Why buy re-releases, when originals are cheap?

[Hibernaculum 933]

So as I've said before, I'm not really a fan of the re-releases. At least, not in the sense that I'd buy them. But I'll spare you all another rant about it though and instead say the re-releases do have one big benefit to fans of originals. And that's massive bargains on originals.

But you all knew that, right?

Or maybe not quite?

After some time taking a break from R/C, I got back into it a few months ago. Of course, came back to see that some of the latest re-releases are the Supershot and Blitzer Beetle.

So I went on eBay, and looked for originals of those two, since they were still somewhat on my collecting list.

And then, with zero bidding wars, I have bought the following.

- A NIB Original Supershot for AU$417 (prior to rereleases, this was regularly over $1000)

- A NIB, Sealed Original Blitzer Beetle for AU$200 (a couple of years ago, these were anywhere between $350 and $500)

My secret max bid on the Supershot was in fact over $700. Because even that would have been a bargain. To say I was amazed at the end price, was an understatement.

The Beetle, well, that had been sitting on eBay for many weeks. Seller even dropped the price. I kept forgetting to grab it, but of course there was no danger...nobody wanted it.

Do you all value originality so little that you'd rather pay 75% of the cost of an original, for a rerelease?

A rerelease Supershot that has a list of changes a mile long and isn't even called a Supershot?

A rerelease Blitzer Beetle that caused it's own thread of excitement last year here, and turned out to reportedly have holes drilled in the body in the wrong spot and some black stickers from Tamiya to cover them up? (if true, possibly one of the most rubbishy things Tamiya has ever done).

Of course, if every single one of you thought like I did, I would never have got my hands on those two bargains. So I should be saying thanks

But I'm just a bit amazed that so few others seem to feel the way I do.

It's not just these cars. Original NIB Hotshots plummeted from the $1000 mark pre-rerelease, to around $400-$500 as well. Not tempting? Even though they were sky-high not that long ago, and one of the most coveted and essential collectibles?

Of course, NIB original SRBs are still vastly more expensive than the Re-re models. But used SRBs have definitely declined in price to levels unseen prior to 2010.

Many of you will say "Well, $400 for an original NIB is the same cost as 2 or 3 re-releases". True enough.

But then I see those same people being hyped in these forums by a sort of re-release "mania" where everybody starts to psych everybody else into thinking they want to buy every re-release.

And what sort of spending rate does that result in? How often do we see phrases like "Oh no Tamiya, now you've made me want to buy XXXX as well!". Fact is, the budget required to keep goose-stepping along to these "new releases" lists from Shizuoka is more than enough to be buying quite a wealth of period-correct vintage Tamiya stuff, if you actually like vintage stuff.

So the answer can only be: the notion of something being "vintage" or "original" doesn't really matter to the vast, vast majority of Tamiya fans anymore. Or certainly the ones here on Tamiyaclub.

Final comment: I would suggest you don't decide in 10 years time that you actually do want some period correct original model, and then try to create one via restoration of various used models. By then, the cross-pollination between original and re-re parts could be so vast it will be a nightmare to untangle all the differences. Look at all the trouble we all had on Wild Willy Mk1 vs Mk2 (and variations therein) for many years, not to mention the chemical analyses and laboratory tests people were performing on SRB black bumpers to try to determine if they were original or had been grey ones that were dyed etc. All of that madness will, I think, pale into nothing compared to the nightmare of re-re/original hybrids! Fun times ahead

cheers,

H.

[TA-Mark 195]

As all my models are regular runners I would go for a re-release almost every time. The slight modifications in the most part improve the reliability of the chassis, fixing some of the misgivings of the original design. As a runner I feel functionality is more important than original aesthetics.

I can see where the hard core shelf collector would prefer the original though.

[richard.tufty 20]

As all my models are regular runners I would go for a re-release almost every time. The slight modifications in the most part improve the reliability of the chassis, fixing some of the misgivings of the original design. As a runner I feel functionality is more important than original aesthetics.

I can see where the hard core shelf collector would prefer the original though.

This. All my cars are runners and if I can run cars with new parts rather than more brittle 20+ year old plastic then that is a huge bonus!

It's been said many times before though, this hobby is different things to different people. For example, I personally can't understand the collectors who buy NIB kits and never open them, to me these are cool models designed to be built and run, rather than be stacked in a pile. Presumably though, to those same collectors, driving models through the dirt and scratching them up like I do might seem equally odd.

