RENKEN 2000

Re-releases are KILLING the hobby

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Imo re rereleases are killing the old school and Vintage collecters hobbies. If its vintage Tamiya or old school bmx... or other hobbie's

The fun collecting and saving is out of reach with this. If you can buy it optical old, new !!! :(

Of course it is technically different with the vintage reissue. But the appearance is the same. And for the younger generation is no difference.

cheers Patric

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I don't get it. How is re issuing old unobtainable kits to a new generation of RCers or those of us that couldn't afford them first time around, killing the hobby?

Are you saying its because the are rereleased on updated chassis that make them easier to drive? I can understand those that get their rose tinted glasses smudged but I still can't see how it kills the hobby.

Even if you're one of those people that's been stockpiling vintage kits in the hope of making profit on them and now you're getting miffed that Tamiya keep rereleasing them will devalue them? You still have a valuable "original" kit... I would argue these people ARE killing the hobby. But then I build and drive all my cars and have fun with them.

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Imo re rereleases are killing the old school and Vintage collecters hobbies. If its vintage Tamiya or old school bmx... or other hobbie's

The fun collecting and saving is out of reach with this. If you can buy it optical old, new !!! :(

Of course it is technically different with the vintage reissue. But the appearance is the same. And for the younger generation is no difference.

cheers Patric

Don't think so what tamiy did is great and i bet all the other companies back in the day like kyosho wish they did not scrap all there tooling and stuff and could do what tamiya is doing...my opinion MR TAMIYA = SMART MAN!!!

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I love re-releases. It allows new generations to enjoy things I had in the past and affords me the ability to run my cars how I want. The re-releases have been slightly varied from the originals so there is no mistaking which is which. Also, if you were counting on retiring with money off old toysI hate to say it, but there are much better ways like retirement planning and stocks and such. The group that values these cars is small and nothing like real collector cars. Let's not forget we are grown men playing with toys that spark nostalgia for us to a "better" time or golden youth. That being said, bring on more Re-releases! Also, if someone would just re-re this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

dayglow_orange3_lg_zps50551dfd.jpg

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I really don't understand this argument.

If you collect vintage cars, how do the re-releases affect you at all? The same number of cars and parts are still out there, prices and desirability still fluctuate, some bits are still near impossible to get, some people are making money and some are losing it. What has really changed?

The vintage market doesn't really help the hobby as a whole. Parts and cars pass from collector to collector, none of the money goes to Tamiya for them to invest in future products.

What Tamiya and many others are tapping into is the nostalgia market, giving us the chance to buy cars very similar to those we had or wanted when we were younger. The chance to buy these cars as new kits, with spares availability and fresh tyres and that wonderful new kit smell (as opposed to that not so wonderful 30 years in someones loft smell!).

So why is there a problem? The vintage cars are still out there for vintage collectors, those of us who want to can buy new re-release kits and Tamiya obviously make money on the re-releases, money to invest in the continuation of this great hobby of ours.

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What's "killing" the hobby is the lack of vehicles available in kit form, the "me too" product development plan of seeing what other companies are doing rather than taking a chance on something new, and a blurring of the line between toy-grade and hobby-grade. Tamiya re-releases are the last line of defense from all those things.

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I love re-releases. It allows new generations to enjoy things I had in the past and affords me the ability to run my cars how I want. The re-releases have been slightly varied from the originals so there is no mistaking which is which. Also, if you were counting on retiring with money off old toysI hate to say it, but there are much better ways like retirement planning and stocks and such. The group that values these cars is small and nothing like real collector cars. Let's not forget we are grown men playing with toys that spark nostalgia for us to a "better" time or golden youth. That being said, bring on more Re-releases! Also, if someone would just re-re this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

dayglow_orange3_lg_zps50551dfd.jpg

Nice in the late 80's 90's I had a haro master was a haro fan freesylin and quarter pipen!!... i kind of still have it gave it to my brother for his kids and they all got older now and never hardly used it and still have it ...one day i will get it back ;)

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Re-releases may be killing the collecting hobby to a certain extent, but I for one am in the hobby as an enthusiast and driver because of re-releases. I noticed lately that my collection is being built up with old-school cars or re-releases, and the latter are the only way I can either afford them, drive them like I want to, or both. It is true that an original F103RS got me into the hobby, but thanks to the re-release Buggy Champ and the new-edition Avante Black Special I have made the hobby one of my passions.

