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Yello

Peeve about the pronunciation of "Tamiya"

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You guys should try living in Wales. Welsh is "interesting" to learn. Don't know many languages that has so many words without vowels! :)

LL is like a "cla" kind of sound. So Llanelli is like "Clanecki" least that how some of my welsh friends pronounce it.

Heddlu is Police in Welsh and is sort of said "Hedthlee". DD is a bi like "th"

Gaelic is fun too apparently

Siobhan = Shivonne

Toe-may-toe or

Toe-maa-toe...seriously?

Agreed.

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If I humor it, Tam-eye-uh does sound cooler than Tam-ee-yah.

Though that doesn't change the facts. But, hey, we hillbilly Amerrikans say Porsche "Porsh" and not "Porshuh" and we spell tyres, tires, and we pronounce coupe, coop. When in Rome, eat pizza...Right?

But it's bit silly/ignorant to correct a German pronouncing Porsche the German way. And that is the point.

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I'm of the school of thought that believes if you're going to do something, do it right. Speech, spelling and pronunciation is a particular bug bear of mine, and I really can't stand the laisee faire attitude that people have towards it. The "As long as people understand you it doesn't matter" approach is one that particularly grates. The point is, it DOES matter; the more that rule is applied, potentially the more difficult it is for everyone to understand one another.

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I'm of the school of thought that believes if you're going to do something, do it right. Speech, spelling and pronunciation is a particular bug bear of mine, and I really can't stand the laisee faire attitude that people have towards it. The "As long as people understand you it doesn't matter" approach is one that particularly grates. The point is, it DOES matter; the more that rule is applied, potentially the more difficult it is for everyone to understand one another.

Then I'm more of a moderate version of you. While the confusion of "then" and "than", "to" and "too" etc. often cause me to go on long tirades about the downfall of society and the language - arguing about the proper pronunciation of a brand name just doesn't seem to get me worked up.

On the up side, at least I'll know I'm not alone the next time I'm clutching my head and cursing my eyes after reading MMO Zone chat. ;)

*cough*laissez faire*cough*

Sorry.

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Then I'm more of a moderate version of you. While the confusion of "then" and "than", "to" and "too" etc. often cause me to go on long tirades about the downfall of society and the language - arguing about the proper pronunciation of a brand name just doesn't seem to get me worked up.

On the up side, at least I'll know I'm not alone the next time I'm clutching my head and cursing my eyes after reading MMO Zone chat. :)

*cough*laissez faire*cough*

Sorry.

:unsure: I think the brand name thing I get less worked up about to be completely honest, but sort of see it as a tip of a very large, unpleasant ice berg. Even the common ones like the three "their / there / they'res" and the three "two / to / toos" are bad enough, but almost acceptable, "errs" as it were, but the more recently common ones like people getting the words for a singular female and a collective one the wrong way around (Women / woman) baffles me as much as it infuriates me, or the "I'm white and from the home counties but I talk like a gangsta" makes my blood boil too.

Don't get me started on MMO Zone chat. Really. Don't. I tend to minimise the window if I can, or just create a custom tab with something else in it and make sure the client defaults to that. It tends to be quicker than ignoring every second cretin that thinks they're funny.

**good catch.. I could feign that I was speaking in the second person singular / familiar, rather than the second person plural / formal, but you wouldn't buy it, and I'd know I was lieing **

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:) I think the brand name thing I get less worked up about to be completely honest, but sort of see it as a tip of a very large, unpleasant ice berg. Even the common ones like the three "their / there / they'res" and the three "two / to / toos" are bad enough, but almost acceptable, "errs" as it were, but the more recently common ones like people getting the words for a singular female and a collective one the wrong way around (Women / woman) baffles me as much as it infuriates me, or the "I'm white and from the home counties but I talk like a gangsta" makes my blood boil too.

Don't get me started on MMO Zone chat. Really. Don't. I tend to minimise the window if I can, or just create a custom tab with something else in it and make sure the client defaults to that. It tends to be quicker than ignoring every second cretin that thinks they're funny.

**good catch.. I could feign that I was speaking in the second person singular / familiar, rather than the second person plural / formal, but you wouldn't buy it, and I'd know I was lieing **

It's getting worse actually. Today, I came across "remains" used where "reminds" was intended. I had to read the sentence several times before I was able to figure it out.

