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Raman36

Kyosho Sand Master

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Thanks - sounds like perfect plan - I've read it 3 or 4 times now but not everything became clearer - will re-read, make notes, and post :)

Cheers!

Hi Motorstone , welcome to the forum . Ok so starting from basics see if you can find a PDF file download for the build manual if you bought yours RTR . Have a good read as it will show you exactly what go's where . The servo is the small electronically controlled motor that converts the movement of your remote control to actual movement of the steering . You may need to do some dis assembly in order to get at it .

The other thing I would do is to re read this thread from page one - with a note pad at hand . Write down everything you don't understand and re post . We'll then be able to help more .

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Hi Motorstone,

This too was my 1st car last year. I read & re-read this thread & ended up doing a few of its recommended mods.

1 of the 1st I did was upgrading the motor/esc combo - £45 (ex eBay). Then went to 2S LiPo. IT SHIFTED!

I went for for Traxxas oil filled shocks (never looked back) - I just took it into a local RC shop & said match these!

As for tyres I went for some spiked, 12mm hex tyres - again pretty standard shop bought tyres, nought special but definately better grip.

What progress you made so far?

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Hi all,



OK been busy but back and have read through everything here and have my list of questions :) Hope you are happy to help out otherwise I’m stuffed as just can’t seem to find accurate definitions of all these things elsewhere…



1) Post 21 —> how and why do you shim the suspension? (Post 26) are spacers same as shims?



2) Post 52 and 58 —> “shim the drivecups” what are drive cups? and why shim them?



3) Post 56 —> why would you want/need to replace the drive shafts?



4) Post 63 —> how can the dogbones (drive shafts?) bind in the (drive?)cups?



5) Post 78 —> lower pivot pin holes / wishbones causing tramping - where are these parts on the car? and why would alloy help?



6) Post 97 —> what are turn buckles? and how do they fit in ball joints?? “adjustable turn buckles which are a better fit on the ball joints.”



7) with the leopard brushless conversion do you have to run LIPO batteries then or could I still use 4200mah 7.2V battery?



Upgrades / planned upgrades:



Had the problem with rear bottoming out as many of you have so as a temporary fix I mounted these on our 3 cars for now.



Plan to put oil suspension on but currently undecided as to which direction to go… modelsport list the 90mm Absima Oil shocks as compatible with the Kyosho Sandmaster - tempted to put them on the rear and some 85mm on the front. Thoughts? Any reason why this should/shouldn’t work?? Are Reely same/better/worse than Absima?



Thanks everyone



It's perhaps not the best car in the world - but for the price point we're having a ball - and it's perfect father/son(s) time too - we're really enjoying ourselves :D

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Hi Motorstone,

First things first, the Servo is the electrical unit that does the steering, looks just like a small black box with an arm that connects to the steering setup. operate the steering with the body panels off and watch what happens. The arm on the servo connects to two parallel arms which in turn connect to the steering rods that attach to the steering blocks that hold the wheels.

Post 174 shows the king pin mod. basically the kingpin is the part that the front steering blocks/wheel assembly pivots on while steering, if it is loose the front wheels feel sloppy

1) the lower suspension arms are attached to the car by steel pins through the plastic arms. These are not a precise fit and slide back and forth a little bit, shimming stops the back and forth motion, so yes they are spacers, but thin ones

2) drive cups are the pieces on the wheel axle and gearbox that hold the pins on the driveshafts, ie the driveshafts fit into them, they look like little cup with a couple of slots on the side. as above shimming takes out slop, so in this case shimming the axle will move the cup closer to the driveshaft, reducing the movement the driveshaft is capable of but make it more likely to bind (see below).

3) if there is a lot of movement in the driveshaft, replace with a slightly longer one - same effect as shimming the drive cups, or reduce the diameter of the shaft to allow it to have more angle. When you operate the suspension you will see that the angle of the drive shaft, in relation to the drivecups, changes as you move the suspension up and down.

4) following on from 3) if there is too much driveshaft angle it will bind (tighten up) and will stop spinning freely causing the wheels to skip or stop, post 58 shows that greg slimmed the driveshafts down where they would catch on the drivecups at excessive driveshaft angle so there is more room.

5) as well as back and forth movement in the suspension arms there could be slop from the hole being too big for the pin allowing the lower rear suspension arm to flop around. This causes the driving wheels to hop/skip instead of staying firmly on the ground. Putting bushes in restores a firm fit, but is a fairly advanced modification. Axle tramp also affected high powered real cars with leaf springs, the power made the leaf springs bend into an s shape which meant that the wheels didn't stay on the ground and juddered.

