*** Dissatisfied with Tamiya petition ***

[Wandy 1527]

I wouldn't have bought any new models if it wasn't for Tamiyaclub.

That's ten grand or so right there......and I'm only one of many members who would have done exactly the same.

Tamiya owes Tamiyaclub big time. No doubt about it.

Same background for me.

There will be a huge number of people who say the same. To be honest it would not surprise me if over the last decade more than half a million quid has gone into their bank account directly because of TC.

[TWINSET 1793]

The last NIB Tamiya I bought was 2008, and that was from Stella, and I doubt I've ever contributed to the UK Tamiya sales market directly thru kits (bought a couple of NIBs from UK sellers on TC, but pretty sure they'd have come from Stella too)

[Wandy 1527]

The last NIB Tamiya I bought was 2008, and that was from Stella, and I doubt I've ever contributed to the UK Tamiya sales market directly thru kits (bought a couple of NIBs from UK sellers on TC, but pretty sure they'd have come from Stella too)

Thought you bought an Avante '11?

[TWINSET 1793]

Thought you bought an Avante '11?

Nope, but I do have one

[njmlondon 570]

That's an even easier one to answer because I can say with total honesty that without finding TC I would not have spent a penny of that £5K. I was not looking to get back into RC that day when bored & Googling the word "Tamiya". I was just looking to see what information was out there on the net. You could say that I ony discovered ebay because of TC too since once I had realised that vintage stuff was still available NIB I became something of an ebay junkie.

I can also say that the influence of the TC community has got me to appreciate and want cars that I initially never liked or understood the popularity. A classic case is the Scorcher, I only vaguely remember them from back in the day and was bemused to see that they were the Holy Grail of collectors items. With time though, viewing showrooms & watching videos I came to join the love-in.

Once I had got on the vintage trail I then started to take notice of other stuff and there are many kits that I have owned that never made it to my showroom, simply because I'm lazy and usually take an age to list the stuff I buy, but without finding TC I would never have bought stuff like a Dark Impact, Full Option Knight Hauler & various TT-01 kits.

100% agree with everything you said Wandy.

My experience was exactly the same. Back in 2002, bored at work, I was thinking about the fun things I had as a kid and I googled Scalextric, had a look at their new stuff and then googled "Tamiya Sand Scorcher". I was wondering whatever had happened to the company that had made the Sand Scorcher I had as a kid... turns out they had done rather well!

TC came up on the first page and I was sucked in by the fantastic community and amazing showrooms. This lead me to ebay and before I knew it I had bought a rather expensive old school NIB 959 (I always wanted a 959 but thought the Scorcher was not that good really.... not sure I am, allowed to say that on this site!)

Then I looked at the showrooms in TC. I had no idea there had been so many cars made and still being made. Whilst ebay dealers have definately had a lot of my cash, I have bought from my LHS a couple of Wild Willy 2's, a King Tiger Full Option, convinced my mate to buy a Full Option Tiger I and will be definately buying a re-re FAV and if they do a re-re 959 or Bruiser as #500 then I will be getting one of them too. So there is about £1,500-2,000 straight away that I would not have spent with Tamiya without TC.

[Wandy 1527]

100% agree with everything you said Wandy.

My experience was exactly the same. Back in 2002, bored at work, I was thinking about the fun things I had as a kid and I googled Scalextric, had a look at their new stuff and then googled "Tamiya Sand Scorcher". I was wondering whatever had happened to the company that had made the Sand Scorcher I had as a kid... turns out they had done rather well!

TC came up on the first page and I was sucked in by the fantastic community and amazing showrooms. This lead me to ebay and before I knew it I had bought a rather expensive old school NIB 959 (I always wanted a 959 but thought the Scorcher was not that good really.... not sure I am, allowed to say that on this site!)

Then I looked at the showrooms in TC. I had no idea there had been so many cars made and still being made. Whilst ebay dealers have definately had a lot of my cash, I have bought from my LHS a couple of Wild Willy 2's, a King Tiger Full Option, convinced my mate to buy a Full Option Tiger I and will be definately buying a re-re FAV and if they do a re-re 959 or Bruiser as #500 then I will be getting one of them too. So there is about £1,500-2,000 straight away that I would not have spent with Tamiya without TC.