I saw texting and netspeak defended recently from the standpoint that "at least the kids are writing where they otherwise wouldn't be" - which to me raises a bigger issue with education since I didn't have texting or netspeak as a student, but I still totally had to write.

The second problem is that while it's great that they're writing, without anyone teaching them the rules, they're unintentionally compounding the incorrect usages. I mean, if little Billy is never taught the difference between "woman" and "women" and during his texting/posting experience sees it used incorrectly more often than not, he's going to end up writing like the semi-literate from times of old who'd guess at spellings based on phonetics. Often times Billy won't even have the concept that one is singular and the other plural. He'll think they're interchangeable because they kind of sound the same or, he won't care, because none of his friends know the difference either and it's uncool to care about spelling.

That's how we get from there/they're to thinking reminds/remains are the same word.

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I saw texting and netspeak defended recently from the standpoint that "at least the kids are writing where they otherwise wouldn't be" - which to me raises a bigger issue with education since I didn't have texting or netspeak as a student, but I still totally had to write.

It's funny you mention that actually, I remember a few years ago (and ironically on an MMO forum) someone thought that text-speak and it's ilk was not only acceptable, but to be encouraged as a natural evolution of language. He was trying to argue that a lot of the reason people type like that in games or on their phones is because it's faster. If it's faster, and therefore more efficient, so long as everyone can understand everyone else then it shouldn't be criticised by old school grammar / spelling nazi's, but embraced and encouraged. I mean... seriously?

What I've also found a little embarrassing from one point of view too is that people for whom English isn't their first language often write it much better than some of those for whom it is. And why is that? Simple; they DO care about making sure that they are understood properly instead of laughing it off as something that's only reserved for the anally retentive and petty. I sometimes think that if some of these idiots spent as much time thinking about how they communicate with other people as they do practising their smouldering pout for Facebook, the world would be a much better place.

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SteelRat at what point should language stop evolving? English is full of words from the Indian language but the fact that the've been in there a while I presume thats OK? I assume you are not talking about Al Capone and his way os speech either? That's a whole other can of worms you opened up there :)

The Oxford English Dictionary is all ways getting up dated, should it have stopped in the 1800's? "Heads up" or 'I think you might want to have a glance in the direction of, oh your dead sorry' ;) The Bard managed to spin a good yarn, perhaps we should speak in accordance with Othello?

There is a big difference in pronouncing a word from a different language correctly, as having been told by a native speaker of that language, if indeed every speaker of that language pronounces things exactly the same way, and being corrected on a word from another language, by someone who is not speaking there own language, to the text book standard, which is often the case with shop assistants.

I think people should be free to express themselves any way they see fit, they may risk being perceived as a bit of a 'tool' by some but that is up to them to live with, if it is in school or the work place fair enough make an effort, but when your custom is paying the critics wages I think it a little rich, unless I've asked "Excuse me my good fellow, could you tell me the correct way to say this word, you see I've only ever seen it in in print and I wouldn't want to look silly in front of you and the other customers and members of staff.' :)

Oh sorry I don't use enough full stops I hope you haven't got out of breath :)

What about people with a lisp or stutter, I think thats the tip I would want to steer clear of, or would you try to correct them as well?

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Don't say "oh you're wrong, it's Ta-me-yah." next time someone says "tam eye yah." just smile and say, "yeah I like ta-me-ya" too.

Just don't say, "no, I like me some kai-yo-show! *Kyosho..." "my favourite street fighter was rye-you *Ryu" :)

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Yeah Japanscaledriver I think that is the way to do it, you give the person the idea that there is a different way to do it rather than making someone feel belittled. I'm in France at the moment, people from this part laugh at the people from the north and the way the speak and the same I'm sure they do up there about here, they both laugh at Paris. Someone here said I pronounce thing well i.e. like them if I went somewhere else in France it would be wrong i.e. not local.