[OCD 514]

I think the mistake you're making here is assuming that the vast majority of those that spent big money on the originals were doing it in the name of 'period correctness'. It is my sense that a lot of us (myself included) just wanted to 'reconnect' with what made old Tamiya cars unique to us: The design and engineering that went into them. I'll admit that it is good fun to search for months (years) for that elusive piece of cadmium-laced hardware needed to 'properly' finish a model, but that's not at all the primary reason I participate, it is simply one of the reasons I do. Another aspect I enjoy is the tinkering and improving the classic designs, and the re-releases offer an opportunity for me to do this at reasonable prices. How do the market-inflated originals compete with this?

Basically you have two types of collectors here: Those that want a museum-like experience with Tamiya (how they were), and those that want to relive the creative experience with them (how they are). Both of these groups end up chasing the same kits since there is really so little left of these mostly consumable toys, which eventually drives price and interests sky high. Then you get a re-re that relieves that pressure, and the demand is satisfied for a large number of buyers, thus bringing down the value of the originals. Seems like a win-win-win to me?

What you must keep in mind is that these are tough times for any company that isn't making mainstream commodity type merchandise. What Tamiya brings to the table in this day and age is simply a miracle in my eyes. While other companies tighten their belts and only commit to 'safe' design ideas (read: boring) Tamiya is still trying new ideas along with the old. The difference is that the new ideas are a response to a new set of values and desires, where the old is of the RC heyday that will never be repeated. How cool is it that we can choose which design ethic we prefer? You mention the Supershot re-re "has a list of changes a mile long" and barely acknowledged the fact that it doesn't even share the same name. It's not the same, but it gives you a taste of what it was like, albeit with better spares availability. From Tamiya's point of view, these models meet a demand with little to no development costs, and enables them to fund new models that are innovative and 'risky'.

[Sayer 742]

Originals hold no intrinsic value outside of what collectors are willing to pay for them. Additionally, they suffer from various degrees of flawed design that was a result of either manufacturing processes of the time, cost cutting measures or just plain wrongheaded-ness. It's really no mystery that outside of the obsessive collectors who need to have everything carbon dated, most people prefer to have the versions that already have the fixes many people wished the originals had when they came out.

[markbt73 5316]

I can't justify spending more on an original NIB kit when a re-release is available, with fresh plastic, a few design improvements, and an ESC thrown in to boot. But I am starting to see the appeal of restoring an old car. If I wanted another SRB, I'd probably look for a used original rather than spring for another re-re.

Sadly, my interest is starting to shift away from Tamiya, towards Kyosho and Associated, where no re-res exist. So I'll end up paying silly prices or waiting for a lucky score anyway...

[Wandy 1527]

Good to see you posting again H, I always appreciate the passion in your posts.....even if I usually disagree with most of what you say with regards to re-releases.

So I went on eBay, and looked for originals of those two, since they were still somewhat on my collecting list.

And then, with zero bidding wars, I have bought the following.

- A NIB Original Supershot for AU$417 (prior to rereleases, this was regularly over $1000)

- A NIB, Sealed Original Blitzer Beetle for AU$200 (a couple of years ago, these were anywhere between $350 and $500)

My secret max bid on the Supershot was in fact over $700. Because even that would have been a bargain. To say I was amazed at the end price, was an understatement.

The Beetle, well, that had been sitting on eBay for many weeks. Seller even dropped the price. I kept forgetting to grab it, but of course there was no danger...nobody wanted it.

Although the price you paid for the Supershot is astonishing, I'd say that in the grand scheme of things you were very, very lucky to see that happen. It's certainly not something that happens on a regular basis. I'd say with some confidence it was a bit of a one off, really.

Do you all value originality so little that you'd rather pay 75% of the cost of an original, for a rerelease?

A rerelease Supershot that has a list of changes a mile long and isn't even called a Supershot?

A rerelease Blitzer Beetle that caused it's own thread of excitement last year here, and turned out to reportedly have holes drilled in the body in the wrong spot and some black stickers from Tamiya to cover them up? (if true, possibly one of the most rubbishy things Tamiya has ever done).