Excellent mate, many of us have the same similar story to tell.

I'm hoping 58500 is a Bruiser too, or something equally high end; it will make for a nice Xmas prezzie.

[442xcar 2]

I wonder why Tamiya slammed TC for decals and manuals, but said nothing about using the the "Tamiya" trademark in the TC name? Hmmmm. Seems there is some very selective copyright enforcement going on here. Let's see. Take away decals and manuals, but let the site promote sales of their products by using the company name? One way streets are paved with bricks made of greed. What has Tamiya ever done to promote the site? Ever seen the company sponsor one of the contests? Ever donated any "swag"? To anyone? They allow direct links to their distribution network from the TC site, but where is the link from there to TC? TC still seems to have their nose up Tamiya's (badword) even though they've been punked by Tamiya. Sad I was affilliated with a group that that would stand for this kind of treatment from a greedy, selfish, and self centered company. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me. Go take a hike Mr. Tamiya...........

[TWINSET 1793]

I wonder why Tamiya slammed TC for decals and manuals, but said nothing about using the the "Tamiya" trademark in the TC name? Hmmmm. Seems there is some very selective copyright enforcement going on here. Let's see. Take away decals and manuals, but let the site promote sales of their products by using the company name? One way streets are paved with bricks made of greed. What has Tamiya ever done to promote the site? Ever seen the company sponsor one of the contests? Ever donated any "swag"? To anyone? They allow direct links to their distribution network from the TC site, but where is the link from there to TC? TC still seems to have their nose up Tamiya's (badword) even though they've been punked by Tamiya. Sad I was affilliated with a group that that would stand for this kind of treatment from a greedy, selfish, and self centered company. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me. Go take a hike Mr. Tamiya...........

Tamiyaclub was never setup to promote or advertise Tamiya, it was setup because Netsmith liked Tamiya's stuff enough to start a 'fansite' for like-minded individuals to join.

Whether Tamiya benefit from the club's existence or not is irrelevant to the existence of the club.

Tamiyaclub doesn't have it's nose up anything of Tamiya's - there is no connection, affiliation or relationship with Tamiya, except for the name.

Tamiya has never done anything to promote TC and, in case you missed it, it's never needed it anyway - 36,700+ members over the last 9 or 10 years have found TC without any assistance from Tamiya, and no doubt a few more that haven't become members.

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

I'm sure most of us have this story of being sucked back into the Tamiya dream when we stumbled onto this site. I know I wouldnt've bothered getting back into Tamiya if it weren't for the existence of TC. I was heavily into my other hobby, paintball (which, by the way, has been left to gather dust thanks to my RC projects), at the time so I know that I wouldn't be into RC's again today if it wasn't for this excellent site and forum.

What Tamiya has done is so demoralising and depressing to me. I don't know about everyone else but the last few weeks I haven't been able to get on as I had done before. I've bought a few used bits from other TC members and via eBay but I couldn't get enthused about it. Even today I was looking at my half done projects and just couldn't get started. Tamiya has really knocked the wind out of me. Now that the decent repro decals are gone from just about everywhere I'm at a loss as to whether or not these projects can be finished. I'm sure I'll recover and get back to it but at the moment things are looking kinda bleak at my end.