Do you have big regional differences in Japan like that? I assumed it would, I was there as a child but only for a few days and it's all a bit hazy. Cool place as I remember :)

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It's funny you mention that actually, I remember a few years ago (and ironically on an MMO forum) someone thought that text-speak and it's ilk was not only acceptable, but to be encouraged as a natural evolution of language. He was trying to argue that a lot of the reason people type like that in games or on their phones is because it's faster. If it's faster, and therefore more efficient, so long as everyone can understand everyone else then it shouldn't be criticised by old school grammar / spelling nazi's, but embraced and encouraged. I mean... seriously?

The problem I have with this defence (defense? oh no!) is that while it's plausible, it's almost always used by people who can't spell to claim themselves visionary children of the future. Sure language is evolving, and sure a great many misspellings and "incorrect usages" have become standard as a result of prolific usage, but reminds is still not the same as remains and you wrote that because you don`t know the difference.

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Kenneth Williams introduced a lot of saying from an underground minority in 'around the horn', I happen to think that thats a good thing, he was able to talk freely in a time of great hostility, without pioneers we would live in a much less open society, if we all had to conform to a normal way of speaking, why not then thinking, dressing, acting etc.?

Steel Rat I don't know what an MMO forum is, it something I should know, or is it something you picked up from forum use? For all you talk about incorrect spelling, you have left me not knowing what you speak of even if all your spelling is correct. I am unfamiliar with facebook having never used or even seen it but I guess you know what it's users get up to. Is it all users of facebook you feel are idiots, or just the ones who don't spell to you liking? Is the judgement made on spelling alone or the merit of the content. I would have thought correctly spelt drivel was a lot less interesting than a badly spelt revelation?

I for one have never been good at spelling, so I can't pronounce words well, from just having read them, I can't spell words from hearing them either, I don't think this in it's self makes me an idiot, it's all the other stuff I do :).

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Kenneth Williams introduced a lot of saying from an underground minority in 'around the horn', I happen to think that thats a good thing, he was able to talk freely in a time of great hostility, without pioneers we would live in a much less open society, if we all had to conform to a normal way of speaking, why not then thinking, dressing, acting etc.?

Steel Rat I don't know what an MMO forum is, it something I should know, or is it something you picked up from forum use? For all you talk about incorrect spelling, you have left me not knowing what you speak of even if all your spelling is correct. I am unfamiliar with facebook having never used or even seen it but I guess you know what it's users get up to. Is it all users of facebook you feel are idiots, or just the ones who don't spell to you liking? Is the judgement made on spelling alone or the merit of the content. I would have thought correctly spelt drivel was a lot less interesting than a badly spelt revelation?

I for one have never been good at spelling, so I can't pronounce words well, from just having read them, I can't spell words from hearing them either, I don't think this in it's self makes me an idiot, it's all the other stuff I do :).

Oh come on. That's clearly not what he's saying and you know it.

For information though, MMO is a shortened version of MMORPG which stands for "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game". Think World Of Warcraft (WOW) as an example.

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I thought the OP was about pronunciation, I was just taking things to an extreme place to make a point.

Thanks for the MMO, I had heard of MMORPG, been gaming since nintendo game & watches, just never been a PC gamer or forum user except here. I think Steel Rat has fallen ill of his own pet hate if he had said MMORPG I would have understood, he's right he always should make the effort to do things correctly :)

But unless you know, it is far harder to guess than, an improperly pronounced word, just a bunch of letters could be anything, but that some how is ok? Seems a little double standard that's all. I did try to put in smiles but that's just another form of lol which perhaps is frowned on . I jest of course.

Oh and for the record no one has corrected my Tamiya, in store, or else where so wasn't exactly talking about the Tamiya correction, just the attitudes of some, not all of the correctors I have had the misfortune of running into:)

I have to put on a comedy robot accent in order for telephone computers to understand me!!!

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SteelRat at what point should language stop evolving? English is full of words from the Indian language but the fact that the've been in there a while I presume thats OK? I assume you are not talking about Al Capone and his way os speech either? That's a whole other can of worms you opened up there :D

The Oxford English Dictionary is all ways getting up dated, should it have stopped in the 1800's? "Heads up" or 'I think you might want to have a glance in the direction of, oh your dead sorry' :D The Bard managed to spin a good yarn, perhaps we should speak in accordance with Othello?

I'm not saying that English shouldn't evolve. I'm saying updating the way a word is spelt because people can't be bothered to spell it properly isn't evolution!