The answer to that question has clearly been presented to you by the sales success of the re-releases, and they MUST have been successful, or else Tamiya simply would not keep bringing more & more of them back. As OCD has pointed out, back in the day between 1999 & 2005 when it was only the originals that could be bought the main reason people were prepared to pay the silly money for them was simply to relive the old days rather than be picky about miniscule part detail differences. When Tamiya started to bring the cars back themselves, albeit with minor and virtually unnoticeable differences, the needs of the majority were met. This is in turn has made the originals more affordable for people like you who insist on vintage cars. For that reason I'm not sure why you wish to bite the hand that is feeding you?

I'd also say that your 75% figure is optimistic in the extreme. Most originals still cost at least twice what a re-release does, and even then you only see said originals appear on ebay once every few months, as opposed to the abundance of re-releases.

But then I see those same people being hyped in these forums by a sort of re-release "mania" where everybody starts to psych everybody else into thinking they want to buy every re-release.

And what sort of spending rate does that result in? How often do we see phrases like "Oh no Tamiya, now you've made me want to buy XXXX as well!". Fact is, the budget required to keep goose-stepping along to these "new releases" lists from Shizuoka is more than enough to be buying quite a wealth of period-correct vintage Tamiya stuff, if you actually like vintage stuff.

I think it's a bit unfair to assume that people are sheep-like, or that the "mania" is a product of people simply being influenced by other forum members. People were genuinely united in being stoked up in the Brusier thread simply because of how much of a huge event it was. And the budget required to keep up with re-releases is much, much smaller than that which is needed to tick off every vintage equivalent that you would want.

So the answer can only be: the notion of something being "vintage" or "original" doesn't really matter to the vast, vast majority of Tamiya fans anymore. Or certainly the ones here on Tamiyaclub.

It might not be the answer you want to hear but, yes, that is probably true.

Final comment: I would suggest you don't decide in 10 years time that you actually do want some period correct original model, and then try to create one via restoration of various used models. By then, the cross-pollination between original and re-re parts could be so vast it will be a nightmare to untangle all the differences. Look at all the trouble we all had on Wild Willy Mk1 vs Mk2 (and variations therein) for many years, not to mention the chemical analyses and laboratory tests people were performing on SRB black bumpers to try to determine if they were original or had been grey ones that were dyed etc. All of that madness will, I think, pale into nothing compared to the nightmare of re-re/original hybrids! Fun times ahead :-)

Yet if it wasn't for the re-releases, in 10 years time those same projects would have no chance of ever being finished at all because the vintage parts will have long dried up. Better for a vintage model to be restored using a small selection of re-release parts than be consigned to the dustbin, all in the name of "originality".

[bromvw 744]

Gentlemen , we all have our own reasons for being in this Hobby . What does it matter why so long as we enjoy it . What we build , collect or store is beyond the point . Personally without the releases i could'nt afford to build many of the classic SRB's i lusted after as a child and there's absolutely no way i'd have cut a old rough rider or scorcher about to customise one . As the saying go's you pay your money and make your choice , but to me i like that many of the old kits are now available again .

[Tamiya Era 778]

Cheers for this thread

Point to raise:

As a collector,, maybe the original will do the job.

As a runner,, then re-re will come soo handy compared to buying original stuffs every time u break one which will cost you ..lool

[atf300 28]

my 2 cents , i like building them , i love looking at them , but most i love to run them , so re res are great . But i do understand that people who are purely collectors might not like them as it lowers the value of the originals ,etc.

[chriss76 91]

I`m probably going to get some heat from this but I agree with the people that are in this hobby to re-live those great childhood memories, both original and re-res can give us that step back in time that some of us ??? are looking for.

I fully appreciate that some collectors would be frustrated/annoyed at losing even a small percentage of thier investment ...... however the purist hobbist will not as to an extent the money is not thier main intrest in this hobby.

If your wondering what my slant on all this is, well I have 6 nib re-res which will be built when the time is right and i`m able to create the look i`m after.

Finally i`d like to ask a question which after looking through many threads I still havent got an asnwer .... Those that have bought purely to invest i`m sure that from a buisness point of view you do realise that your investment is a ticking time bomb ???? if not then mabe what i`ve said is food for thought, there will be a few winners but many loosers.

I`m just glad I found both Tamiya and this forum as those are what makes me smile.

Cheers

Chris

[OCD 514]

Those that have bought purely to invest i`m sure that from a buisness point of view you do realise that your investment is a ticking time bomb ???? if not then mabe what i`ve said is food for thought, there will be a few winners but many loosers.

