Castle 4600 Brushless - which chassis?

[Saito 5]

Well after running my new Sidewinder in a Blackfoot 3, I'm amazed at the power. I'm also unsure if this is the chassis to run it in to get its full potential. The drivetrain is certainly tough enough, but the rubbery, piable suspension and general handling of the truck can't seem to keep the power down. After looking through the Tamiya lineup for a tough, simple chassis I settled on a Blitzer or DT-02 Sand Viper. I like the Blitzer's larger tires which will permit me to run on grass easier but it also has the somewhat flexible (though not as bad a the Blackfoot 3's) two piece arms. The Sand Viper seems to have a somewhat "tighter", more precise suspension movement to it, but may struggle(?) in tougher terrain. Any suggestions?

[Saito 5]

Another consideration that struck me is the DF-02 with some alloy drivetrain upgrades. I know their ground clearance isn't great but the 4wd might help put the power down.

[Skottoman 306]

I have run Castle 4600 and 5700 in the following chassis

- TB01 (Must have splined metal driveshaft and metal ring gears, plastic shreds!)

- TB02 (destroyed the diffs, but I rebuilt them 3 times and they're holding now)

- TRF201 (no problems!)

- F201 (no problems!)

- Cup Racer (Too much power for chassis, torque steers)

- M03 (Too much power to put to the ground, but fun!)

I know most of these are on-road, and you seem to be looking off-road, but just a reference for you...

Cheers,

Skottoman

[Otis311 196]

I would stick with the two wheel drive personally. I would want a slipper if I running four wheel. The Blitzer or the Sand Viper would probably handle that motor but it would be crazy fast and uncontrollable, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[speedy_w_beans 4272]

Which Sidewinder system are you running?

- SCT 3800 kV

- SV2 4600 kV

- SV2 5700 kV

And which motor came with your system?

- CM36

- 1406

- 1410

EDIT: Whoops, I missed the 4600 in the title of this thread... I'm going to leave all this information in my reply anyhow.

The system and motor you have may steer you towards a specific model due to gearing requirements. I have the Sidewinder SV2 with CM36 2-pole 5700 kV motor, and I have the Sidewinder SCT with 1410 4-pole 3800 kV motor. The gearing requirements are night and day different between them.

With the SV2/CM36/5700 kV system, you will likely need 14:1 or 15:1 gearing to keep the ESC and motor reasonably cool in a 2WD buggy or 4WD buggy. I tried it in a DF02 running 11.375:1 gearing (16T pinion - smallest) and it would get too hot after 5-10 minutes of running. Given the limited gearing choices for Blitzer, DT02, and DF02, this system won't work very well with any of them.

With the SCT/1410/3800 kV system, I can say from experience that 9.58:1 gearing (19T pinion - biggest) in the DF02 is no problem at all. The ESC and motor are barely warm after continuous running. I feel very confident that this system can work with stock gearing for Blitzer, DT02, or DF02 chassis.

I can't comment on the SV2/1406/4600 kV system since I don't have one, but it's somewhere in the middle between the SV2/CM36 and SCT/1410. For comparable kV ratings, Castle says the 1406 generates 30% more torque than the CM36, and the 1410 generates 50% more torque than the CM36. I would guess you can run a SV2/1406/4600 kV system in a DT02 or DF02, but you'd want to run the the smallest pinions to get higher gearing (DT02 17T=10.37:1, DF02 16T=11.375:1).

I would avoid the SV2/1406/5700 kV system for off-road use.

My reference points are the two Sidewinder systems I mentioned above installed in a DF02 running DF03 2.2 inch wheels and Dirt Hawg I and III tires (90 mm outer diameter).

The Stadium Blitzer or Blitzer Beetle come with nice shells, but they don't have all the nice mechanical parts. The nylon bushings, two-piece suspension arms, and fixed camber links are a turn off for me. The Sand Viper comes with all the nice mechanical parts (full ball bearings, one-piece suspension arms, adjustable camber links), but it only has a buggy shell. I changed that, though; check out the Neo Blitzer I and II entries in my showroom.