There is a big difference in pronouncing a word from a different language correctly, as having been told by a native speaker of that language, if indeed every speaker of that language pronounces things exactly the same way, and being corrected on a word from another language, by someone who is not speaking there own language, to the text book standard, which is often the case with shop assistants.

I agree. This is largely why I don't like LHS's in general.

I think people should be free to express themselves any way they see fit, they may risk being perceived as a bit of a 'tool' by some but that is up to them to live with, if it is in school or the work place fair enough make an effort, but when your custom is paying the critics wages I think it a little rich, unless I've asked "Excuse me my good fellow, could you tell me the correct way to say this word, you see I've only ever seen it in in print and I wouldn't want to look silly in front of you and the other customers and members of staff.' :)

I agree again. The only thing I do have an issue with though is that a lot of these people aren't actually expressing themselves as individuals, but of a preconceived idea of what is popular. Additionally, this has nothing to do with freedom of expression. Or are you suggesting that spelling "there" when you mean "their" isn't because you don't know the difference between the two but because you're being creative? Here's my creative answer to that if it is what you're saying: Rubbish. (edited from the original version to avert mod attention)

What about people with a lisp or stutter, I think thats the tip I would want to steer clear of, or would you try to correct them as well?

What is the relevance of this exactly? You're talking about mild speech impediments. I'm pretty sure that people with such difficulties don't write in the way that they speak? To extend that logic further, that would be suggesting that people who write in text-speak try and say things without including vowels - and in fact I have actually heard someone say "L O L" when they found something funny instead of just laughing.

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I thought the OP was about pronunciation, I was just taking things to an extreme place to make a point.

Thanks for the MMO, I had heard of MMORPG, been gaming since nintendo game & watches, just never been a PC gamer or forum user except here. I think Steel Rat has fallen ill of his own pet hate if he had said MMORPG I would have understood, he's right he always should make the effort to do things correctly :D

But unless you know, it is far harder to guess than, an improperly pronounced word, just a bunch of letters could be anything, but that some how is ok? Seems a little double standard that's all. I did try to put in smiles but that's just another form of lol which perhaps is frowned on . I jest of course.

Are you seriously suggesting that because I used a universally accepted acronym with someone else that also knew what it was, and that because you didn't know what it was (even though a simple Google search would have told you) that makes me a hypocrite? Really?

And no, I haven't fallen ill of my own pet hate at all. I know you're grabbing at straws. You know it too. Please stop. Thanks.

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Kenneth Williams introduced a lot of saying from an underground minority in 'around the horn', I happen to think that thats a good thing, he was able to talk freely in a time of great hostility, without pioneers we would live in a much less open society, if we all had to conform to a normal way of speaking, why not then thinking, dressing, acting etc.?

This has nothing to do with speech; this is about the written word.

Steel Rat I don't know what an MMO forum is, it something I should know, or is it something you picked up from forum use? For all you talk about incorrect spelling, you have left me not knowing what you speak of even if all your spelling is correct. I am unfamiliar with facebook having never used or even seen it but I guess you know what it's users get up to. Is it all users of facebook you feel are idiots, or just the ones who don't spell to you liking? Is the judgement made on spelling alone or the merit of the content. I would have thought correctly spelt drivel was a lot less interesting than a badly spelt revelation?

I am yet to see a badly spelled revelation. Generally the kinds of people who have the sorts of mind who are capable of such quantum leaps of thinking usually care about the way they express themselves to ensure that their vision is properly communicated with the people that they are trying to explain it to. Facebook users, generally by definition, don't fall in to that demographic. In my experience, idiotic, careless spelling go hand in hand with idiotic, baseless, comments.

I for one have never been good at spelling, so I can't pronounce words well, from just having read them, I can't spell words from hearing them either, I don't think this in it's self makes me an idiot, it's all the other stuff I do :D.

I daren't comment.

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This has nothing to do with speech; this is about the written word.

I am yet to see a badly spelled revelation. Generally the kinds of people who have the sorts of mind who are capable of such quantum leaps of thinking usually care about the way they express themselves to ensure that their vision is properly communicated with the people that they are trying to explain it to. Facebook users, generally by definition, don't fall in to that demographic. In my experience, idiotic, careless spelling go hand in hand with idiotic, baseless, comments.

