Corpse Thrower 16 Posted July 30, 2012 As per the thread title, has anyone got one? The machine that could spell the death of the parts shortage...... Interested to know and see what people are making with theirs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matman 1499 Posted July 30, 2012 As per the thread title, has anyone got one? The machine that could spell the death of the parts shortage...... Interested to know and see what people are making with theirs! I have been looking into this my self . I was looking into http://store.solidoo...ute=common/home . Not to sure if they would be strong enough ?. It looks cheap enough . Would be nice to play with one & see how it goes . May just wait to see how they come along in time . I like the idea of it & wonder if it would fix parts as well ?. You can use different color plastic . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lupogtiboy 454 Posted July 30, 2012 I'd love a go on one of these things, think watching it shape and form something would be fascinating! Funny enough, I was browsing through a copy of Stuff magazine today and stumbled on this www.solidoodle.com they have just release a 3D printer for resonable money, around $500 us (around £300 in uk money!) called the solidoodle2, so could be a cheap way of delving into this area? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TA-Mark 195 Posted July 30, 2012 The extruded plastic printers have a very poor finish quality. Poor finish = poor exactness/accuracy in part making, which is one thing you need with RC parts. All of the cheaper printers are the extruded plastic type. In Australia you're looking at around AU$50k to get a quality 3d printer that will produce a part with accuracy and strength that could be used for more than just a rapid prototype (model of the finished part). With the costs like they are, you are better off outsourcing your 3d printing to existing companies who have these expensive machines that can produce ABS like quality parts. The other option is subractive methods (machining). Decent size 3 or 4 axis machines suitable for plastics can be gotten for around $2k (including programs and tooling). Machining acetol (delrin) or nylon for RC parts is still the most cost effective and accurate method for making parts yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy_w_beans 4272 Posted July 30, 2012 My co-worker has built one of his own and it's in his office at work. He's made a variety of things with it. We've talked about making custom RC parts with it, but there are maybe a few concerns: - He's had a hard time keeping large parts flat; they tend to lift off the base plate while printing, which skews the printing and introduces warpage. -The resolution of the extruder head means some post-processing is required; that is, holes will have to be drilled/reamed to final dimensions, flat surfaces need to be filled/sanded, etc. -At least with his printer, there's no option for fill material. -The print material he's using is a spool of ABS line fed into the extruder. I'm not sure reheated/extruded ABS yields parts with good wear characteristics or strength. I'd rather get blocks of nylon and delrin and machine the parts directly, and cut FRP/GRP directly... It's a lot of fun watching his printer print 3D objects, and sometimes the parts feel relatively strong. On the other hand, he's regularly fighting setup issues and printing second runs when the stepper motors miss a few pulses... He's joked with me that the people who have these printers actually spend more time printing upgrades than printing real target objects... Lol. -Paul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Origineelreclamebord 45 Posted July 30, 2012 @TA-Mark: I got my whole FF buggy prototype printed by an FDM Printer (Fused Deposit Modeling, a type of extrustion printing), and the parts seemed good enough on the pictures. Also, the guy who has the printer uses it for making gear casings too. So accuracy... it depends whether you're looking to get prototype parts or production finish parts. Anyway, I'd have a look at printing services if you're looking to make custom parts. If it's just for spares, stick with the spares, 3D printing high quality parts is possible, but the spares will still be cheaper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TA-Mark 195 Posted July 30, 2012 Fused Deposit Modeling isn't one of those cheap sub-$5k 3d printers. I've seen them for sale in the US for around $25k, but after enquiring with the Australian distributors and finding out our local prices, I went for a CNC mill instead. There's no comparison in the finish between fused deposit printers and the cheap extruded plastic printers. Another thing to mention is the powder used in these Fused Deposit Modeling 3d printers has a shelf life, and if not used will go off. Printing services are definately the way to go if you want custom parts printed. Edit: Oops, got the 3d printer types mixed up. Was