I believe that TamiyaClub deserves some gratitude and/or respect from Tamiya but I don't think they will give either because they don't understand how the people on here feel. What they've done feels like a betrayal. I understand that repro decals and parts are counterfeiting but what alternative have they given us? If they could release some reprints of the original decals and/or manuals from the first 150, without any changes to logos and other livery, or perhaps with an increase in quality (which we know can be done thanks to tamiyoman's excellent vector reworkings), at a reasonable price, then we wouldn't have much cause to grumble. If they'd released them then told TC to stop then we would've been happy. The main point is that they've done what they've done and, despite them being in the right, they've done it without offering us an alternative or even a reason (not that they were obligated to give anyone a reason). Perhaps they think what they do is more than enough, that their supply exceeds our demands, or that we should just be grateful that they're re-releasing anything at all? Who knows? Who cares? In the end it's the buyer who chooses to keep things going or not. While others will continue to buy and support Tamiya I've already cancelled my plans to buy the new releases I'd wanted. I haven't chosen this course solely because of the recent Tamiya clamp down but I can tell you that their recent actions did tip the scale away from their favour. I'd wanted to buy a VDF Gold kit, a Super Fighter GR, another Avante 2011, a Sand Scorcher 2010, a TA06Pro with all the Hop Ups, and model 58500 if it's a vintage 3 Speed. How much would that've been to them, regardless of which country I'd bought them from? Don't get me wrong. I won't drop Tamiya altogether, far from it as I love my Tamiya RCs. I'll continue my vintage projects (maybe even finish them one day ) but I'm going to stay away from the new stuff until Tamiya offer up some proper reprints of the decals. That's unlikely to happen, I know, but then people used to say that the Sand Scorcher would never be re-released.

And I'll still support TC because it's not TC's fault that they've gotten so big, have such a following etc., that Tamiya was able to notice and shoot us down. The manuals weren't that big a deal to me but were a nice bonus on top of the showroom space I'd wanted and all the advice from the community I'd sought. I hadn't bought any of the TC repro decals but they were a nice option that I was definitely going to take advantage of at some point. The fact that the decals were there was a deciding factor on whether or not I started my Sand Scorcher, Rough Rider and Monster Beetle projects. They were there so I started on those projects but now they're gone so now my shells will be even slower to complete. I just hope that Tamiya will one day allow TC to do their decals again.

BTW is there any chance of there being a sheet of TamiyaClub decals in different sizes? Until then if they could be cut from the TC repro sheets I'd be interested in having some.

[TamiyaDan 8]

.

[HunterZero 76]

With all respect, some of you guys really are over-reacting to this. Really guys, repro decals and manual scans were a useful part of this site, but a small part in the scheme of things.

While TamiyaClub can definitely take a lot of the blame for my Tamiya re-addiction (almost as much blame as eBay!), I can honestly say that it would not have been any different had the manuals and repro decals never been available on TamiyaClub or elsewhere. I still would have spent just as much on this hobby.

In fact, I had a bad experience with poor quality repro decals once (not from TamiyaClub, of course)...

What has made TamiyaClub a great site is the community. Whether it's passionate discussion on the forums, the reaction in the forums to rumours and news of re-res, the showrooms, seeing other people's amazing vintage finds, watching shining examples of Tamiya cars emerge from old wrecks, and the organised vintage car meets with lots of photos of fellow Tamiya freaks enjoying their cars.

THAT is the enjoyment of Tamiya. THAT is the enjoyment of this site.

- James

[matman 1499]

That's an even easier one to answer because I can say with total honesty that without finding TC I would not have spent a penny of that £5K. I was not looking to get back into RC that day when bored & Googling the word "Tamiya". I was just looking to see what information was out there on the net. You could say that I ony discovered ebay because of TC too since once I had realised that vintage stuff was still available NIB I became something of an ebay junkie.

I can also say that the influence of the TC community has got me to appreciate and want cars that I initially never liked or understood the popularity. A classic case is the Scorcher, I only vaguely remember them from back in the day and was bemused to see that they were the Holy Grail of collectors items. With time though, viewing showrooms & watching videos I came to join the love-in.

Once I had got on the vintage trail I then started to take notice of other stuff and there are many kits that I have owned that never made it to my showroom, simply because I'm lazy and usually take an age to list the stuff I buy, but without finding TC I would never have bought stuff like a Dark Impact, Full Option Knight Hauler & various TT-01 kits.

You have hit the nail on the head there . 100% with you .

I have been spending BiggGGGGGGG Money in tamiya in the last month or so since i joyed TC . Then bam get shot in the head with whats happening . Ok back in 2002 i did

see TC & keeped looking in now & then , But didn't join ( DAMMM dial up back then ) . As you can see why i didn't go further than that .