It has in turn led me to acquire certain vintage kits, like the Astute and the Striker, as re-releases of those are non-existent yet thanks to other models being made again they pique my curiosity. So actually, by that argument re-releases are in fact assisting the vintage market as people are rediscovering the older kits. Maybe not the majority of people, but some like me are looking at those older models that have yet to be produced again and acquiring them, running them for the experience they provide...

Were it not for re-releases, I would definitely be getting much less out of this hobby than I am now. Unless I am in fact the problem, I find it very difficult to see how these new-old models are killing it.

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I don't understand this point but I really want to at least "see it" to get some perspective. Do vintage collectors collect for money or the love of collecting old Tamiyas. If its money, then yes, the re-res are definately impacting that. However if someone collects for the love of the vintage vehicles than the re-res mean nothing. They are not true vintage. If anything they help collectors by driving down the prices of the originals making them easier to obtain. If you love the objects in your collection, why does it matter what they are going for on evilbay? Now Hib has brought up an issue in the past that does threaten vintage collecting. Re-re parts can now dilute a model's originallity since they're out there floating around. Of course extra vigilance is required as some re-res may be misrepresented a vintage.

Here's what's really threatening Tamiya. Lack of NEW desireable "future classics". Look at what's around that's not a re-release. Just how many incarnations of the DF-02, DT-02 and now the WR-O1 and Lunch Box chassis do we need? When was the last truely unique, quirky Tamiya-style vehicle we've seen? The High Lift, TXT-1 and CR-01 were the last I recall. They were fresh and totally Tamiya. I know Tamiya has always reused chassis but at least every vehicle in the Hot Shot series had its own personality. Just how different is a Desert Gator from a Sand Viper? The re-res are great but we need some fresh future classics.

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Ask yourself how did the Vintage collectors market get started? Answer, via Internet and EBay. Before the Internet, you could walk into a shop and pick up a used SS or RR for peanuts.

Come the Internet and EBay and a superficial market was created. eBay created an online market and crazed demand. Hence one mans trash really became another mans treasure. I call it superficial because of the astronomical prices some of these toys achieved. In the end, they are toys not Vintage vehicles.

Nonetheless the market was created and its going strong. The original manufactuers of these toys took notice. A very smart one named Tamiya was wise enough to say what if we were to re-release some of these kits and cash in on that demand. They took a chance and seem to be doing alright by that decision.

Most of us who sold our kits as a kid were afforded a chance to by them again and feel nostalgic. Yet another group may have not had the means back then, now they can.

I can understand the ire of someone who paid $1000 for a kit and it lost its value because of a rerelease. However you took a risk and that risk is no longer worth what it was.

What amuses me about the collectors is that they think Tamiya really cares about this superficial market that's been created. Why should they? They receive 0 revenue from it. So the only benefit they receive is the recognition of a Sand Scorcher NIB selling for thousand of dollars.

Sorry but recognition does not equate to new revenue. Tamiya is out to make money. So what factored into their business strategy was cashing in on the demand for their older kits.

By the way: I own a shelf queen Kyosho Turbo Scorpion that's never ran. Present value is $600 or so. If Kyosho were to re-re it, I would be jumping for joy and buying one... Even of it means my original would be worth $200.