I'm pretty sold on the DF02 running the SCT/1410/3800 kV system. I ran the chassis really hard last year with the SV2/CM36/5700 kV system and burned through a set of Dirt Hawgs right to the foam, and the drivetrain held up well. I started with a Plasma Edge kit (the cheapest one on Tower) and added eight 1150 ball bearings and the TT01 aluminum propeller shaft. That's all I did for drivetrain upgrades. Then I went to the larger wheels and tires immediately since the kit wheels and tires take away from the ground clearance. Running through short grass, dirt, and on pavement is no problem at all, and the 4WD really does help put the power down. I packed my diffs with a generous amount of anti-wear grease, and that has helped prevent wheelspin while turning. Turning under power is good with some extra tacky grease in the diffs.

Hope some of this information helps.

-Paul

[TA-Mark 195]

I have 4600Kv or 5700Kv systems in almost everything.

In the DT02MS I'm using a 4600Kv. This is using the 17 tooth pinion with a FDR of 9.28:1. All temps are well within limits.

In my Blitzer chassis I'm also using a 4600Kv. I do have it under a Bear Hawk body and I'm using Buggy Champ wheels. Runs the 13 tooth pinion (not calculated the FDR on this model). Motor or ESC get barely warm. You could run the larger Blitzer sized wheels no problem with the same motor and gearing. DT02 hopup parts can be used on this model to make the suspension tunable.

Neither of these models required anything strength wise besides a steel pinion and a set of bearings to make the durable enough.

With 2WD vehicles you will find that you do not (and rarely can get to) use full throttle, and that applying the power requires a certain finesse. Brushless is like that. It takes a few runs to get out of the brushed driving style of 'hold her full throttle til the motor catches up' habit. 2WD can be geared taller with the same motor due to less weight and less driveline drag.

The DF02 4WD chassis will run a 4600Kv, but that's about it's limit because of limited gearing. 4WD and 4600Kv on buggy sized wheels needs around a 11:1 to 11.5:1 FDR. The 5700Kv motor requires around 12:1 to 12.5:1 with the same size wheels (which the DF02 cannot be geared for). I would want to upgrade the main propshaft, diff outdrives and fit universals for extended use with brushless in a DF02. The suspension can be lifted with longer dampers, but it requires the fitting of adjustable upper links to keep cambers in check (I did this on mine).

I run 4600Kv in my DF03MS. This model will allow much hotter motors with it's ample gearing range, but the enclosed motor space makes it run a touch warmer than it should. Do not use brushless in a DF03 without first changing to a Five Stars steel mainshaft (if you can find one).

I run 5700Kv in my DF01 Blazing Star. Much needs to be done to the driveline and gearcasing to stop this model from exploding under the power (I've covered this in many threads).

I run 4600Kv in my TA02T F-150. Much the same mods to the driveline and gearcasing as for the DF01. I run this model with the DF01 suspension to give it a more stable wider track. I'm using a 17 tooth steel pinion with larger than normal HPI MT2 wheels and Geolander tyres.

I have them fitted to many more models and could keep going on and fill the page, but I'll stop here unless you want specifics of how they performed in a certain model and what steps I needed to take to keep temperatures in check and to ensure durability.

[speedy_w_beans 4272]

Just want to 'fess up to a mistake I made regarding DT02 gearing... The Sand Viper ships with a 17T pinion, not 19T pinion. So, with the 17T pinion the gearing is 9.28:1, but with the 19T pinion the gearing is 8.30:1.

Based on TA-Mark's experience running the 4600 kV with 17T pinion on his DT02MS, that should work equally well with the Sand Viper. For the DF02, I'd still go for the 16T pinion.

-Paul

[Otis311 196]

Just want to 'fess up to a mistake I made regarding DT02 gearing... The Sand Viper ships with a 17T pinion, not 19T pinion. So, with the 17T pinion the gearing is 9.28:1, but with the 19T pinion the gearing is 8.30:1.

Based on TA-Mark's experience running the 4600 kV with 17T pinion on his DT02MS, that should work equally well with the Sand Viper. For the DF02, I'd still go for the 16T pinion.

-Paul

I was going to say something, but bit my tongue. But it did make me wonder how the 4600 would be with the 19t. Might have to try that.

[speedy_w_beans 4272]

I was going to say something, but bit my tongue. But it did make me wonder how the 4600 would be with the 19t. Might have to try that.

As my English teacher used to say, "We must be men of precision!" I would rather someone corrected me than let me remain ignorant.

-Paul