Two or so months ago i remembered TC as i was looking at putting a RC together , But didn't have the manual . So i looked it up & well do i need to say more ??.

As i have been sick , with blood clots etc . I have alot of time on my hands . That's all that needs to be said

I looked at the manual medium sized as it was free & went fantastic got what i needed . Then looked at some of the show rooms etc & wanted IN .

So i signed up & as a bonus you got bigger manuals & at the end of the day the manuals were free . You still got to see them , just the bigger ones were better quality . ( It was still free )

I didn't see it as you pay & you get better manuals as in size as at the end of the day you still got to see them FREE in two sizes .

I put it as how would you feel if you had some one , making money off your company . ( discount the government ) . I bet you would have to do some thing so you keep putting

food on the table & not theres . ? .

This IS the greatest site out there , with or without the manuals & repo stickers . I'm sure they will turn up now & again on the net any way .

Well all i can say is THANKS TC . You have done your best in this Sitchuation .

[matman 1499]

With all respect, some of you guys really are over-reacting to this. Really guys, repro decals and manual scans were a useful part of this site, but a small part in the scheme of things.

While TamiyaClub can definitely take a lot of the blame for my Tamiya re-addiction (almost as much blame as eBay!), I can honestly say that it would not have been any different had the manuals and repro decals never been available on TamiyaClub or elsewhere. I still would have spent just as much on this hobby.

In fact, I had a bad experience with poor quality repro decals once (not from TamiyaClub, of course)...

What has made TamiyaClub a great site is the community. Whether it's passionate discussion on the forums, the reaction in the forums to rumours and news of re-res, the showrooms, seeing other people's amazing vintage finds, watching shining examples of Tamiya cars emerge from old wrecks, and the organised vintage car meets with lots of photos of fellow Tamiya freaks enjoying their cars.

THAT is the enjoyment of Tamiya. THAT is the enjoyment of this site.

- James

WELL said .

[SteelRat 46]

With all respect, some of you guys really are over-reacting to this. Really guys, repro decals and manual scans were a useful part of this site, but a small part in the scheme of things.

While TamiyaClub can definitely take a lot of the blame for my Tamiya re-addiction (almost as much blame as eBay!), I can honestly say that it would not have been any different had the manuals and repro decals never been available on TamiyaClub or elsewhere. I still would have spent just as much on this hobby.

In fact, I had a bad experience with poor quality repro decals once (not from TamiyaClub, of course)...

What has made TamiyaClub a great site is the community. Whether it's passionate discussion on the forums, the reaction in the forums to rumours and news of re-res, the showrooms, seeing other people's amazing vintage finds, watching shining examples of Tamiya cars emerge from old wrecks, and the organised vintage car meets with lots of photos of fellow Tamiya freaks enjoying their cars.

THAT is the enjoyment of Tamiya. THAT is the enjoyment of this site.

- James

Spot on James. Very well said, and something that needed saying.

It's not Tamiya that makes or breaks this club, its the members.

[slimmy 0]

I can't believe tamiya would do this to such loyal lovers of there products. I will never buy another rerelease kit or part or anything else from tamiya. Unless its a vintage part from an individual. Tamiya needs to step up and make the products we need. If they don't want to make them, they got no right telling others they can't. Whats a matter tamiya? Afraid someone else is gonna make a dollar off your name. What about all the tamiya loyal people on this club and all the money they have spent making you rich. I think tamiya is the one who is not loyal! I feel betrayed

[SteelRat 46]

Isn't boycotting Tamiya kit because of this just cutting your nose to spite your face?

Are you seriously telling me that if a kit is re-re'd that you've always loved you're going to say "well, I'm not buying that. **** Tamiya bullies".

Are you that self absorbed that you think it's going to make the slightest bit of difference even if you do?

Puh-leeease!

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

I feel betrayed

I knew I wasn't the only one.

Are you seriously telling me that if a kit is re-re'd that you've always loved you're going to say "well, I'm not buying that. **** Tamiya bullies".