thinking "Granular materials binding" which is where you get accurate parts. Objet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Percymon 2184 Posted July 30, 2012 Stu22 got a makerbot, althoguh not seen much in the way or reports of how good it is ... http://www.tamiyaclu...ng http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=61144&st=0&p=450037&hl=makerbotentry450037 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted July 30, 2012 on a parallel subject... anybody gotten into 3D scanning yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-bear 2321 Posted July 31, 2012 on a parallel subject... anybody gotten into 3D scanning yet? not yet, but about too. Autodesk have released some free programs that will make it easier - http://www.123dapp.com/ I haven't tried these yet, but will soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted July 31, 2012 ya that 123D is interesting how it can amalgamate a stack of nothing-too-special photos into a 3D model i'm told there's movement afoot to get a lot of museum & art gallery pieces scanned that way for public consumption for people who can't otherwise see the real thing. Worth cause! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-bear 2321 Posted August 1, 2012 ya that 123D is interesting how it can amalgamate a stack of nothing-too-special photos into a 3D model i'm told there's movement afoot to get a lot of museum & art gallery pieces scanned that way for public consumption for people who can't otherwise see the real thing. Worth cause! Its amazing how easier all this is becoming though. I've just bought myself a desktop 4-axis cnc machine from china. $1150 AUD all up landed. The manual was rubbish though, but still without too much trouble I've got the machine working, now I just have to learn how to use it! One of my plans is to take photos of cars that I can't buy bodies for, and using 123D make a 3D shape that I can mill in polystyrene. From there I should be able to make a positive that I vac form. A lot to learn all up, and given my pace on this will probably take me a year or so, but at least the technology is there to do it at a reasonably affordable price. Although I was lucky that I could buy the cnc machine for my business and use it for RC projects on the side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TA-Mark 195 Posted August 1, 2012 I've just bought myself a desktop 4-axis cnc machine from china. $1150 AUD all up landed. The manual was rubbish though, but still without too much trouble I've got the machine working, now I just have to learn how to use it! Which model did you get? I got the TS-3040-H80 a few weeks ago. The manual didn't cover any of the settings for the 4th axis (I have the settings for this axis worked out if you need them). The settings in the manual for the other 3 axis are correct. The supplied software is so out of date it's crazy (and unregistered - 1000 line limit), buy the latest release of Mach3. Don't forget to run some "square test" program codes. Mine was about 2mm out of square when it turned up and I needed to true the axis. You don't get the full "size" that the model number suggests. My X is 250mm usable (300mm), Y is 370mm usable (400mm), and the Z is 65mm usable (80mm), and that's before you consider room on the table for clamping the stock down. On the 4th axis the maximum stock you can fit under the mill is 50mm diameter. Too small to do a 1:10 body on. So far I've made a pile of chess pieces to get the setup and to test it out. Haven't started putting any RC part jobs on it yet. Then I have the problem of finding one of the plastic suppliers that will deal with the small guy and sell me some plastic stock (acetol and nylon). Contacted three suppliers so far and naught. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-bear 2321 Posted August 1, 2012 Which model did you get? I got the TS-3040-H80 a few weeks ago .... I got the very same one (dimensions sound the same too), and yeah the manual is ****, google was my friend there to get it up and running (thanks for the offer though). I've been testing with the demo version of Mach3, and will probably buy that, although what I bought this machine for (to cut MDF lettering in positive and negative), the demo will do that easily. There is also linuxcnc, but I haven't tried that one yet.My testing so far is showing thats its fairly true. But I've opted to learn a lot more about g-code before I go any further. Plus I'll probably do a cnc tafe course as I want to eventually cnc rims etc. With regard to car bodies my plan was to make slices in either polystyrene or polyurethane, ie a top half and bottom half and then mate them, cast a negative and then re-cast a positive (in clay probably), and sand/grind as needed before vac forming. If I can't do that then I make many vertical slices and fit them together, will have to see how it goes. Substrate wise, I run a sign and print shop, so I can source trade prices on plastics etc. I