F103 questions

[matman]

Just remember , The F104 has the thrustbearing built into the gear / spur side & NOT in the Wheel .

So this is why it has the short axle . I could pull my F104 apart & see if the hole lot would fit

the F103 chassis , That i'm sure it would . Then you can have the F104 rear set up .

Then again , the F103 did have the same thing as well . Where you can change the ride hight .

This is where the problem lies , F103 thrust system is in the wheel &

The F104 the thrust system is in the spur / Gear parts & NOT in the wheel .

Have you even looked @ the manual of the too ????. So you can "SEE" the difference .

I will pull apart my F104 & take pic's & the F103 as well & see if the F104 & F103 hole rear

will fit .....

[matman]

Rear end F104 pro .

Chassis F104 pro with F103 rear diff case . I had not put it all together .

Hole line up .

F104 pro Diff with the thrust system in the diff .

F103 left & F104 right wheels . F103 has the thrust in wheel .

The diff of the two .

F103 hop up parts @ the time . Diff housing parts.

F103 diff housing part

F103 bag of adjusters & the diff spacing collier .

F104 left & F103 right axle differences . Just the length of the .

[matman]

You could also , Just get the F104 gear / spur side & axle & the rest would fit .

So the F104 wheels would go on . As long as you have got ( but not necessary needed )

The diff adjuster for the height as you can see in my pic's above .

But don't have to have to get you going .

This is old school F103 diff housing with F104 pro wheel too wheel set up .

Like this & you can see the spacer not used , unless you get the adjuster type .

[Daves956]

Thsnk you for the pictures. It looks like the F104 will fit in the 103. It also appears they got the width back by moving the spur out a bit and explains the narrower tires and wheels.

[matman]

<p>The Rim on the F104 is bigger than the F103 as well .

F103 compaired too the F104

[Daves956]

It would be good to hear the bolt hole dimensions from the T bar on the 103 vs 104.

[Percymon]

Matman - many thanks for your time n effort

I've looked at more manuals than I care to mention; part of my problem is the subtle differences in the variants of f103 and F104, not helped by tamiya parts suppliers descriptions and fitments.

It's clear there isn't much difference in the gear casings and the ride height adjustment isn't huge (as Dave stated early on).

I think I have the parts to do what I need but until they all arrive I can't say for certain

Thanks again for pulling bits apart and taking the photos

[Daves956]

The pictures are great. It pointed out an option I'd never even thought of. All those nice pieces for the F104 will go straight into my group C jaguars with no mods. I've looked and upgrades for them don't exist so this is just wonderful.

[Percymon]

I've looked and upgrades for them don't exist so this is just wonderful.

The lack of a list of optional/hop-up parts in some of the F10x manuals has given me plenty of frustration so I can understand your problem !

[matman]

It would be good to hear the bolt hole dimensions from the T bar on the 103 vs 104.

The four screws that hold the diff are the same as the F103 , as per pic's .

But that is about it , I can see that the t bar would fit the F103 , BUT would

need to be trimmed & holes drilled . Then again may no be long enough on the T side .

I know there are alot of T bars for the F103 .

Look at pic's too see what i mean . Thanks .

F103 left & F104 right .

F104 T bar .

F103 T bar.

Sorry if this has not helped you .

[Percymon]

Talk about a eureka moment - i only just realised the gearcase and t bar are not symmetrical. No wonder i was struggling to make things even (thats what happens when you are part building whilst waiting for gear cases

I've also realised form checking F104 manual 58447 that all the bevel washers, thrust bearing and alloy step spacer all go on the outside of the wheel - it looks blooming ugly and thats also partly explains some of my issue - it just looks wrong !!

[matman]

Talk about a eureka moment - i only just realised the gearcase and t bar are not symmetrical. No wonder i was struggling to make things even (thats what happens when you are part building whilst waiting for gear cases

I've also realised form checking F104 manual 58447 that all the bevel washers, thrust bearing and alloy step spacer all go on the outside of the wheel - it looks blooming ugly and thats also partly explains some of my issue - it just looks wrong !!

Ok , Mine is so far different from the F104 . But then again ! , Is it because of the rubber tyres ?.