6) turnbuckles are threaded shafts which screw into ball cup holders. Imagine cutting the ends of the upper suspension arms off and screwing a steel rod into the cut bits. These replace the upper suspension arms and offer the ability to adjust the vertical wheel angle (Camber). Turnbuckles and cups are generally a tighter fit on the ball studs, so less slop again.

7) brushless will work with your batteries, Lipo tend to have more consistent power whereas Nimh have an initial peak then drop off in power.

As far as oil shocks I have no idea, I am still using the originals. oil shocks are normally better as they provide nice smooth consistent damping.

Hope that helps, I tried to put it as plain as i can but let us know if it is still a mystery, suspension type stuff is fascinating :)

Cheers

Glenn

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Hi Motorstone,

First things first, the Servo is the electrical unit that does the steering, looks just like a small black box with an arm that connects to the steering setup. operate the steering with the body panels off and watch what happens. The arm on the servo connects to two parallel arms which in turn connect to the steering rods that attach to the steering blocks that hold the wheels.

Post 174 shows the king pin mod. basically the kingpin is the part that the front steering blocks/wheel assembly pivots on while steering, if it is loose the front wheels feel sloppy

1) the lower suspension arms are attached to the car by steel pins through the plastic arms. These are not a precise fit and slide back and forth a little bit, shimming stops the back and forth motion, so yes they are spacers, but thin ones

2) drive cups are the pieces on the wheel axle and gearbox that hold the pins on the driveshafts, ie the driveshafts fit into them, they look like little cup with a couple of slots on the side. as above shimming takes out slop, so in this case shimming the axle will move the cup closer to the driveshaft, reducing the movement the driveshaft is capable of but make it more likely to bind (see below).

3) if there is a lot of movement in the driveshaft, replace with a slightly longer one - same effect as shimming the drive cups, or reduce the diameter of the shaft to allow it to have more angle. When you operate the suspension you will see that the angle of the drive shaft, in relation to the drivecups, changes as you move the suspension up and down.

4) following on from 3) if there is too much driveshaft angle it will bind (tighten up) and will stop spinning freely causing the wheels to skip or stop, post 58 shows that greg slimmed the driveshafts down where they would catch on the drivecups at excessive driveshaft angle so there is more room.

5) as well as back and forth movement in the suspension arms there could be slop from the hole being too big for the pin allowing the lower rear suspension arm to flop around. This causes the driving wheels to hop/skip instead of staying firmly on the ground. Putting bushes in restores a firm fit, but is a fairly advanced modification. Axle tramp also affected high powered real cars with leaf springs, the power made the leaf springs bend into an s shape which meant that the wheels didn't stay on the ground and juddered.

6) turnbuckles are threaded shafts which screw into ball cup holders. Imagine cutting the ends of the upper suspension arms off and screwing a steel rod into the cut bits. These replace the upper suspension arms and offer the ability to adjust the vertical wheel angle (Camber). Turnbuckles and cups are generally a tighter fit on the ball studs, so less slop again.

7) brushless will work with your batteries, Lipo tend to have more consistent power whereas Nimh have an initial peak then drop off in power.

As far as oil shocks I have no idea, I am still using the originals. oil shocks are normally better as they provide nice smooth consistent damping.

Hope that helps, I tried to put it as plain as i can but let us know if it is still a mystery, suspension type stuff is fascinating :)

Cheers

Glenn

Wow - a LOT of good info there - thanks :)

Must admit it's a lot clearer to me now!

I think i'm going to digest it and then reply when it's clearer in my mind and I have any other questions will get back...

I have noticed a bit of clicking movement in the wheels when driving - and noticed that the end of the driveshafts nearer to the gearbox do show some sign of scraping - so maybe it is binding... wonder if it's because i put the bigger wheels on...

cheers!

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Hi all. I'm new here and just wanted to say thanks for all the valuable info regarding the Sandmaster. I've searched the net for any info I could find on this amazing little buggy, but to be honest, this seems to be the most comprehensive source of info on this particular vehicle I've seen anywhere. What makes things even worse, is that I'm new to the whole RC game as well. There's way too much to learn in one go as an individual with no experience and YouTube can only offer so much. I picked up a Sandmaster about two weeks ago and everything I've done so far (which is not too much) has been possible only due to this incredibly informative thread. I hope to learn a ton more if you guys can bear my dumb noob questions :)

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Nice buggy! How is the paint holding up to the bodypanels, does it stick well or get flaky over time?

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Thanks Greg. That remains to be seen as I've not taken her out for a good bash since the paint job. It should hold up though as I did a primer coat first, then the white. I then designed the decals and printed them on water slide paper, applied them and finished the panels with two coats of clear. I should know for sure after the weekend.

