bromvw

Time Tamiya Lifted its game

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I think that saying that Tamiya only design for their home market is what is really at the heart of this debate . My view is that if they want to grow their market share and increase sales oversea's then they need to 'lift their game ' and start building what the overseas buyer actually wants . Tamiya have a long history of inovation but can anyone honestly say that they have given us anything truely original in recent years that didnt look like some space age rocket and nowhere near the scale ' suitable for radio control ' highly realistic designs that Tamiya built its company on ?

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I think that saying that Tamiya only design for their home market is what is really at the heart of this debate . My view is that if they want to grow their market share and increase sales oversea's then they need to 'lift their game ' and start building what the overseas buyer actually wants . Tamiya have a long history of inovation but can anyone honestly say that they have given us anything truely original in recent years that didnt look like some space age rocket and nowhere near the scale ' suitable for radio control ' highly realistic designs that Tamiya built its company on ?

I can only point to previous posts of this kind and I could not agree more with you!

Tamiya has lost ground and they have to get their act together to come back on level number 1. Their chassis never were flawless and competition seems to be better in many aspects.

Thank you Tamiya for designing imperfect kits (and I don't talk fancy top notch designs, I talk imperfections purely insulting the non-expert builder e.g. large play in axle bolts, bearing, suspension and steering components, weakness of structure using wrong materials or wrong designs etc....)

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...My view is that if they want to grow their market share and increase sales oversea's then they need to 'lift their game ' and start building what the overseas buyer actually wants .

for all you know... maybe they DON'T want to sell more o/s :)

distribution chain to move product o/s via independent distributors into a retail network has many inefficiencies,

everybody wants their own bigger cut of the pie with high pressure on factory to sell cheaper & cheaper.

JPYen has risen heaps lately so o/s buyers would be yelling even louder come next Shizouka show.

perhaps they actually make better % profit on local sales, even with the crazy discounts Japanese stores offer

think also... do we really want T to be sanitised & assimilated until its safely fit for general worldwide consumption?

It'll end up something like the Honda Accord... started life loaded innovative technology (CVCC! 5spd! in 1976)

along the years it got redesigned & neutered as a "world model" to become everything to everyone

now its just another inoffensive grocerygetter that might excite only a rearward-peering accountant.

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Tamiya have a long history of inovation but can anyone honestly say that they have given us anything truely original in recent years that didnt look like some space age rocket and nowhere near the scale ' suitable for radio control ' highly realistic designs that Tamiya built its company on ?

I'm confused - do you want a radio controlled scale model (like the re-releases) or a scale shell on a modern chassis (like the XC range, BF III, SR 2011, HB 2010) or something 'original' which leaves them the space-age/manga market or touring cars

What exactly is it you're looking for Tamiya to release that's 'original'?

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well they haven't done a Visible Man/Woman kit yet... but Revell's been there already so it ain't original no more

as for wheeled models, we've already got 3/4/6/4x2/6x4 wheels which leaves only a bicycle or unicycle

construction equipment already done by Kyosho

submarine? although Tomy already did

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So that leaves us with a 2.4ghz Pterodactyl or an 1/8 scale alimentary canal with blue aluminium oesophagus

Personally, I'd hold out for these in 1/4 scale; http://tinyurl.com/0000hyeah

They could call it the HipBuster - "Going nuts is inevitable" :)

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The longer I live here the more I see that Tamiya does not worry about overseas,and the stick with what they like and what is popular here in Japan.

There isnt a model that Tamiya makes that you cant trace back to Japan interest and booms in popularity of RC and real cars.

Um, what about the american big rigs s and the 1/16 scale RC tanks ?? Tamiya have obviously poured a lot of resources into these models and they are tamiyas most expensive models. From your previous posts I take it that these are not popular in Japan as you did not mention them in your list of popular model types. There seems to be a flaw in the logic somewhere.......

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The longer I live here the more I see that Tamiya does not worry about overseas,and the stick with what they like and what is popular here in Japan.

Not surprising given the complaints, over-reaction and lack of perspective ("purely insulting" builders with imperfections? Get a grip). From my perspective, I wonder why many on the re-re forum don't just exit Tamiya altogether. They're clearly exasperated by the brand, and obviously don't derive much pleasure out of it. What they want is a very high-speed, turbocharged short course truck or a crawler or something that Tamiya specifically doesn't make, and I wonder why they don't just buy one of those from the handful of brands that specialise in them.

