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Daves956

Tank upgrade questions

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I'm thinking about adding a tank and it's either a good used or new with the options. If it's used I think I found the option for turret rotation but not sure if it requires a multifunction controller. No luck on barrel elevation, sound, recoil or any other options that should or could be out there. I really want all the functions so if you can point out what not to buy or where to get good parts it would be great.

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I got a couple of options on the 1:16th tank. One is a Tamiya Sherman with no options and not much popping up for it. The other is a Henglong king tiger with upgraded track and turret. The Henglong needs sound but has everything else, including that it actually fires. I was surprised at what I found for parts on the Henglong.

One of my neighbors has this little terrier that enjoys chasing my cars. I wonder how these would play together? Slow enough to catch but barks back and fires BBs. It might turn the tide on who's chasing who.

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Hi Dave,

Which tank are you looking at? Generally the older non full option tanks are not financially viable to update to full option tanks. The older king tigers have a turret rotator and a strobe flash unit, but no sound or barrel elevation / recoil. The barrel elevation could be solved by using a servo, but the sound will require an MFU and DMD unit with connecting wire, which will set you back a minium of £200. The bodywork and turret of the old king tiger do not have the mounting points for the full option turret rotator or the barrel elevator, so I would advise against buying the vintage king tigers with a view to upgrading to full option. A lot of the older tanks also have a single gearbox with clutches in for steering, which given the age of the tank can also be an issue with the clutches slipping. The plus is that a 540 size motor is used in the old gearboxes, which gives a lot more torque when turning the tank. The disadvantage is that there is no possibility of doing spin turns (rotating the tracks in opposite direction).

From my experience of the tanks I've owned (Vintage king tiger, Full option Tiger I, Jagdpanther), each have their own advantages and disadvantages. The old king tigers are cheap, but the roadwheels wear easily when used off road. By this I mean they develop a lot of slop around the bearings and then flap about a bit on the axles. The plus is they are good off road with the wide tracks. The Full option tiger I is good off road, but the road wheels also wear (but not as bad the king tiger). The electronics and wiring are easy to lay out neatly inside the body of the tank and the turret, and it is well engineered and designed. If using off road, both the king tiger and tiger I road wheels suffer from getting twigs and leaves jammed between the roadwheels. The Jagdpanther (and panther) have a better design of roadwheel which is less prone to blockages. My Jagdpanther suspension fitted very well, but there were quality issues with the manufacture of the tank. (The upper body was warped and I had to file the lower hull to get the output shafts to come out from hull without fouling)

For more details on the Jagdpanther have a look at my build thread on it:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=63197

The panther has the same lower hull as the jagdpanther, but with a turret instead of the fixed hull. The turrets give the advantage of being able to swing the barrel sideways when going up or down steep slopes, when trying to hill climb with the jagdpanther you have to approach the hill at an angle to avoid sticking the barrel in. The good thing about the jagdpanther is that you don't have to worry about getting a turret to rotate smoothly.

I can highly recommend getting a tank. they're great fun, completely different from any other type of model. If you were feeling adventureous you could always look at getting a flakpanzer static model and convert to full RC. Its the only model with a rotating radar dish as well a moveable turret, elevating guns.

I get nearly all my tank parts from JR-RC on ebay.

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I got a couple of options on the 1:16th tank. One is a Tamiya Sherman with no options and not much popping up for it. The other is a Henglong king tiger with upgraded track and turret. The Henglong needs sound but has everything else, including that it actually fires. I was surprised at what I found for parts on the Henglong.

One of my neighbors has this little terrier that enjoys chasing my cars. I wonder how these would play together? Slow enough to catch but barks back and fires BBs. It might turn the tide on who's chasing who.

The Heng long tanks are much lower quality than the tamiya tanks. That's why there are so many upgrade parts! The heng long sound systems are generally considered quite inferior to the tamiya systems. The newer heng long tanks are considered to be of a bit better quality than the early ones, with better electrics. I believe the early heng long tanks did not have proportional speed control, but only 2 speed settings, so check the age of the Tiger I tank. If you want a Tiger I would go for the tamiya model. I would only consider buying a heng long tank if an equivilent tamiya was not available. By the time you've upgraded the HL so it doesn't break, you will have spent just as much mony as buying a good quality second hand full option Tamiya tiger I.

The old Sherman probably wont have anything available for it as parts either, unless there are compatible parts with the full option Sherman (such as track, idler wheels, body detail parts, etc). It would extremely doubtful that you would be able to find spares for the transmission system.

If it's your first tank I would go for a tamiya full option if cash is not too much of an issue. I think a heng long would probably be a bit of a disappointment in the quality department.

