Looking for the cheapest Brushless+ESC combo = to 13t.

[Yello]

Help me find a great deal.

What's a cheap but good (great value) brushless motor that is equivalent to a 13t brushed motor? And what would be a good ESC for it?

I'm looking in the area of Hobby King for some good deals.

Anything less than a 100 US dollars all together, and the more you can approach 50 the better. Somthing that doesn't overheat. I would prefer sensorless or something that has been well reviewed and proven to require little maintenance. Also preferred, an ESC with the connectors already soldered on. It's old-school, but I have two NIMH batteries with the molex/Tamiya connectors, so something with that. Although, if I have to start sodering connections, I will, but for the time being, I'd like to keep this upgrade as simple as possible.

I like the 13t brushed motor that I have, but it stopped working again because the brushes are worn.

I think I'm tired of the maintenance and tired of buying brushes. When I think of the money I put into upgrading from stock to a better brushed system, I could have already (or almost) had a brushless system.

Thanks, gusy. I'm sure I could pour hours into researching this, but I figured I'd get your help first.

[berman]

You would want an 8.5t ezrun then, xe-runs are usually sensored from memory. I believe you can get them in 60a or 35a esc's, if it's going in the lunchbox you might get away with the 35, but you would be better off with the 60a.

Get rid of the Tamiya/molex connectors, or if you put the brushless in they will get rid of themselves, by melting together. I only have the stock plug on stock vintage stuff that run MSC's and even then it's debatable because if there is a bad/loose connection the get hot and melt anyway.

[hotshot boy]

http://www.hobbypartz.com/ta11ofmo.html

[TA-Mark]

I run a Castlecreations MambaMax 5700Kv in my Lunchbox. The newer Sidewinder SV2 4600Kv would do just as good if only using 7.2v/7.4v packs. Use the 5700Kv motor if you're feeling a bit insane.

Performance wise, it's so fast you won't use full throttle and it will do a standing backflip if you thump the trottle. You can be doing 40km/h down the street, tickle the throttle and it will stand up into a wheelstand.

You MUST glue the tyres onto the wheels when fitting something around the 4000kV up motor speeds. Bearings are also a must in the gearbox. The high rpm will melt plastic bushings within a few minutes (BTDT).

As already mentioned, ditch the 7.5Amp low current Tamiya molex connectors in favour of some high voltage 100A Deans or T-Plugs. The stock TEU101-BK brushed ESC and silvercan 540 is capable of drawing 50Amps at stall... the battery connector cannot! I won't use a Tamiya plug on even standard gear.

If you want the full potential of your brushless system, use Li-Po 20C packs or higher. I can squeeze the IP4000 25C packs into my Lunchbox chassis without modifications (Li-Po round edge packs are 3mm longer than Ni-MH). The Ni-MH packs do not have the discharge current capable of supplying the demands of a brushless system well. They will run the system, but poorly. Ni-MH also have quite a large voltage sag compared to Li-Po, so when you thump the throttle the Li-Po may sag from 8.4v at rest to about 7.6v under load, where as the Ni-MH the Ni-MH may sag to as far as 6.5v under load. This sag is noticed on acceleration easily even when using a standard TEU101-BK and silvercan motor.

If I remember right from another thread, the 13 turn brushed motor you were using was a Venom motor? These are pure junk! I've seen quality 19 turn brushed motors out perform the 13 turn Venom.

[Yello]

The Sidewinders and MambaMax are certainly great motors but too expensive. For my tastes, I'd feel uncomfortable spending over 100 dollars on a motor alone. A standing backflip sounds awesome. I've seen it done before, but just not on a Tamiya Lunchbox.

This combo will be for my LB indeed. But I have a Baldre coming in about 2 days, so it'll make its way there eventually.

I like the speed I get with my LB with the Venom 13t motor. I had it "dialed in" to a performance where I liked it very much. But I'm trying to lock it there in terms of the lowest amount of maintenance, and going brushless seems to be the key.

The Venom motors aren't bad. But I've run through two sets of brushes on this motor, and you know what's weird, after that died, I put in my Super Stock BZ, and now that's dead because the brushes wore down on those too, and that was its second pair. Maybe I'm buying crappy brushes considering that they wear down so fast? -- I can always tell when brushes get worn, BTW. My LB starts to slow down and putter as if the battery were low but it's fully charged. Haha.

I don't smoke and now with both motors down I feel like a smoker without cigarettes. No bashing breaks.