+ Daves956 said the same thing . Put the stuff on the out side of the rim . Looks **** ! that way .

Did you put the T bar the wrong way around or some thing ?.

Also another thing , if all of that wheel & thrust bearing & the other stuff go on the rim . What about the

wheel axle being long enough ? . As the F103 may not be long enough as well ?.

[Daves956]

The F103 and 102 both come out to the right length with the rubber wheels and thrust on the outside.

And yet another question answered. I've been seriously debating using a T bar to offset the rear in the 956s but was worried about how it might effect it with it not being centered. I hadn't noticed the F103 was already shifted. So in effect I've already seen the result and didn't know it. I see a custom chassis in the near future. 956 rear motor mount is the same width and would just need 2 holes added to make it fit a T bar.

This thread has been great.

[Percymon]

@matman

I've not built up the back end yet, and that's part of my original confusion.

The car arrived, i stripped it all down and threw all parts i was replacing/upgrading in a box. I built the F104 wheels n rubber tyres up, then decided to do the entire rear axle using the original steel item with new balls, plates, 04M RD spur, thrust bearings and the blue bling axles/diff plates. So all this was built without any gear casing (i thought it would just be easy to slip off the non spur short axle, fit into gearcase and then reattach wheel and add the T bar etc. Had i had the new gearcase to hand (or mocked it up witht he old F103 items ) it would have been a lot more obvious about the offset !!

The F104, F104W, F104Pro are all different to various degrees, some sharing items with the F103, and some being bespoke to that chassis

If nothing else this thread will hopefully help another F1 numpty in the future  

[Skottoman]

I don't have an F103, or F104, but this sure was an interesting read, and shows how people work together to figure all this stuff out!

Cheers,

Skottoman

[alfagta]

hi fella's ,

its a bit late but, if you are gonna mess with the f103 then go straight here, http://www.rcmart.com/tamiya-f103-c-595_744_1221.html?page=1&sort=1a ,

all the wheels, rubber tyres in every compound and hop ups you will ever need for the 103 and no chance of buying the wrong stuff ,

rc mart even sponsor the asia f1 race series for the past few years , i havent found better in 15 years of rc'ing,

all the best

[Percymon]

there's a fair bit of race set-up info on Jonathan Vickery's site, albeit not very up to date

http://jvmotorsport.co.uk/?p=34

[matman]

Ok , I have seen that the postman has given you your bits , So how are you going M8 .

[Percymon]

Well i took these pictures a few days ago..

At this stage I had...

original F103 lower chassis plate and FRP T bar

hop-up F103 carbon fibre long upper chassis deck

F104 carbon reinforced gearcase *

F103 hop up blue alloy diff/axle parts, F103 axle and F104 wheels n rubber tyres

The F104 gearcase aligns with the F103 T bar holes. But the front face of the gearcase is higher than that of the F103 part, the mounting posts for the friction plate are higher. In the above pics i have the F104 gearcase on the sides (for the height adjustment and on the rear face), original F103 part on the front face.

The F104 gearcase came with a lower difusser part, which will fit between the gearcase and the T bar - I did a trial fit with the diffuser included but the spur gear seemed to foul on the diffuser. At this time i did not have the F104 S parts , the inserts into the sides of the gearcase which allows ridfe height adjustment) so perhaps this will fit, perhaps only with the smaller of the two spur gears ?

I now have the S parts, carbon driveshaft/spacer and the carbon friction plate, so should be able to get the rear end finalised tonight

[Grastens]

I will admit that is an interesting look to the chassis, namely the 'crab track' effect with the narrower rear track v. the wide front.

Following this thread with interest!

[Percymon]

<p>

I will admit that is an interesting look to the chassis, namely the 'crab track' effect with the narrower rear track v. the wide front.

Following this thread with interest!

the pics don't half exagerate things ! and note there were no bearings in the frotn wheels at that stage either so they are resting on the locknuts

[Daves956]

I think it's just perspective.

But seriously, this ones altered to include 2 7mm spacers, so it's only 1.5mm narrower. But it looks wider from this angle.