Tamiya have just done a release of the tiger I with a photo etch included and some extra parts for building different variants. If I could have only 1 tank I would probably go for either a Tiger I or a Panther (Which i don't have :( ).

There hasn't been a new tank design released since the Panzer IV so hopefully a new model will be coming along shortly, giving some extra choice :)

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I have a henglong snow leopard,the bb gun is very powerfull for a toy :) thinks like tamiya tracks ,metal wheels etc fit i belive,there a lot of fun

:)

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Given what's out there the Sherman is a no go. With it being my first tank of any kind I'm a bit skiddish on the 650 minimum price for a Tamiya tiger. With everything already done to the Henglong it would be a lot cheaper to finish the upgrades to it. I think the bb gun is a selling point too.

All metal drive with twin 540 motors is around 150 and thats tracks and all.

It might keep me busy for the winter if I go slow.

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Given what's out there the Sherman is a no go. With it being my first tank of any kind I'm a bit skiddish on the 650 minimum price for a Tamiya tiger. With everything already done to the Henglong it would be a lot cheaper to finish the upgrades to it. I think the bb gun is a selling point too.

All metal drive with twin 540 motors is around 150 and thats tracks and all.

It might keep me busy for the winter if I go slow.

Hi Dave,

Are you sure about the 540 motors ? As far as I know all the heng Long upgrade gearboxes use 380 or 400 size motors. If you have seen gearboxes for sale with 540s I'd be interested in a link to whose selling them. Pictures and thoughts of the tank in this thread when it arrives please :)

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Hi Dave,

Are you sure about the 540 motors ? As far as I know all the heng Long upgrade gearboxes use 380 or 400 size motors. If you have seen gearboxes for sale with 540s I'd be interested in a link to whose selling them. Pictures and thoughts of the tank in this thread when it arrives please :)

I read it in one of the ads on Ebay. I'm not finding it again and was doing more research on thier website to find out more about radios and specifics on what went with what and it looks like documentation isn't thier strongpoint.

Some of my concerns are about upgrades for the radio, motors and ESCs. These tend to be the weakest link in most of the Chinese knockoffs and would be the fastest way to be dissatisfied with it. They come with a 27mhz radio and that's a red flag to me. If it can't be upgraded to a 2.4 without starting over with the function controller and all it's running then it might be a deal breaker.

I have a Nikko motorcycle here that's a great model but the electronics are such junk it may end up in the trash. I don't want to get into the same thing with a tank.

So far in just the digging up info, it looks well detailed and there are quite a few nice upgrade items for them.

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I read it in one of the ads on Ebay. I'm not finding it again and was doing more research on thier website to find out more about radios and specifics on what went with what and it looks like documentation isn't thier strongpoint.

Some of my concerns are about upgrades for the radio, motors and ESCs. These tend to be the weakest link in most of the Chinese knockoffs and would be the fastest way to be dissatisfied with it. They come with a 27mhz radio and that's a red flag to me. If it can't be upgraded to a 2.4 without starting over with the function controller and all it's running then it might be a deal breaker.

I have a Nikko motorcycle here that's a great model but the electronics are such junk it may end up in the trash. I don't want to get into the same thing with a tank.

So far in just the digging up info, it looks well detailed and there are quite a few nice upgrade items for them.

I had a look at a HL tiger for friend when it wasn't working, and the electronics are basic to say the least. I can't remember if the RX was separate from the motor controller, but the motor controller was just a circuit board with wires coming out. I think the RX was fairly well integrated as well as the operating frequency was set using a switch on the underside of the tank, rather than changing a xtal. However, the tiger is big model, there would be nothing stopping you from cutting the electrics out, then wiring in a tamiya MFU and DMD unit (Except the cost of course). Not sure about being able to operate the BB unit off the MFU mind (May have incompatible voltages, etc.).

PS, if you are looking for a second hand tank, the tamiya full option king tigers and tiger Is often sell on ebay for under £400 inclduing radio gear. Still a lot more than a HL, but much cheaper than a new build tamiya.

I've also dug up this old thread I did from a year ago, where I used some 6 channel RC gear and a couple of electronic speedos to upgrade a vintage king tiger. http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=61264

OK there's not smoke or sound or BBs, but you can still have a lot of fun with these things and they sometimes sell cheap. You then get the better torsion bar suspension of the tamiya model (The HL tanks have coil springs on the outside of the hull).

If you can, have a look at a HL and a tamiya tank in the flesh, and you'll see where the extra money goes into the tamiya model. I'd also have a listen to some videos on youtube, you should be able to tell the difference. With the HL tanks you can easily hear the gearboxes over the sound system, whereas the tamiya tanks tend to drown out the gearboxes with the sound system.