I think a lot of us are thinking this way at the moment. It doesn't mean that we all won't cool down and change our minds but what it more than likely means is that if it's re-re'd then some of us will go after the original we loved and not the NIB re-re.

It is done, it should therefore be dusted and we should all move on. TC is still here, the club is still great and we all still love Tamiya despite what we might add on here to the contrary

I agree. I think we should all try to move on and just take the time to cool off over this subject. What we post on here won't make any difference to Tamiya now. More importantly it won't change how we feel about the models we've enjoyed before this happened. It'll affect how (or if) we restore our models from this day on but we'll still love what's ours. We'll still have this community... won't we?

[442xcar 2]

Given the low number of 'yes' votes though, it would appear not many people care enough to vote anyway - If 85 (at time of typing) is the maximum they've upset, it's a drop in their ocean.

It'd be interesting to know how many of those 85 will honestly never buy another Tamiya product again ever though.

I won't be cutting my nose off to spite my face - If Tamiya produce something that warrants dishing out my cash, they'll get my cash

Like I said early on in this topic, China is gearing up to exploit this blunder by Tamiya. I've already seen the begginings of a flood of repro decals from HK and mainland China. Copyrights? Ha! Look at the F103 knock offs out there. Who sells more 1/16 Tanks? Heng Long or Tamiya? Duh! Tamiya used to get my dollars because I respected the quality. This recent attitude change towards the foundation of old Tamiya loyalists has changed not only mine, but many others opinions. The re-re wave drove away the Uber collectors. This copyright enforcement against vintage out of production items will drive away the core of TC. RIGHT NOW, there is a worker in the central mainland, working for rice and a dorm room, who will make everything you need for pennies. Take that MR Tamiya........... What copyright.......

[442xcar 2]

I can't believe tamiya would do this to such loyal lovers of there products. I will never buy another rerelease kit or part or anything else from tamiya. Unless its a vintage part from an individual. Tamiya needs to step up and make the products we need. If they don't want to make them, they got no right telling others they can't. Whats a matter tamiya? Afraid someone else is gonna make a dollar off your name. What about all the tamiya loyal people on this club and all the money they have spent making you rich. I think tamiya is the one who is not loyal! I feel betrayed

I'm with you Brother!

[TWINSET 1793]

This copyright enforcement against vintage out of production items will drive away the core of TC.

Really? the whole core?

To put it into 'core-relative' perspective, 97 members have contributed to this thread and not all of them are anti.

As has already been posted, anyone with a working knowledge of internet search engines can probably track down these elusive decals quite easily,

There are also various internet areas (or sites, as I believe they're called) where the manuals are still hosted (stored online) too, again, a search engine is a fantastic resource for tracking such sites down.

The only real impact for people that don't venture beyond TC is that it's no longer permitted to advertise them or share info on where to source them here - all Tamiya have really done is make 'em a bit harder to find.

I find it hard to comprehend how you can criticise Tamiya for clamping down on copyright infringements where they can then, in the same sentence, say there's already a problem with it happening in China.

Tamiya used to get my dollars because I respected the quality.

Perhaps that's part of their reputation they're keen to protect by not having loads of repro decals fading or falling off and unsuspecting buyers thinking they're originals!

[Wandy 1527]

Personally speaking I've said my piece, vented off some steam and now it's really time to move on. Yeah perhaps things were getting out of hand and action needed to be taken but the way they dealt with TC could & should have been handled better and all this has done is highlight to anyone that was previously in the dark that their customer relations aren't up to scratch.

At this moment in time I have no clear idea whether this will affect any possible future purchase but for the forseeable it definitely won't. I'm now looking forward to getting my hands on the FAV in 6 or 7 weeks time.

The loss of manuals & decals has taken almost nothing of value away from the enjoyment of this fan club IMO. We are still allowed to use individual jpegs of build steps from manuals in the forums to provide answers to questions and that is when they have always been of the most use to me.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

I look at it this way... It's the PR / Marketting / Legal department / Chairman that have taken this decision at Tamiya. The people who ACTUALLY MAKE the moulds (the craftsmen) and the guy who designed (most?) of the models that we adore (Fumito Taki) didn't make this decision.