Anyway, I'm eyeing this ESC right now:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/_...prog_v2_2_.html

It's a Turnigy 60Amp sensorless brushless ESC with reverse for 40 US dollars.

I'm looking to get a true 540 sized brushless motor in the 3500-4500kv range for less than 30 dollars with bullet connectors and wires already in. A durable one. I'll look into the Tacon brand, but I'm not liking how the wires stick straight out. I imagine that can become an issue in my LB.

--

BTW, the Super Stock BZ's rpm as stated on the box is something like 27,000 or so? Similarly, the Venom 13t is about 31,000. So I figure the 4000kv*7.2v should give me comparable speeds. Right? And that's really all that I'm looking for.

[chevyman3]

Trust me there is no comparison between a brushless and brushed motor waaay more efficient waaay more power .a 9 turn 380 EZrun will well out perform your venom motor. I have one of the. ezrun 380's in my king black foot and believe me when i tell you it moves on 2s just fine. a full 540 can is better yet because there is a million other applications for it later on down the road. that esc looks fin paired with a ezrun 540 can or one of the tacon 3650's at 25 bucks the thing will fly. As TA-mark said you will want to go with lipos the higher the c rating the better. if you have say a 100 amp spike you need at least a battery that can deliver that ex:

5000mah 40c= 200amps

5000mah 20c= 100amps

2000mah 20c= 40 amps

2000mah 40c= 80 amps

you will want somthing to be able to deliver 100 amps with a true 540 brushlees with that speed controller or it cooks that battery.

[Yello]

I guess I can learn how to solder too...

Oddly enough I was working that solder gun as a kid when I was first into RCs. Not sure why I am loathe about it now.

But, anyway, I think I'm honing in on the EZRun 60 amp ESC with the 8.5t 4000kv motor combo. The cheapest I find it at is slightly less than 100 bucks. Surely there has to be a better deal than this! Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Thanks for all the posts. But I hope someone on this forum will come into this thread like a hero and post a magic link for the EZRUN 8.5t combo for 70 bucks free shipping. Haha.

[chevyman3]

You can make your own combo

ESC you liked

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/_...prog_v2_2_.html

$40.00

Program card

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/u...?idProduct=7187

$7.00

motor

http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m22-car-3650-4420.html

$24.00

Total $71.00

[Yello]

Thanks Chevyman.

If anything I'd drop the program card. But, more to the point, that Tacon motor would be eaten up by the right-rear tire on my Lunchbox, I think, considering how the wires jut straight out the back of the motor. I'd be afraid of bending them out of the way too (possibily breaking them).

The Turnigy ESC seems good, but I keep reading good stuff about the EZRun in terms of temperature and durability. I want it, and I think the 8.5t would suit me just fine. I'm looking for a best deal on them.

[chevyman3]

you can bend the 3 wires where you want them you can't break them

[Thommo]

+1 for the EZrun 8.5t combo. Cheapest deal is not always the best. I went for this same EZRun on the cheap last year and ended up getting supplied a version 1 motor instead of version 2, no connectors and mismatched serial numbers on the packaging and ESC so no warranty. My buddies payed the $90 and got exactly what they expected (Version 2 as described).

[Yello]

MAJOR UPDATE:

I have purchased the EZRUN 8.5t combo for 97 US dollars from Hobbypartz.com, but as it turns out the brushes in both the BZ and the Venom are still long and good. What made the motors conk out was all the snow bashing I'd been doing. Apparenlty, living in the saltbelt in the NorthEast of the USA = salty snow water + commutators and brushes and such = dead motors.

So I what I did was thoroughly rinse both motors in warm water. The BZ revived quick. The Venom revived but only after a more thorough top shaft to bottom shaft rinsing.

Which reminds me. I do a lot of wet bashing. If the EZRun can't handle a little water then I'm going to have to cancel the order, as I don't think it'll be right for me, especailly as an upgrade that costs as much as the LB itself. (Although if I do keep it, it'll count as my Baldre's first upgrade from stock...)

[Thommo]

MAJOR UPDATE:

Which reminds me. I do a lot of wet bashing. If the EZRun can't handle a little water then I'm going to have to cancel the order, as I don't think it'll be right for me, especailly as an upgrade that costs as much as the LB itself. (Although if I do keep it, it'll count as my Baldre's first upgrade from stock...)

EZRun in the DB-01 for sure. I thought it might be a bit hot for the Lunchie myself but this set up works so well with the DB-01 and 17t kit pinion. I suggest you buy a slipper clutch for the DB-01 also and read up on how to correctly build and maintain the ball diffs. Your in for some fun.