The old vintage tanks still be fun without the full option bits anyway:

here's how I built the gearbox in one of them:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=61264

Of course, if you're feeling masochistic, you could always build your own tank from scratch =>

;)

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I looked at all the pictures I could find since a manual doesn't pop up anywhere on the HL. It appears to drive the motors straight from the reciever board. Not good. The MF unit has a special connector to the reciever board and the transmitter is not standard so it has to be one of thiers. Also not good. I found a Tamiya MF unit for a tiger and with it's part # 7305066 I got a complete no go at Tamiya USA and Tower. No idea what else it might need or will control. Again not good. I'm sensing a trend on this whole idea and it's definately....not good. I originally started with looking at the MF units to have the functions I wanted to decide if a tank was a good idea or not, and now I'm back to the same point but with more questions than when I started

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Ok, here's an idea. This HL tank has to use a 4+ channel transmitter and reciever pair. They're doing it cheap so most likely made by some other local company to thier specs. Standard issue is 27 MHZ with a possibility of three frequencies on that band. What do you think my chances are of finding a standard reciever (4 channel) to piggyback thier reciever board? This would only be for motor/ESC control but could maybe be expanded later. This is just an idea so feel free to burst my bubble on it.

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Ok Guys,

on Allot of accounts your wrong about the Heng Long Tanks,

Ive split up over 100 of these in 2 years and sold the parts on ebay unitl reacently,

Heng Long tanks

3 versions available as std

Basic with 3 channel 27mhz radio built in, basic bourd & No smoke or sound. only 2 speed radio with 3 channels,

Smoke & Sound versions, 27Mhz radio gear with changable crystals and proportional speed, RX18 mfu, plastic tracks and gearbox's.

Pro version, with smoke, sound, 27mhz radio with changable crystals (10 frequancy's avalable),

RX 18 mfu, proportional speed, metal gearbox's, metal tracks, metal drive sprockets,

(for the king Tiger this version is about £158 new)

all heng long tanks have BB firing or I/R battle system, (not compatable with tamiya)

tanks available include

Panther,

Jagdpanther,

stug III

Panzer III

Panzer IV

Tiger I

King Tiger

Walker Bulldog

Perishing (called the snow leopard)

KV 1

and there are more models due out next year

quality did start very bad but has improved greatly over the past 2 years

price's start at about £70 new and rise to £150+

steel gearbox's with 3.1 ratio should be approx £35

they run 380 motors as std which can be upgraded to 400 motors

Very easy to work on and allot more robust than tamiya's in allot of ways + allot cheaper to repair,

The sound is awfull but easily fixed with a new speaker and volume control,

the RX 18 is good and has all plug in connections (extreamly easy to work on)

radio gear can be upgraded to take 2.4 (very cheap conversion)

I/R Battle system can be upgraded for approx £20 to make it compatable with both Tamiya & Heng Long

and there are just as many metal and other upgrades as there are for tamiya

all together value for money I would go Heng Long Pro version

and std receivers do not work with heng long tanks (unless you do the 2.4 receiver conversion)

and there are torsion bar chassis avalable from companys like asiatam (Tiger 1 chassis with ajustable idlers metal suspention arms, torsion bars & metal hull like tamiya's & quick release for the upper hull, including rear panel is just under £50)

if you need any more info let me know and I will send links etc through PM

they are extreamly good these days for the money

Pete

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Well thank you so very much. I will be going for the Tiger next weekend and there is it's compatriot snow leopard (pershing) that shares a lot of parts in the works too. I'll go for the volume control and 2.4 upgrade while I'm at it. Thanks again Pete

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Took a bit of digging and some Emails back and forth but this is worth mention. I located a 2.4 upgrade with a Turnigy radio set all setup to just plug in and go for 80 plus shipping from down under. I've never dealt with Turnigy but it looks well worth it. Anybody have any experience with the Turnigy brand?

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The radio won't be available until after the end of this week so it's on hold for now. Good thing too since the local HL tiger deal has fallen through.

This was meant to be a slow winter build so something RTR isn't the best game plan but it's not out of the question. On the up side there's a pershing that looks like it will be the winter project with all the upgrades being added to it. Sometimes it's good to have backup plans when the first one falls through.

Thanks Tom

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There are allot of good suppliers in the USA & Canada, that sell at very good rates,

if you still want a tiger I can check a few of the suppliers that I know of in the USA & Canada.

Pete

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There are allot of good suppliers in the USA & Canada, that sell at very good rates,

if you still want a tiger I can check a few of the suppliers that I know of in the USA & Canada.

Pete

There are some really good deals coming out of California and Canada for RTRs. I haven't ruled anything out except the vintage Sherman here locally. By the time it's upgraded to function it's hundreds more than a complete kit. I think the snow leopard will fit into the plans nicely. Something I can upgrade and run all winter long regardless of the conditions outside.