I think anyone who considers Tamiya a good 'investment' should have their heads examined, but I would like to hear from just one person that this strategy actually worked for them. Loads more fun than earning boring old interest or dividends, lol

[markbt73 5316]

I think anyone who considers Tamiya a good 'investment' should have their heads examined, but I would like to hear from just one person that this strategy actually worked for them. Loads more fun than earning boring old interest or dividends, lol

I would guess that the people who collect a lot of new-in-box kits don't see them as an investment, but rather a retirement hobby. They'll probably start cracking kits open in their sixties, and build their way through their golden years. At least that's what I'd do; after all, you can't take them with you.

[kiasukid 52]

- A NIB Original Supershot for AU$417 (prior to rereleases, this was regularly over $1000)

- A NIB, Sealed Original Blitzer Beetle for AU$200 (a couple of years ago, these were anywhere between $350 and $500)

The strong AUD has definitely helped you here. I still remember the painful days when the AUD only bought ~US 60 cents...

But then I see those same people being hyped in these forums by a sort of re-release "mania" where everybody starts to psych everybody else into thinking they want to buy every re-release.

And what sort of spending rate does that result in?

Drawing a parallel, there's plenty more mania surrounding the release of each new Apple ubergizmo. Isn't it great that Tamiya makes things that people want to buy?

So the answer can only be: the notion of something being "vintage" or "original" doesn't really matter to the vast, vast majority of Tamiya fans anymore. Or certainly the ones here on Tamiyaclub.

It is up to people to decide how to spend their money, and we should not think lesser of them spending 75% or less on a re-re which is 95% the same as the original, especially in these uncertain times. Toys are meant to be enjoyed, and given the choice of a AU$417 Supershot or a US$245 Super Hotshot, I would probably enjoy the Super Hotshot more as the Supershot would likely remain in the box.

[Japanscaledriver 14]

There are people who like the idea of the kit they just bought being over 20 years old.

Then there are people who just liked looking at the cars in the Tamiya catalog when they were kids and now that they can buy those cars relatively cheaply, they do.

I always wanted a Scorcher and managed to pick up a used one cheap back in 2005. But when they remade that kit, I bought two of them, one to build and one just to sit in the box.

Now though, I'm driving cars more often and so I have started shifting my interest to cars that are more likely to survive constant driving. I'll still have display cars, but my driving cars will more likely be from other companies.

Therefore, any new kits I buy will only be special kits from now on.

I'm also out of work for a while, so I have to cut back on buying.

Unless someone offers to buy some of my unwanted cars.

[speedy_w_beans 4272]

Do you all value originality so little that you'd rather pay 75% of the cost of an original, for a rerelease?

Call me a heretic, but in my eyes a NIB vintage original is worth 1/2 to 2/3 the value of a NIB re-release because it doesn't have fresh plastic, improved design to address weak points, updated technology (ESC vs. MSC), or overlap with Tamiya's current spare parts inventory (Hex dogbones? What are those?). Furthermore, most re-releases don't have any value to me because I didn't have RCs as a kid, so that tells you how much I value vintage as well -- not very much. With no sentiment towards the older kits, the build process and the driving experience are more important to me than the pureness and originality of a vintage model. When a car wears down to the point it needs a big investment to keep going, I break it down and keep the remaining good metal parts as general spare parts or fodder for a custom creation.

So what the heck am I doing messing around with Tamiya?

1) They have the broadest line of kits around, as far as I can tell, and the build process is an important part of the hobby to me.

2) I like the design and quality of several of their chassis, including TRF201, DB01R, TA05V2R, CR01, TB03, TT01R Type E, and DF02.

3) They make some nice body sets, but unfortunately they don't have the selection of wheels or tires like HPI does.

4) The driving experience is very satisfying with these modern chassis. I like lots of power and decent handling.

It's nice that people get to relive their childhood with NIB re-releases and drive them without guilt. It's also nice that NIB vintage original collectors are able to obtain their dreams at a better price point. But for me, it's all about modern chassis, big power, and great handling.