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Not surprising given the complaints, over-reaction and lack of perspective ("purely insulting" builders with imperfections? Get a grip). From my perspective, I wonder why many on the re-re forum don't just exit Tamiya altogether. They're clearly exasperated by the brand, and obviously don't derive much pleasure out of it. What they want is a very high-speed, turbocharged short course truck or a crawler or something that Tamiya specifically doesn't make, and I wonder why they don't just buy one of those from the handful of brands that specialise in them.

For me personally the major reason I don't move on to other manufacturers is that I already have a large spares hoard for tamiya cars in the form of nuts bolts, interchangeable parts, etc. Also most american models use non metric bolts and dimensions when making their vehicles, making it a PITA when trying to modify them. At least with tamiya they generally build their cars to metric sizes, making it easier to determine accurate dimensions from measurement.

As others have said, tamiya at the moment seem to be concentrating on their road car business, which make sense if that is where the easy profit is in their local market.

That doesn't stop me from wishing for some effort from them in the future in their off road market, other than re-marketing older models. The Hi-Lift chassis showed relatively recently that tamiya bring out new designs and original models, but that was 4/5 years ago. Yes, there is a degree of exasperation, as I have seen in the past that tamiya can make very high quality, original kits. However, the high lift was released a long time ago and there have been relatively few truly new models in the off road area since then. It would be good to see some further effort from T in this sort of area. Even a cheaper version of the one of the HiLifts with a bit more performance in mind, perhaps with a single speed box and 4 links (Which the hilift axle sprue even includes adapters for attaching 4 links to the axles) would be a good start. I'd also point out that the quality does seem to be going downhill. I had to attack my jagdpanther chassis with a file in order to get the gearboxes to fit without the axles fouling, and have also received distorted components in models where they have been removed from the moulds badly.

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For me personally the major reason I don't move on to other manufacturers is that I already have a large spares hoard for tamiya cars in the form of nuts bolts, interchangeable parts, etc. Also most american models use non metric bolts and dimensions when making their vehicles, making it a PITA when trying to modify them. At least with tamiya they generally build their cars to metric sizes, making it easier to determine accurate dimensions from measurement.

As others have said, tamiya at the moment seem to be concentrating on their road car business, which make sense if that is where the easy profit is in their local market.

That doesn't stop me from wishing for some effort from them in the future in their off road market, other than re-marketing older models. The Hi-Lift chassis showed relatively recently that tamiya bring out new designs and original models, but that was 4/5 years ago. Yes, there is a degree of exasperation, as I have seen in the past that tamiya can make very high quality, original kits. However, the high lift was released a long time ago and there have been relatively few truly new models in the off road area since then. It would be good to see some further effort from T in this sort of area. Even a cheaper version of the one of the HiLifts with a bit more performance in mind, perhaps with a single speed box and 4 links (Which the hilift axle sprue even includes adapters for attaching 4 links to the axles) would be a good start. I'd also point out that the quality does seem to be going downhill. I had to attack my jagdpanther chassis with a file in order to get the gearboxes to fit without the axles fouling, and have also received distorted components in models where they have been removed from the moulds badly.

I think they wanted the Cr-01 to fill that gap of a new generation scale vehicle. Look at it with a Land Cruiser shell on and its a very nice model. Its got some room for development and the suspension is a bit dodgy but it's a good chassis for any scale truck project. Might be worth looking in that area and modding the gearing until the big T produce a new off roader?

Also the re re market isn't the problem here, a huge amount of people love re re and its a cheap way of people reliving childhood memories. Nostalgia sells so think of Re re as R&D funding.

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Um, what about the american big rigs s and the 1/16 scale RC tanks ?? Tamiya have obviously poured a lot of resources into these models and they are tamiyas most expensive models. From your previous posts I take it that these are not popular in Japan as you did not mention them in your list of popular model types. There seems to be a flaw in the logic somewhere.......

tanks have been done for the past 50yrs

American & Euro big rigs are common feature in Asia as the japanese UD, Hino etc mainly do light-medium duty chassis.