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I've noticed some things during the time I've been looking for and at tanks. First is that they almost never come up on the local market. Second is that if they do there's some kind of flaw to them. Right now there's a Tamiya Sherman under original price but has no options and adding options to it would drive the price over new. I've seen two of the Henglongs and both are basicly stock but priced over new cost. There's a bulldog that just came up for sale at 95 when the same basic model sells for 80 including shipping. It makes me wonder what the owners of these are thinking or see in the models they have.

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I've noticed some things during the time I've been looking for and at tanks. First is that they almost never come up on the local market. Second is that if they do there's some kind of flaw to them. Right now there's a Tamiya Sherman under original price but has no options and adding options to it would drive the price over new. I've seen two of the Henglongs and both are basicly stock but priced over new cost. There's a bulldog that just came up for sale at 95 when the same basic model sells for 80 including shipping. It makes me wonder what the owners of these are thinking or see in the models they have.

The sherman is probably priced the way it is if it's an original vintage tank. The full option shermans are effectively a 're-re' of the original sherman, but with upgrades. Then you get into the 'Why pay X for an original tamiya when I can get a newer re-re for less and it's new?' argument. As for the HL tanks, no idea, unless the owners are looking at the cost of the newer better quality tanks, and pricing their older ones to match that hoping people won't know the difference.

I've also noticed that you very rarely see second hand full option tamiya tanks for sale. You see the odd tiger I for sale on ebay, maybe a king tiger now and then or a sherman, but I've never seen a full option Panther or jagdpanther for sale. I've seen a couple of panzer IV recently, these may be less popular than the bigger tanks as the off road performance is not as good.

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I've got a friend here locally that has the sherman and a few others from both makers. I'm going to go see him tomorrow and discuss the issues. I've got a few things in transit right now, so hopefully within the next few days I'll find a good direction on this. I do think that the H L is a good place to start just because it's less expensive but has all the possible functions. It may turn out to be an inferior product but for a first tank it has merit. I could buy another brand later or decide I just don't like tanks.

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I've got a friend here locally that has the sherman and a few others from both makers. I'm going to go see him tomorrow and discuss the issues. I've got a few things in transit right now, so hopefully within the next few days I'll find a good direction on this. I do think that the H L is a good place to start just because it's less expensive but has all the possible functions. It may turn out to be an inferior product but for a first tank it has merit. I could buy another brand later or decide I just don't like tanks.

Sounds like a sensible way to go. My first tank was a vintage tamiya king tiger I picked up NIB for £170 from JR-RC. I could have spent £300 on a full option one but decided I didn't want to spend that kind of money on a first tank. Unfortunately after that first one I got somewhat hooked :). A HL is definetly a good way to go to see if you are going to get fun from a tank, especially as a lot of the fun in tanks is in the painting / weathering, adding detail parts, etc. The HLs look a bit plasticy out fo the box, but it's amazing what you can do with a bit of detailing and some good paint. I was recently thinking about getting one of the HL Stug III tanks, but they are a bit of a rarity now, and I would really like to go down the route of scratch building a Entwicklung E25 as my next project after I finish my king tiger gearboxes, and the Stug would just get in the way. Look forward to see what you end up with.

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The postman likes me, he came back a second time just to drop off a box for me. I needed a pick me up after this week and Monday I placed an order with RC Mart in California and it's here. I had some funds in Paypal that needed spent anyway.

I started looking at the tanks after seeing some of the videos posted here, so that's pretty much my only point of reference for Tamiya tanks. This one has the volume control and you can't hear anything but an occasional squeak from the metal tracks and that just adds to the realism. The detail is really good and it runs fully proportional in all directions. The turret and firing with recoil is too much fun. Everything about it is just flawless. I couldn't be happier with it. I'd recommend this brand to anyone.

The postman will be back next Tuesday with it's running mate/winter project and I know exactly what to do with it.

After shooting over the dogs head the neighbor came and got it. They liked the tank but understood.

IMG_1434_zps7330b7d8.jpg If I had to find a fault with it out of the box it's the BBs. There aren't enough in that little box :D

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Tamiya is like the Porsche or Ferrari brand. Good quality but at a price. HL is like the Corvette, can keep up with the Por & Fer, a bit rough but great "bang" for the bucks. HL's BB (reach out and touch someone's pet) is more fun than Tamiya's flash recoil gun (aka paper tiger). I think HL copied Tamiya for the basic design and Mauri for the BB shot, best of both world. Good old R&D (research and duplicate) :D

Tanks are fun, but after a while I wish they would go faster. :blink: If one is into climbing capabilities, Koysho's Blizzard is great for fresh /powder snow (let see a tank handle that), sand, grass... bring'em on. The nitro or electric version??? that would be another topic for discussion.

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