-Paul

[Saito 5]

I applaud Hibernaculum for going out on a limb with this topic as re-releases are whole are very popular with Tamiya enthusiast. I think most here have answered the question put forth with honesty and accuracy. I suppose a benefit of the re-res is that originals have fallen in price to levels where collectors of lesser means can now obtain kits that would have been out of their reach. Runners can now be revitalized with fresh parts but...for collectors of the originals the mismash of old and new parts IS going to be a mess. Where once there was joy in finally tracking down that elusive part, now there is concern. "Is it what I truely need/want or is someone passing off a re-re part as original?" The Tamiya hobby means different things to different people and thus the re-res are a curse and a blessing to the Tamiya faithful.

I do purchase re-releases for running purposes. Its fun to build a new/old design kit with fresh plastics and then take it out and run it like I would have in the 80's and not be terrified of breaking it. But, much like we lament the passing of brick and mortar hobby shops, so have the re-res changed the direction and "feel" of Tamiyaclub. The number of post in the vintage section has dropped while much of the action went into the re-release portion of the forum. There was alot of really neat post back in the day both nostalgic in nature and technical as well. I learned more about vintage Tamiyas and production variances then I could have imagined. I understand there are a finite number of those early cars and that eventually you run out of things to discuss, but I still miss it.

I have noticed with a certain uneasiness the mania that surround the re-releases coming down the pike. I've been caught up in it as well. The total unexpectedness of what dream Tamiya might make reality this month is intoxicating. Its great we all are interested in what they will bring out next. The only problem for us nostalgia buffs is we've seen these cars before. To really relive those early days we need to be excited about actual NEW Tamiya releases like we were way back when. Remember all the excitement surounding the High-Lift debut? Now, I admit its up to Tamiya to bring us those new enticing vehicles and things like the Varja aren't it while the re-res are "safe" to get excited about because they bring all that old-school goodness. It just seems when a batch of re-releases are announced, scratch builds and vinatage restorations take a back seat for awhile.

I'm not criticizing anyone for their taste. The hobby is unique to everyone. I'm just noting an evolution in the club that has been brought on in part by re-releases. We are in a very interesting situation that most enthusiast of ANY product line never find themselves in. How many other companies bring back old cherished products (not refering to reproduction) to the delight of their fans? I don't see Chevrolet bringing back a near copy of the '55 anytime soon. Its put us all in an interesting situtation filled with a quasi-old/new product line.

[j-man 0]

This is a great topic to read start to finish and there are some excellent points put forward from all sides.

My opinion is that i love originals, but i also love running my cars when i can find the time.

Re-releases are a great way of preserving the originals so to speak , but the downside seems to be the current affect on an original's price.

Yes originals seem cheap at the moment so grab them while you can.

I have no doubt in my mind that all originals will over time go back up in value when the dust settles.

After all there is NO SUBSTITUTE for the REAL THING.

[Sayer 742]

After all there is NO SUBSTITUTE for the REAL THING.

I think this thread proves that old axiom to be highly subjective at best.

[Daves956 157]

I've been watching a couple of local cars for sale just to see if they sell. They're a very nice frog and avante and have been listed at 100 and 350. In a month now they haven't moved where pretty much everything else has changed hands. I did see a big drop in price on all originals when the re res came on the market. They dropped somewhere around 50% of where they were. I don't see them going back up anytime soon either. I run pretty much everything here and what it's done is open up the potential on some old cars to be runners. A good example is the hornet or hornets here. I paid 20 for the runner and 10 for the parts car. 30 dollars for a running hornet and all the parts to keep it that way is hard to beat. On the opposite side are the frogs, 180 for the re re and 40 for the used. Given the chance I'd have done several old ones and still been ahead. I have a few new ones but mostly I buy the vintage in bulk whenever possible. The new ones are models and designs that were never out there back then but in truth they're more impulse buys that I probably shouldn't have made. The M05 has been run maybe 10 times compared to most in the 20s and 30s over the same time frame, it's a nice car but it doesn't hold my interest like the old ones do.

[F2 Stu 39]

From observation original vintage NIB kits are anything but cheaper than re-releases!

I'm anything but the anal hardcore collecter, couldn't care less if it was an original or not I'm more into the car than what's it is worth! But I think when original NIB kits are listed at over £1k for an egress or avante the world has truely gone mad!

My main interest is in madcaps and astutes, since neither have been re released I'm more than content to have old stuff...

[Hibernaculum 933]

Thanks for all the responses (Cheers Wandy and Saito). Appreciate all the input, and the thread has been much as I'd expected

Couple of follow-ups...

