?

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No one in Adelaide seems to sell Tamiya anymore.

The first shop I went to had some pinions that didn't even look close to what I wanted.

The second place I went is where I got the pinion from.

20+ years ago, I used to get Tamiya parts from there when I visited from the country.

They were good back then.

The packet says 'RRP 1117 48P metric 17T'

But on the back where the bar code is, it says '1117 pinion 17T 32 pitch metric (0.6mod)' :lol:

I looked up the part number on the net, and the description on the front of the packet matches.

The new pinion meshes with the old one, so is that one wrong too?

Could the combination of wrong pinion and over gearing cause the problems I have experienced?

Could the combination of wrong pinion and over gearing cause the problems I have experienced?

Yes ! plain & simple .

Over gearing will kill an engine , Some people gear there car for the straight & wonder why the motor is burning out . M8 of mine ( young & knows it all ) :huh: I always gear it for the corners , to get the best out of it & i find this is where races are won or lost . But that is MY opinion & some of you have your own idea of your setup . :lol:

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...The packet says 'RRP 1117 48P metric 17T'

But on the back where the bar code is, it says '1117 pinion 17T 32 pitch metric (0.6mod)' :huh:

I looked up the part number on the net, and the description on the front of the packet matches.

...

meh trust Robinson to confuse things, like they always do :lol:

if u want MORE confusion, Robinson also made a changeable 48dp spurgear

that fits onto their custom alloy TA03 adaptor to allow you to use 48dp pinions;

looks like this:-

DSC04598s.jpg

(only mentioning it 'cos sometimes you find RR spareparts for ^^ )

ok these are the "WHITE" gears = 0.4mod

IMG_0133.jpg

vs these "BLACK" gears = 0.6mod

DSC_8296-640.jpg

the only real difference really is the very first spur gear that the motor pinion drives

can't really mixup 0.4 vs 0.6 even if you had a bigboxstoreful of hammers...

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I worked out the problem.

I tried to mesh the motor pinion on the smaller, inner gear of the gearbox, not the larger, outer one - the spur gear. <_<

Yes, I'm a tool! ;)

The pitch of the 0.6 mod pinion made me think it went in that position.

If I had a 0.4 mod, I probably would've noticed where it was supposed to go.

Thanks for your help fellas. :unsure:

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I worked out the problem.

I tried to mesh the motor pinion on the smaller, inner gear of the gearbox, not the larger, outer one - the spur gear. ;)

Yes, I'm a tool! :unsure:

The pitch of the 0.6 mod pinion made me think it went in that position.

If I had a 0.4 mod, I probably would've noticed where it was supposed to go.

Thanks for your help fellas. B)

:wub:<_< No it's still :lol: how funny is that .

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I worked out the problem.

I tried to mesh the motor pinion on the smaller, inner gear of the gearbox, not the larger, outer one - the spur gear. <_<

Yes, I'm a tool! ;)

The pitch of the 0.6 mod pinion made me think it went in that position.

If I had a 0.4 mod, I probably would've noticed where it was supposed to go.

Thanks for your help fellas. :unsure:

You won't be the first, or the last !

At least you found the root cause - easy sailing now :wub:

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hahahahaha - Congratulations! first i've heard, i'll chalk ye up to be credited for that booboo <_<

last week it was discovering someone could actually put the little red sponge INSIDE the shock oil

DSC01581.jpg

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It certainly explains why I couldn't fit the C shaped motor mount and had difficulty tightening up the pinion. <_<

I feel better now seeing that someone had put the little sponges in the shock oil! ;)

Sounds like VTA class is starting up next month, so hopefully I can get the car sorted by then.

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I received an email today from a hobby shop in Melbourne, regarding a query as to whether they had 0.4 mod pinions available for sale.

They asked if a 0.4 mod was the same as 32dp. B)

Does anyone know where I can get one, or should I just post in the trade section of TC?

Cheers.

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I received an email today from a hobby shop in Melbourne, regarding a query as to whether they had 0.4 mod pinions available for sale.

They asked if a 0.4 mod was the same as 32dp. B)

Does anyone know where I can get one, or should I just post in the trade section of TC?

Cheers.

Do both as then you will get some thing & the knowledge & know how . :D

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0.4 Mod ≠ 32 DP, 0.4 is pretty close to 64 DP, on the other hand.

Ebay should have them.

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I'm having trouble finding 0.4mod pinions.

Should I just change to the black gears and use a 0.6?

Also, what LiPo will fit in it?

I can only just squeeze a 5000mAh Turnigy in it, but can't fit the battery clips on properly.

It is secure, but I'd rather a properly fitting one.

Cheers.

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