[TA-Mark]

Not sure where you're looking at the prices of the Castle systems at. There's 5700Kv and 4600Kv SV2 combo systems on ebay for US$118 (ESC+Motor). Motor on it's own is US$72, and ESC on it's own is US$60. Good luck with the EZ-Run system.

I've owned enough Venom motors to know that the Venom motors are not in the ranking when it comes to quality and performance, nor are the cheap chinese celled Venom battery packs.

[Yello]

I thought it might be a bit hot for the Lunchie myself

Granted, I'm still learning here, but I don't get why that should be. I won't be using a 3s lipo or anything, so why would a 540-size 4000kv brushless be something so wild beyond a 13t motor which produces (no load) 31000rpms at 7.2 volts? The battery will be the same. Shouldn't I expect the EZrun 8.5 to be a little but not insanely faster than my 13t motor and maybe even a little slower? Ie, 4000*7.2= 28800 rpms.

What am I missing?

I'll need now to buy some soldering stuff. Does a $6 solder iron and any resin sound good enough?

[bugone]

I'm in a similar situation, looking to brushless my monster beetle.

From what I've read it sounds like a brushless setup offers more torque and is more efficient. Whilst the theoretical rpm's may be the same, the actual speed of the motor under load will be far greater with brushless.

[Thommo]

bugone is spot on, (heaps of power and torque).

My experience with 8.5t 4000kv is with my DB-01 and also a buddies Stadium Blitzer. Both are absolutely lightning fast. The Stadium Blitzer being 2WD and a higher COG is almost impossible to control at speed and the Lunchie won't handle any better.

There is no chance of the EZRun being equal too or slower than a brushed Venom motor

[bromvw]

Not sure where you're looking at the prices of the Castle systems at. There's 5700Kv and 4600Kv SV2 combo systems on ebay for US$118 (ESC+Motor). Motor on it's own is US$72, and ESC on it's own is US$60. Good luck with the EZ-Run system.

I've owned enough Venom motors to know that the Venom motors are not in the ranking when it comes to quality and performance, nor are the cheap chinese celled Venom battery packs.

Mark Castle systems are prohibitively expensive to buy in the uk . By the time we pay customs duty and a postal service handling charge its got to the stage were we have to think twice before ordering anything from the USA .

[Percymon]

I'd suggest you just search youtube for brushless lunchbox and see what that throws up - I can't access it from the office, but i'm sure there will be plenty of examples with 3000/3300/3900/4300/5700 kV motors fitted. You will be able to turn down the initial punch with the ESC programming if its a bit too much motor for you. If nothign else, you could always buy a cheap Hobbyking 3300kV motor as a second option, and use the faster motor in another buggy type chassis at a later date.

[Percymon]

Mark Castle systems are prohibitively expensive to buy in the uk . By the time we pay customs duty and a postal service handling charge its got to the stage were we have to think twice before ordering anything from the USA .

Yes, a 5700kV 1406 motor and a SV2 ESC is around £145 delivered from UK sellers, and thats without programme card/link software.

Move up to a Mamba Max ESC and CC6607 motor and you're looking at £210 UK

I'm not for one minute going to suggest the EZRun is as good as a Castle system (although their customer support and reliability seems a bit suspect on some forums) , but for general runners/bashers the EZRuns were good value (seems they have gone up £10-15 from HK sellers over the last 6 months), but still half the price of a Castle SV2 combo.

[TA-Mark]

I don't think the 1406 motor would fit into the Lunchbox. It is a longer can than the CM36S. The tyre is almost touching the motor on mine with the CM36S fitted (it has touched it with tyre sidewall flex).

Sucks to be in the UK with your extra import duties. Under $1000 value doesn't get hit here in Oz, so it's just the postage costs. At the moment I can have a SV2 with CM36S landed here for about AU$125, which is only $15 dearer than a 60Amp EZ-Run system from HK (AU-US exchange rate is good if you live in Oz at the moment). When you compare this price to what I paid for my first generation MambaMax 5700Kv... AU$360 inc postage costs, the current systems are a bargain.

I know I've read a lot of other forums where they say they have had issues with reliability. I have a Castle system in nearly every one of my electric models and never had the slightest problem, from 1:18 Mamba25, Sidewinder Micro and Mamba Micro Pro, to 1:10 MambaMax, Sidewinder and Sidewinder version 2 in a variety of applications. It always leaves me scratching my head and thinking "What are these people doing to them?"