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The only other mods so far have been minor. 3Racing shocks front and back which I really struggled with at first. So many parts and instructions which could only be read under an electron microscope. I also replaced the servo saver with a Tamiya set. At first I left the driver original yellow, but that just looked really out of place so I painted him mat black. He's now fondly referred to as "The Anti-Stig".

Any further upgrade suggestions would be well and truly appreciated. I wouldn't do the motor yet, as the stock is plenty swift enough for a noob like me at this point, but I would like a little more ground clearance. I'm considering bigger wheels, but have no idea what would fit nor the size of spur and pinion to change to to accommodate the new wheel size.

The other thing I'd like to do is change to LiPo, but realize the SM has no cut-off. When speaking to the local RC store owner, he said it would be fine as long as I stopped when I noticed the vehicle starting to slow. I'm a bit dubious.

Is there any point in upgrading the front and back shock stays to the aluminum ones? Or is that purely cosmetic?

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Upgraded to 3300Kv brushless today and the little buggy's gone from pretty swift(ish) to a deranged bullet. I have to drop the throttle to about half way on the transmitter to make it controllable. Somethings bound to give soon, if so, what would you say it'd be?

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Transmission seems to be bullet proof with all the metal gears having an oversized pitch. Only the 48pitch spur gear and the laughable plastic pinion gear will suffer a lot, so be sure to use a steel pinion and seal the clamped-on spur gear case against dirt.

And keep track of body panels that may fall of the car. :)

The shock towers are rather flexible, but I expect metal shock towers to bend or put unnecessary stress on the plastic chassis parts.

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Thanks so much for the heads up Greg. I'll be sure to grab a steal pinion before the weekends bashing. I bolted on all the top panels today, as I'm sick and tired of playing fetch. I've already broken one of the clips off the spur gear case trying to remove it the first time. Any tips on sealing the cover? I must admit, this buggy really comes into it own on the beach, but a badword of a job to clean after. How's your SM doing? What mods have you made so far?

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Hi Radial,

don't get yourself caught stealing a pinion ;).

For all the mods I've done so far and how my Sandmaster is doing at the moment, please have a read through the entire thread. :)

Cheers

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don't get yourself caught stealing a pinion ;).

LOL! My spelling is a atrocious, but not as bad as my noob driving. Had a great day bashing on the beach today. The tide was in, so not too much beach therefore you can guess what happened next.... Yup, I just so happened to somehow send the SM careening into the damned sea :/ That's with my brand new brushless motor and ESC. Well done me!

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hi

i also bought a sandmaster one month ago,

i upgraded it with new shocks, new tyres, lipo saver, run pretty well but this week end i broke the servo saver silver ring

i can replaed it with the kyosho spare part ref.ez012

But i also read on this thread that few people upgrade also the servo saver but i don t know which servo saver to buy that fit the kyosho sandmaster

thanks for your help

here 's the photo

140823062950351450.jpg

140823063727996113.jpg

140823063850793284.jpg

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Hello folks,

Got myself Sand Master last year and been looking here since then.

Things i have changed are oil shocks (Absima/Ansmann), different set of wheels for higher ground clearance, then added some lights and of course new driver too ;)

Also added metal plate on front to keep nose more dent free. Probably go brushless system soon. Most likely wheels will change as well.

800-3614_zps6f467ce0.jpg

800-3631_zpsb0f65a69.jpg

800-3616_zps04f425e9.jpg

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Looks nice. What size tyres have you used?

Thanks, tyres are from Ebay, 105mm or so diameter , actually tread pattern was different in pics and i got these in mail... but it was fine. Rims are Gmade beadlocks.

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From the tread pattern and that diameter they look like 1.9 proline flatirons. They suit it really well. Is the front wheel a hex hub then or did you have to get creative?

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No Prolines here, maybe copy of those or something i suppose, front has usual 12mm hex hub so no problem with that. just bolt it there and drive. :)

Edit: hmm, i had to google those flat irons, it seems identical minus proline text and mine seems slightly not so good quality molding as in prolines commercial pics.. otherwise exact same.

I wouldnt surprise if come out from same factory just without branding.

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Nice choice on decals, wheels and especially the lights. Where are they from? :) Your photos look very professional.

From my point of view, I suggest the tires aren't from the same factory as the genuine ones. The bootlegs are remolds/recasts, which is pretty common for a lot of plastic model kit stuff coming from China. This explains the missing manufacturers logo and the lack in detail/molding quality. I bet the material formulation itself differs from the genuine product, too.

There had been even bootleg TL-01B (HBX Max, Bonzer) and DF-03 (Red/Blue Tanga) kits in the past. Some of them were sold by Conrad Electronic stores in Germany, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them getting away with such a huge copyright infringement, since I bet Dickie-Tamiya wasn't very pleased with that.

Please excuse me, I got sidetracked.

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