What you must keep in mind is that these are tough times for any company that isn't making mainstream commodity type merchandise. What Tamiya brings to the table in this day and age is simply a miracle in my eyes. While other companies tighten their belts and only commit to 'safe' design ideas (read: boring) Tamiya is still trying new ideas along with the old.

I would actually argue that, while it's nice of Tamiya to re-release all the classics, this also represents a pretty "safe" option for them. What could be safer than tapping into a pre-cooked market of nostalgic 30-somethings, and re-using old molds and designs to reproduce past products that people are already familiar with? While I agree there's no doubt the re-releases have been a success, there's also no doubt in my mind that they represent a cost-effective way to pad out their current range.

Also, when I say things like "I am not a fan of the re-releases", it's because I feel Tamiya is actually missing an opportunity by releasing (as you said) two varieties of models - either modern performance stuff OR classic re-releases. To me, there is a third option...

I realize the entire world is experiencing "tough times" right now, and perhaps Tamiya is in no position to do everything I'd like them to do. But shouldn't they be building on the positive nostalgia market by trying to tap into what we might call 'new nostalgia' items? I've said this many times before, but the best example is the Hi-Lift. That was a success, right? A kit composed a bit like an 80s model, but of an entirely different and new vehicle. Something fresh. These boards went ballistic for it.

Instead of doing the Sand Scorcher again or the Wild One again or the Supershot again, what about some other 70s/80s-infused desert racer model kit that looks the part and appeals to nostalgia fans, goes together a bit like an old kit (some metal bits, realistic, overengineered, but with fewer obvious weaknesses), and yet doesn't look like modern rubbish masquerading as something vintage-ish either (see: Baja King/Baja Champ).

If this all sounds like a silly idea, then what will Tamiya do when they run out of classics to re-release?

I fear they will simply go back to boring performance cars, or continue to rehash the classics in different chassis or purpose formats - e.g "Now let's put the Scorcher shell on a WW2 chassis!" or "Now let's make a 'street' version of the Bruiser!", and so on. Terrifying.

IMHO, the company is burning through it's history, when it could actually be leveraging at least some of that nostalgia toward genuinely fresh retro models that appeal to the 30-40 year old demographic (ie. this website). Maybe then they'd have something to re-release in 20 years from now!

The strong AUD has definitely helped you here. I still remember the painful days when the AUD only bought ~US 60 cents...

True, so do I. However, worth noting that a couple of years or so ago (prior to the GFC), the Aussie dollar was still near-parity with the US$ (as it is now). And despite this, a NIB Supershot still would have cost me around $1000 at that time.

But, much like we lament the passing of brick and mortar hobby shops, so have the re-res changed the direction and "feel" of Tamiyaclub. The number of post in the vintage section has dropped while much of the action went into the re-release portion of the forum. There was alot of really neat post back in the day both nostalgic in nature and technical as well. I learned more about vintage Tamiyas and production variances then I could have imagined. I understand there are a finite number of those early cars and that eventually you run out of things to discuss, but I still miss it.

So true.

I actually wonder if a lot of the responses in this thread also reflect the current user-base here on TC, as opposed to the times when people would debate Mk1 vs Mk2 Hotshots for 5 pages, and every little nuance and parts difference mattered. The archives are filled with it, but perhaps fewer of those members are still around.

From observation original vintage NIB kits are anything but cheaper than re-releases!

Nobody ever said otherwise

But I think when original NIB kits are listed at over £1k for an egress or avante the world has truely gone mad!

Perhaps, but what about a price of over $120,000 for a first edition copy of The Tales of Peter Rabbit?

My wife was telling me there was one such copy on eBay last night.

When it comes to "first issue" and "originality", and if you compare Tamiya models with other collectibles, what we view as "high prices" are a drop in the ocean.

It's also interesting to note that the difference between an original and re-release Tamiya kit are vast, compared with the difference between first and second edition copies of books - often nothing more than a word or two printed on one page. And we don't have to be talking about ancient books either - take the Twilight or Harry Potter series if you like, and look at the prices of first edition copies there. Compared to Tamiya differences, it seems boring to worry about whether the opening page of a book says "First" or "Second". Being fussy about Tamiya originals is a whole lot more fun.

cheers,

H.

[OCD 514]

Few things...