want to cut acetyl, to make swing arms etc. Well thats the plan anyway. I know a couple of cnc machinists and they don't think I am being too ambitious. The only drawback (apart from the size), is that I only purchased a 200W motor and I will probably need to upgrade if I want to mill aluminium etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-bear 2321 Posted August 1, 2012 ... Then I have the problem of finding one of the plastic suppliers that will deal with the small guy and sell me some plastic stock (acetol and nylon). Contacted three suppliers so far and naught. I just realised you are located in Australia, whereabouts? Also have you tried Mulford Plastics? we use them most of the time, but there are a number of other suppliers out there. If you have trouble, let me know what you want and I can get you price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillyChang 1814 Posted August 1, 2012 ...3D shape that I can mill in polystyrene. thermoplastics will deform with heat, also you can't cut too fast without it smoking believe the short-run body guys are using engineered wood, its like MDF but more resin than usual particle board. Cuts ok but quite rough on the bit, holds detail well enough and doesn't warp much under heat/pressure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TA-Mark 195 Posted August 1, 2012 thermoplastics will deform with heat, also you can't cut too fast without it smoking You need extremely sharp tools to cut plastics and use very low spindle speeds. I played around a little bit in some scrap acrylic and polystyrene. Once the tool has touched wood, MDF, or aluminium you can forget using it again with plastics. Use a spray bottle with some diluted detergent water as coolant on plastic. I have (had) the 200W motor too. The controller for the spindle motor died on the 2nd day (blew the rectifier and mosfet, exploded a cap and blew the main fuse in the switch on the rear of the box). I replaced it with a 250W dremel type tool with an ER11 collet with some new mounts. The controller box no longer controls the spindle, but it still works good with adjustable rpm and on/off switch on the tool itself. If you continue to use the supplied motor and spindle, I recommend you grab some new NSK skateboard bearings (yes it has 608ZZ bearings in the spindle), and fit them into the spindle tube. Cut a bearings width from the spacer tube, and fit two bearings on the bottom and one bearing on the top (currently has one top, and one bottom). The bearings last more than a few cuts when there's two on the bottom. I'm southern central QLD, west of Toowoomba. I'll give that plastics supplier a try and see what they can do for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-bear 2321 Posted August 1, 2012 You need extremely sharp tools to cut plastics and use very low spindle speeds. I played around a little bit in some scrap acrylic and polystyrene. Once the tool has touched wood, MDF, or aluminium you can forget using it again with plastics. Use a spray bottle with some diluted detergent water as coolant on plastic. Good tips thanks, I have read about not mixing the tips on some of the cnc forums, but I was wondering what to do about coolant. I have (had) the 200W motor too. The controller for the spindle motor died on the 2nd day (blew the rectifier and mosfet, exploded a cap and blew the main fuse in the switch on the rear of the box). I replaced it with a 250W dremel type tool with an ER11 collet with some new mounts. The controller box no longer controls the spindle, but it still works good with adjustable rpm and on/off switch on the tool itself. I was luckier, I just blew the fuse in the switch. When it first happened I open up the controller box to see what was going on and noticed most of the internal plugs weren't seated in properly. Easy to fix, but was a little surprised to see that.<br /> If you continue to use the supplied motor and spindle, I recommend you grab some new NSK skateboard bearings (yes it has 608ZZ bearings in the spindle), and fit them into the spindle tube. Cut a bearings width from the spacer tube, and fit two bearings on the bottom and one bearing on the top (currently has one top, and one bottom). The bearings last more than a few cuts when there's two on the bottom. Good tip also, I was expecting to have to modify this as I use it. I'd like to upgrade the motor to around 1300W though, as I want to mill aluminium and not have it take forever. But that is down the track. I'm southern central QLD, west of Toowoomba. I'll give that plastics supplier a try and see what they can do for me. I'm in South Brisbane. I understand it would be a bit of a drive, but a few of us are getting together this Sunday at Thornlands if you are interested, and hopefully for beach run in September. We try to get a run in once a month and a large portion of the cars are vintage. There are also some guys who run fortnightly on a track at the Boondall Entertainment Centre, but