Most heavy haulage still feature MACK, Volvo, Scania, MAN etc once you're looking for over 500hp.

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Irony: Not something you do to take the creases out of your clothes.

I buy non-iron required clothing and the irony is why some people still think the sun sets in the west and rises in the east.

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Haven't you heard? The TRF201 is known as the "Metric B4". It is a quality bit of kit and IS right at home on the track alongside RB5's, B4's and 22's.

I thought the "metric" B4 was the Ansmann X-Pro?

The bottom line is this:

My first car was a Boomerang,raced it for two years and loved it,then replaced it with an Optima Mid Custom

(now caning a souped up Mardave Cobra about),but what a revelation that was.

Much smoother,quicker,responsive and tuneable compared to the old Boomer and very capable of squabbling

with the all-conquering CATs on the track.

I don't race anymore(hence the souped up Cobra),but if I wanted a slow heavy classic basher then I'd maybe go for the Boomer

(no re-re OMC yet,come on Kyosho!!),but if I wanted a much more fiesty basher that I could tune

the pants off,put a brushless/lipo into really throw the mud and dust up, then I'm afraid that my money

wouldn't go on a TRF201,it'd be a B4/4.1,TLR 22 or,yes,maybe the Ansmann Mad Rat/X-Pro.

From what I'm hearing,the Mad Rat is an awsome bit of kit for the money(£65-£70 with bearings!!!),

highly tuneable for not much money and can be turned into a pretty good racer for not a lot more.

Can Tamiya make a car(for the European market of course) of that spec.with that potential for a starting price of £65-£70?.

Tamiya is for slow and dependable.

Associated,Losi,Durango,X-Factory,Schumacher,Ansmann,etc,they're for the racers/fast bashers.

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I thought the "metric" B4 was the Ansmann X-Pro?

The bottom line is this:

My first car was a Boomerang,raced it for two years and loved it,then replaced it with an Optima Mid Custom

(now caning a souped up Mardave Cobra about),but what a revelation that was.

Much smoother,quicker,responsive and tuneable compared to the old Boomer and very capable of squabbling

with the all-conquering CATs on the track.

I don't race anymore(hence the souped up Cobra),but if I wanted a slow heavy classic basher then I'd maybe go for the Boomer

(no re-re OMC yet,come on Kyosho!!),but if I wanted a much more fiesty basher that I could tune

the pants off,put a brushless/lipo into really throw the mud and dust up, then I'm afraid that my money

wouldn't go on a TRF201,it'd be a B4/4.1,TLR 22 or,yes,maybe the Ansmann Mad Rat/X-Pro.

From what I'm hearing,the Mad Rat is an awsome bit of kit for the money(£65-£70 with bearings!!!),

highly tuneable for not much money and can be turned into a pretty good racer for not a lot more.

Can Tamiya make a car(for the European market of course) of that spec.with that potential for a starting price of £65-£70?.

Tamiya is for slow and dependable.

Associated,Losi,Durango,X-Factory,Schumacher,Ansmann,etc,they're for the racers/fast bashers.

The Mad Rat is a lottery. Some are great, some are hair tearers. Occasionally shoddy and horrible to put together. I really hope Tamiya DON'T follow Ansmanns example in that regard.

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I buy non-iron required clothing and the irony is why some people still think the sun sets in the west and rises in the east.

Waffle. Missed the point. Again.

The irony is that you're as guilty of a polarised view as anyone.

Then you comment about a global company who's only looking after the interests of it's native country and go on about where the sun sets.

One thing I can tell you; where it sets and resides certainly isn't the same place you're talking from.

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Waffle. Missed the point. Again.

The irony is that you're as guilty of a polarised view as anyone.

Then you comment about a global company who's only looking after the interests of it's native country and go on about where the sun sets.

One thing I can tell you; where it sets and resides certainly isn't the same place you're talking from.

Dude, you have been reading carefully and there is no right answer. The point is, if you like re-re, the last year or so have been great. If you prefer new releases, than not so good. Global Company do make product cater locally and do try to make product that are universally appealing. Notice Tamiya does some re-release like the Taisan Porsche body for its home turf only and not globally? The same reason Taimiya USA has the CC Jeep currently available. Is like politicians always treats his home turf better wth more pork barrel project, even he is a federally elected. Bottom line my comment is Tamiya knows what its doing and I agree with it.