I would actually argue that, while it's nice of Tamiya to re-release all the classics, this also represents a pretty "safe" option for them. What could be safer than tapping into a pre-cooked market of nostalgic 30-somethings, and re-using old molds and designs to reproduce past products that people are already familiar with? While I agree there's no doubt the re-releases have been a success, there's also no doubt in my mind that they represent a cost-effective way to pad out their current range.

Actually, it sounds like we at least partially agree -- You left out the part where I stated that "[f]rom Tamiya's point of view, these models meet a demand with little to no development costs, and enables them to fund new models that are innovative and 'risky'." Maybe I wasn't clear, but I'm not particularly thrilled with the heavy dependency on their old designs. Just like you, I wish to see them be able to focus exclusively on new stuff like they do in boom years, but Tamiya is a very old company and certainly know how to survive the tough times. I just can't see how Tamiya's to blame here.

Also, when I say things like "I am not a fan of the re-releases", it's because I feel Tamiya is actually missing an opportunity by releasing (as you said) two varieties of models - either modern performance stuff OR classic re-releases. To me, there is a third option...

I realize the entire world is experiencing "tough times" right now, and perhaps Tamiya is in no position to do everything I'd like them to do. But shouldn't they be building on the positive nostalgia market by trying to tap into what we might call 'new nostalgia' items? I've said this many times before, but the best example is the Hi-Lift. That was a success, right? A kit composed a bit like an 80s model, but of an entirely different and new vehicle. Something fresh. These boards went ballistic for it.

I didn't see where I stated anything about "modern performance", but what about the new M06 chassis, the CR-01, TT Gear, additions to the 1/14 truck series, or Wheelie Type 2? I see lots of fresh ideas coming from Tamiya besides the High Lift series, and I've often been surprised by the chances they've taken.

Instead of doing the Sand Scorcher again or the Wild One again or the Supershot again, what about some other 70s/80s-infused desert racer model kit that looks the part and appeals to nostalgia fans, goes together a bit like an old kit (some metal bits, realistic, overengineered, but with fewer obvious weaknesses), and yet doesn't look like modern rubbish masquerading as something vintage-ish either (see: Baja King/Baja Champ).

You've just described the new Bruiser; Have a close look at it and you will see that Tamiya has completely redesigned this truck. The only similarities are the shape, color and name. The body is has been improved for more realism, the transmission is an absolute masterpiece of design, and the whole truck has been gone over to make it more efficient and practical. I'm actually in the process of building mine now, and having built a couple of the original 3spd trucks, all I can think is how well Tamiya has done their homework. Personally I would have liked that they gave it a entirely new name, but by combining the old with the new, Tamiya just may have pulled off the impossible feet of appealing to both groups of buyers. Again, playing it safe in order to make bigger things possible!

If this all sounds like a silly idea, then what will Tamiya do when they run out of classics to re-release?

I fear they will simply go back to boring performance cars, or continue to rehash the classics in different chassis or purpose formats - e.g "Now let's put the Scorcher shell on a WW2 chassis!" or "Now let's make a 'street' version of the Bruiser!", and so on. Terrifying.

I don't know what's so scary about this; Tamiya has always done cross platform swaps. How many different iterations of the SRB chassis have there been? Or the ORV? Your own example of the Blitzer Beetle is one of the worst offenders of this -- A Falcon with stadium racer wheels and a Monster Beetle body? Really? And yet Tamiya still sells zillions of these anyhow. Tamiya knows this is what works because we voted for it with our own money.

-Steve

[ralphee 293]

I buy original and rere, so i have to look at both ends of the spectrum. I do this PURELY to relive the days i used to hang with my cousin, and friends, racing them around the street and garden.

For that, a rere fits the bill, im not in this to make any money, im in it for FUN, i work for a living, and i have a pension, so hoarding boxes like a troll under a bridge to make a buck or two, ive always felt that a bit odd, but, horses for courses........i just wanted to have some fun before it really does get to late, building, modding, running, its all good.

lee

[Origineelreclamebord 45]

I'm not really into vintage models for running lately - Lesser handling and durability, bad parts availability, materials with age are degrading or have degraded, simple as that. Then there's poor prices for the parts of cars that haven't been re-re'd, not knowing whether all your investments on original spares will keep their value as they may be re-re'd, etc...

Yes, some look amazing, and I do value originality/authenticity, but not for running anymore as the re-re craze has gone on for too long.