running faster cars a lot of the time, not a good mix with some vintage cars. Also check out E-Plas (ph 3341 6400), they supply acetyl, nylon etc as well, although I don't think I was quoted trade prices. Indicative pricing from them: an acetyl sheet at 620 mm x 1000 mm x 5 mm thick, in white was $181.00 + GST. Although since then I have worked out I'll need to get 10 mm or greater thickness. From Mulfords, (I definitely get trade pricing from them, but I haven't gotten sheet pricing yet), rod pricing was: 60 mm diameter, (have to buy in 3m lengths), at $74.13 per metre + GST for white acetyl and $89.89 per metre + GST for white Nylon. Also note that Mulfords will add on extra levies on top of their delivery charges as well, which can make delivery quite expensive for small orders.. I know of a couple of other supplies as well that I will try soon, I can send details once I find them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-bear 2321 Posted August 1, 2012 thermoplastics will deform with heat, also you can't cut too fast without it smoking believe the short-run body guys are using engineered wood, its like MDF but more resin than usual particle board. Cuts ok but quite rough on the bit, holds detail well enough and doesn't warp much under heat/pressure. yeah, good points. The polystyrene smoke is dangerous too if inhaled. But it does come is several grades and is very light to work with. The other is probably a urethane based product as a lot of signage people us polyurethane instead of wood now, plus is also great to mill/carve for mould making. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stu22 12 Posted August 4, 2012 Stu22 got a makerbot, althoguh not seen much in the way or reports of how good it is ... http://www.tamiyaclu...ng http://www.tamiyaclu...ot After a lot of tuning and tweaking, I'm sure I could make things like a-arms and various other parts. The Thing-o-Matic I have is getting parts down to +/-0.1mm for the x and y axis and a little under that for z, so yes there is some finishing work that would be needed for something you intend on racing but for bashing it would be fine. Of course I could spend more time on this and get to around half the error but that would make the printer the project and not the tool. As long as you print with 100% infill and some extra exterior shells the thing will be more than strong enough. The biggest problem you have is getting consistent filament. Variances in the cross section of what you use will cause all kinds of interesting problems. on a parallel subject... anybody gotten into 3D scanning yet? There are a few options out there for 3D scanning. It pretty much depends on what precision you need. One of the best options IMHO for scanning something the size of a human is ReconstructMe (http://reconstructme.net) It uses either an XBox Kinect, MS Kinect, or Asus Xtion camera. Since the camera's are intended to track something the size of a person you can't get fine details but it works great for stuff like Pez and bobble heads. Only real problem is you need the hardware to run it. I ended up getting a new notebook and graphics card for my desktop. I did build a structured light scanner using a pico projector and web cam but the amount of work getting the results cropped together kind of took the fun out of it. If I get the time I might put together a DAVID scanner (http://www.david-laserscanner.com/) just to see what happens, but I have pre-ordered a Leap sensor which looks like it has a lot of potential for scanning smaller objects (http://leapmotion.com/) Lately I haven't been doing much with the RC toys though. In fact, I still have a Leopard 2A6, HighLift HiLux, and a pair of Buggy Champs NIB and waiting to be put together. Have always wondered where all the vintage NIB kits came from and now find myself turning into a NIB collector. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stu22 12 Posted August 6, 2012 Fused Deposit Modeling isn't one of those cheap sub-$5k 3d printers... Actually it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fused_deposition_modeling FDM and FFF are the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TA-Mark 195 Posted August 6, 2012 Actually it is: http://en.wikipedia....sition_modeling FDM and FFF are the same thing. You missed the edit on the last line of the post? Already corrected myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stu22 12 Posted August 6, 2012 You missed the edit on the last line of the post? Already corrected myself. Sorry, not sure how I missed that, my bad. I actually though you were right as I've always heard about FFF for the RepRaps, thought it was different from FDM, but I couldn't figure out what the difference was between the two are. I sent an email out to a friend who has helped me tune my printer and knows a lot more about this than I do and got the reply this morning. Ended up I was wrong, and they are the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