As for sun rise and sun set... the truth is the sun never set or rise, it has been shinning for the last billions of year, it is the rotation of the earth. Did you know that?

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Tamiya New Product Development #1: "LOL! read this forum http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=64045,

them baka gaijin say want something new but totally have no idea what they want huuhuuhuuhuu"

Tamiya New Product Development #2: "ah so desu... just sell them more old junk keep them quiet. How's those Striker molds looking?"

ugeek.gif

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them baka gaijin say want something new but totally have no idea what they want huuhuuhuuhuu"

Who you calling gaijin? :)

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Dude, you have been reading carefully and there is no right answer. The point is, if you like re-re, the last year or so have been great. If you prefer new releases, than not so good. Global Company do make product cater locally and do try to make product that are universally appealing. Notice Tamiya does some re-release like the Taisan Porsche body for its home turf only and not globally? The same reason Taimiya USA has the CC Jeep currently available. Is like politicians always treats his home turf better wth more pork barrel project, even he is a federally elected. Bottom line my comment is Tamiya knows what its doing and I agree with it.

Believe it or not, I agree with you from the point of view of the fact that I don't think there's anything wrong with what Tamiya are doing by concentrating more on the on-road market; scale bodies and realism have always been something they've been good at, and in this day and age the on-road truck, drift and touring car markets are good areas for them to excel. Additionally the off road market appears to be more concerned with "how far / high can I jump this car without wrecking it" than it is about how realistic it looks, so I can understand why Tamiya might move away from that. That's not to say that scale realism isn't something that people want, I'm saying that for a large part of the market, it's not the main focus. So long as it'll do back flips, jump over houses and leap 50ft in the air and back on the ground then carry on going again, if it has a shell that vaguely resembles some sort of real world vehicle, generally people are happy. Obviously Traxxas and HPI have that market sewn up, so if Tamiya are good at areas where that sort of thing isn't required, why would they need to try and erode in to it?

As for the re-re's, they are obviously being sold to appeal to people like the members of this club. Nostalgic nods to the kind of cars that made Tamiya the name in RC that it has. The problem is because the members of this club tend to be made up of exactly the kinds of people that bought those old cars, its view point is skewed by that, so if Tamiya releases a re-re that's a bit naff, lots of people on this club think that Tamiyas going about things all wrong and threads like this one come up. That said, I think if you're going to do a re-release of an iconic model that made you what you are, at least do it properly, or don't do it at all.

I don't think any of this has that much to do with what is or isn't popular in Japan (although I concede that will be a consideration, as you won't want to alienate your home market!), and as has already been said Tamiya isn't just a Japanese company, it's a global one. Remember the phrase from the old promo videos? "Tamiya: First in quality around the world"

As for sun rise and sun set... the truth is the sun never set or rise, it has been shinning for the last billions of year, it is the rotation of the earth. Did you know that?

Yes. Did you know Jupiters moon Io is so close to Jupiter and the other three large Jovian moons of Europa, Ganymede and Callisto that the constant gravitational forces exerted on it mean that it's the most actively volcanic body in the solar system?

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The Mad Rat is a lottery. Some are great, some are hair tearers. Occasionally shoddy and horrible to put together. I really hope Tamiya DON'T follow Ansmanns example in that regard.

There was one batch of Madrats (the very first) that had gearbox plate that could get stripped if you overtightened it. Ansmann sent a fix free of charge to everyone who had done this, and then modified the plate so it is even tougher. My TRF201 had a dodgy gearbox. Did Tamiya send me a replacement.. no of course not.. I just had to go an buy one and the extra parts that it damaged when it shattered.

You might have had a bad experience with your one, but there are lots of people who have them and they are fine. Plus Ansmann actually has customer service. If you do have an issue, ring them up and they will sort it out. They are expanding their UK race team which gives you more set-ups etc.

There are many guys racing and bashing them, the only guy I know who had a problem didn't use decent hex drivers, and then ruined his ball diff by tightening it too much.

I wish tamiya UK was like Ansmann, having at least some customer service, cheap easy to get parts, and all kits with bearings would be a good start.

As to the actual line up of kits.. I think Tamiya's game is raised high enough.

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