This conversation is actually more interesting to me than the original Tamiya question, (while I hope sufficiently related to not constitute a total thread derailment)

I do have the policy of always struggling through the bad spelling to see if the poster has anything of value to say (hence my re-reading of the "remains" post) and occasionally I have been rewarded. There are many reasons they may not have the "book learnin'" to express themselves, but still (through life experience) have wisdom to share. Generally though, I'd tend to agree with you even as a Facebook user myself.

And since I keep referencing it, here's the "remains" post.

* DeadSpace remains you to blow the limbs of enemies 3 time inside five minutes, considering this is vital to learn and master it can be somewhat forgiven.

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This conversation is actually more interesting to me than the original Tamiya question, (while I hope sufficiently related to not constitute a total thread derailment)

I do have the policy of always struggling through the bad spelling to see if the poster has anything of value to say (hence my re-reading of the "remains" post) and occasionally I have been rewarded. There are many reasons they may not have the "book learnin'" to express themselves, but still (through life experience) have wisdom to share. Generally though, I'd tend to agree with you even as a Facebook user myself.

And since I keep referencing it, here's the "remains" post.

Interestingly the way that "remains" post reads, I wonder if the user was browsing the forum on his mobile phone and fell foul of auto correct? I wish I had £1 every time I'd had that happen to me!

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Interestingly the way that "remains" post reads, I wonder if the user was browsing the forum on his mobile phone and fell foul of auto correct? I wish I had £1 every time I'd had that happen to me!

It's possible, though I'd imagine it would be a bit of an ordeal to browse Tvtropes on a phone.

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This conversation is actually more interesting to me than the original Tamiya question, (while I hope sufficiently related to not constitute a total thread derailment)

I do have the policy of always struggling through the bad spelling to see if the poster has anything of value to say (hence my re-reading of the "remains" post) and occasionally I have been rewarded. There are many reasons they may not have the "book learnin'" to express themselves, but still (through life experience) have wisdom to share. Generally though, I'd tend to agree with you even as a Facebook user myself.

And since I keep referencing it, here's the "remains" post.

lol . I'am a registed dylexic belive it or not . Seriously . My schooling was mostly via the school of hard knocks and The British Army . Ok so i can'nt spell . However i have the life experiences and the intelligence to be able to share reasonablly elequantly .

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lol . I'am a registed dylexic belive it or not . Seriously . My schooling was mostly via the school of hard knocks and The British Army . Ok so i can'nt spell . However i have the life experiences and the intelligence to be able to share reasonablly elequantly .

And probably more likely to make the effort to make sure you're communicating effectively aswell.

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Addidas is a favorite on our house.

Wife says "A-DEE-DUS" The chav way IMO.

I say "ADDI- DAS" The way its spelt.

Tamiya is clearly "TAM-eye-YA" not "TAM-ee-YA" ;)

"A-DEE-DUS" and "TAM-eye-YA" for me..... then again I'm from New York. :angry:

Never mind.

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Ok then Steel Rat, Yello opened with pronunciation, and started off the phonetic spelling, I find this amusing a) because I can't spell so it, doesn't help me much :angry: because I imagine we are all reading the phonetics one way but each saying it either out loud or in our head slightly differently.

I went off at a tangent about people who correct you, not to help you out but to make them feel superior, these type of people tend not to have any reason to feel good by making others feel bad, personal experience.

Text book pronunciation is effected by accent, as with phonetic pronunciation, funny to me, maybe not to any one else.

With the example there and their, my mind tends to put it into context with the rest of the text, I can understand if you feel that is lazy by the poster, it could be a typo as you say or it could be a failing of the school system.

I find it a little ironic that you find it so irritating that you feel you have to indite a section of population as idiots, because they do what is seen to be done by others and is 'cool', but when I point out that your leaving out RPG from MMORPG would have made it much clearer, to me, you suggest googling it. Is it not much more of an irritation for me to stop mid read because you have included a shorted version of an string of letters that are not general knowledge, but I happen to be aware of the longer version. Your excuse, that it is a generally accepted term amongst those 'in the know' seems a bit ironic to me.