Thus for me, the people who actually care about the models that they make at Tamiya have no connection with this decision to send threatening letters of legal action to TC and repro. decal sellers.

So in my mind I can buy the kits knowing that they have been crafted with thought and care. So I'm still sticking with buying the Tamiya kits that I adore.

You won't stop me restoring vintage models Mr. Tamiya. LOL.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[442xcar 2]

There are also various internet areas (or sites, as I believe they're called) where the manuals are still hosted (stored online) too, again, a search engine is a fantastic resource for tracking such sites down.

Yes, and they are still hosting this service because they don't charge a (membership i.e. revenue source) fee to utilize the service. I think this is Tamiya's main issue with TC. Specifically, The exchange of money to access Tamiya's copyrighted material. That in a nutshell is my main complaint with TC. Removal of a service that was the main reason for being a paid member. Tamiyabase is still hosting superior manual scans for free, with apparently no conflict from Tamiya. Why? Because that site only accepts "donations", rather than a mandatory Fee. The only drawback to that great site is it is limited to the first 100 kits.

The only real impact for people that don't venture beyond TC is that it's no longer permitted to advertise them or share info on where to source them here - all Tamiya have really done is make 'em a bit harder to find.

This really only applies to second parties outside Corporate Tamiya who are profiting from their property. It's all a moot point on infringements coming from continental China.

I find it hard to comprehend how you can criticise Tamiya for clamping down on copyright infringements where they can then, in the same sentence, say there's already a problem with it happening in China.

Perhaps that's part of their reputation they're keen to protect by not having loads of repro decals fading or falling off and unsuspecting buyers thinking they're originals!

I don't buy the Chinese rip-offs. Don't even give them a second look. To quote you, Tamiya is clamping down where they can (TamiyaClub.com) and similar operations that have profited for years without obstruction by Tamiya.

As stated earlier in this thread, my main gripe is paying TC for a service that I'm no longer receiving. No mention on compensation from TC. Just they same ol' "smoke and mirrors" of "well, it was good while it lasted". What? What about the services I "purchased" with my membership, that I'm no longer receiving? The problem the club is having with Tamiya is all centered on the revenue stream TC enjoys in part from copyrighted products from Tamiya. Bam! Case closed........... Greed....

[TWINSET 1793]

As stated earlier in this thread, my main gripe is paying TC for a service that I'm no longer receiving. No mention on compensation from TC. Just they same ol' "smoke and mirrors" of "well, it was good while it lasted". What? What about the services I "purchased" with my membership, that I'm no longer receiving? The problem the club is having with Tamiya is all centered on the revenue stream TC enjoys in part from copyrighted products from Tamiya. Bam! Case closed........... Greed....

If you feel your subscription is no longer supplying what you paid for, email Netsmith for a refund - Your remaining subscription fees will be refunded and your subscription ended - No Greed, simple refund of remaining subscription.

If you have trouble contacting him, drop me a PM with all your details on and I'll chase him for you - all part of the service offered to subscribers.

[tamman77 1]

As stated earlier in this thread, my main gripe is paying TC for a service that I'm no longer receiving. No mention on compensation from TC. Just they same ol' "smoke and mirrors" of "well, it was good while it lasted". What? What about the services I "purchased" with my membership, that I'm no longer receiving? The problem the club is having with Tamiya is all centered on the revenue stream TC enjoys in part from copyrighted products from Tamiya. Bam! Case closed........... Greed....

Well a rare post from me on it's way........ I don't agree with what Tamiya has done but i can see why, as for Tamiya Club i'll be paying for my next lot just as soon as i can, there's a community here ready to help with any questions and that goes way beyond some manuals for me.

For me Chris has consistanly shown himself to be fair and has to consider the wider picture, and i for one think that he has taken the right course of action with this, it's a complete no-brainer. While i'm being nice fair play to mods as well, i've had trades etc deleted and im sure we are all a cause for much pain in the ..... erm something that will be deleted

Anything else is up to you, you want, you search, you will find.