It is possible for someone, (I'm not saying you) to miss a point, if they are to busy examining the delivery rather than content. I may have put in, there instead of their, someplace, if I'm writing off the top of my head, late at night when I probably should have been asleep instead. I do make a lot of errors, sometimes I miss a few, but I'm not looking to get graded on my spelling, I may look like an idiot to some because of it, but does that really matter?

I find the whole idea of a written exchange on pronunciation amusing and quite enjoyable, it would make more sense if we could hear each other, if I pronounce Tamiya as bakaguyjean suggest, Ta mi ya, without him hearing it I could be still saying it incorrectly. I find that it quite amusing.

If someone wants to say L O L instead of laughing, is it not up to them? I wouldn't myself but live and let live.

The point is you wouldn't correct someone with a lisp or stutter but that is the convention now, years ago people did all kinds of things to make people 'normal' it is the people who try to do this we need to keep an eye out for, as the convention changes our idea of what is helpful can and these are with qualified people, again I'm not suggesting you are one of those people, we are just debating points.

I would want my will spelt correctly any important document, if I was writing a letter, even formal emails, but a forum talking about basically toys or games, I think I can let it slide. If I were working for Tamiya I would correct my spelling before submitting work.

I don't suggest we abandon the basics in all walks of life, but make room to expand what we consider language to be as with MMO, ( a universally accepted acronym, in certain circles, or is it in the latest edition of the Oxford English?) when I first became aware they were MMORPGs, I had played ARPGs and turn based RPGs on a SNES as they were known at the time. I would not expect all of the readers on here to be aware of action role playing games,or the fact that the turn is a turn in battle, on a Super Nintendo Entertainment System, so I would not expect them to google it, I would explain, even if that included spelling mistakes. I never suggested you were a hypocrite, just it was funny that you were annoyed at peoples' spelling claiming it would lead to misunderstanding, then leaving of three letters lead to my confusion, again amusing to me. I could have been 'Mozarts' Magnificent Order' for all I knew and the point being it is a lot easier to guess a mis-spelt word in the context of the text than an acronym, unless you know or it's in context. I don't think I'm wrong in saying on an Tamiya rc forum, you may not be aware of the latest accepted use of MMO, maybe I am.

Sayer glad you find it interesting as well, thanks for adding the quote, "remains" could of been an error due to them not knowing, a typo, or spell correction as said and Steel Rat agreed, you still get the basic idea, though, no need to google, Steel Rat you are using goole as if it is the only search engine, as that is the accepted 'norm' but I never use it. It maybe google-ing is now part of the English language, but it's not really correct. Just like I say don't hoovering, just me I guess.

If you can't comment on, if not being able to spell makes me an idiot, says more about you than me.

This thread being about pronunciation has everything to do with speech less to do with the written word, as I said I really need to hear how Tamiya is said correctly, as reading phonetic spelling on a page doesn't mean I will be pronouncing it correctly, I was trying to stick with the pronunciation as much as possible as that is what Yello had posted.

I for one happen to like people having different ways of saying things. This effects how they say things. If I were introduced to Mr Tamiya himself I may not be able to replicate the way he says his name exactly!

We have a strange attitude to accents who's sexy who's dumb etc. I don't hold with that. I let each person be themselves and enjoy the differences, I can learn a lot from people, their level of spelling ability is not a factor to me, but you can use it as a yard stick if you want, it's not my place to stop you.

Spell correction software is not a great help, if it puts in a word that you don't know how to spell and could mean something else, because if you can't hear it you're not sure, I'd probably need to put it into voice mode if possible, could have some fun with Tamiya and all the variations on these pages.

I don't think I made the point that bad spelling is in itself creative, inventing 'text speak' and icons etc is. I don't think I mentioned them either, but they have there place, I wouldn't expect to see them on in a serious newspaper, if they still exist.

I haven't double or tripled, checked my rambling so please for give any spelling mistakes, it late again. I should be asleep.

I think we can agree on what we do and disagree on what we do not, I have enjoyed the ride, no hard feelings Steel Rat. BTW is that from 2000AD?

Thanks Yello, sorry for the high-jacking, and all you other posters, I found you responses gave me a grin and got me thinking. I hope I have brought a bit of enjoyment to others as well.

Oh and I normally read the posts in my own voice, I might start giving you all accents now ;)

Cheers skywhelp

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