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Same old argument,

in my opinion there are two types of collectors

1) Those out to make money at some point from stock pileing

2) Genuine collectors

a genuine collector would be happy about the re releases because it means that "vintage car" that cost so much to restore that they are afraid to use it can now sit on the shelf and they can go out and buy a re release to run, (who wants to run tyres that cost more new than on their real car ?)

on top of this there's the price drop period when prices drop because all of the "collectors" that think they are going to loose out on money dump everything on ebay and flood the market bringing prices down for genuine vintage parts,

a genuine collector would be happy to know that he has originals not re releases in his collection, and as we all know Vintage kits are still worth allot more than re re's, (sand scorcher is a good example new re re £400 original £1250 +)

We cant all afford 30+ 3 speeds & SRB's and most on here would be happy to have just 1 original and a re re to run,

The only down side that I can see is when some ebay sellers try to pass off re issue parts as vintage,

so where's the down side ?

as for those that stock pile for profit its like anything the market can and will eventully crash somewhere along the line and then they have to wait for it to pick up again (just like the classic car market did in the late 80's when E Type jaguars where fetching £650k + and now you can get a fully restored one for £40k) so no diffrence,

so realy it depends on how you look at the market as a real collector who still enjoys the chaise for vintage parts and kits or as a "collector" trying to make a money making investment,

thats how I see it

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Re releases were the best thing that happened in my opinion. It means that I can own a brand new sand scorcher for about £250, happy days!

Or I could of course pay someone about £1000 (or more??, no idea what they go for) for an original nib scorcher just so I can say it was made 30 years ago. Heck there was an empty box on ebay recently for £400.

Most of my friends aren't into this hobby and think I'm mad spending £99 on a lunchbox. If I had a vintage collection and told people I have unbuilt rc toys that were worth 4 figures and show off unblemished bloster packaging they'd send me to the looney bin!

The more re re the better cos makes up for not buying them in the 80's, or if you did buy them not keeping them

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& What about the parts that never went out of production in 25+ years

the lunchbox went on to be the pumpkin which sold for years without being discontinued or changed until the re release when they did the chrome body and changed just the body in minor ways is the lunchbox/pumpkin chassis still vintage as it hasn't gone out of production ? or is it re re ? same parts and mold ............

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I got into the hobby AFTER the re-release Sand Scorcher but still bought vintage because I wanted the exact car I couldn't have as a kid. Didn't kill the hobby for me - in fact if it weren't for the re-release (presumably) depressing the price of vintage cars then I probably wouldn't be into the hobby at all.

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i don't need to add anything to the excellent arguments for why the re-re's are if anything SAVING the hobby for future generations. if you don't understand why that's the case then, in my humble opinion, you have a seriously twisted perspective about what "this hobby" is all about. maybe you should try collecting coins or stamps. or maybe just, as i said in another thread, savings bonds! how exciting!

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I think what the OP was saying is that the reres are taking the fun out of hunting for vintage/rare parts and building a vintage model over a period of time and getting the satisfaction that comes with completing it.

I agree with him if that was his intended meaning.

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I think what the OP was saying is that the reres are taking the fun out of hunting for vintage/rare parts and building a vintage model over a period of time and getting the satisfaction that comes with completing it.

I agree with him if that was his intended meaning.

I suppose it could offer you an easy way out. My Scorcher has been rebuilt with it's original cracked radio box because I can't afford a vintage replacement and I don't want to spoil it with re-re parts. It's just going to have to wait until the right one comes along. I guess it's personal preference.

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I understand and can relate to 2000 position, sure some are in it for the money only and not as a hobby. But no hobbiest like to see their pride and joy has decreased in value by 50%, say, from what was paid for just a few years ago. I think is one knew or forsee the drop in collectibles, one would hold off the purchase until the price has stablized, is human nature, else how RC collectible can justify paying few thousand $ for an old vantage 3 spd a few years back.

No one, hobbiest, business person, you, like to loose money, period.

One cannot compare RC hobby to real car, we are not in the same league, and classic car only have limited number and collectors have deep deep pockets vs Tamiya "collectibles" are in the thousands and our pockets are mostly empty.

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I Love re re's .

If they didn't have the re re's there would be so many cars that I simply wouldn't run.

If you collect just for a investment then yes it will hurt but the prices do come back up, maybe not to where they use to be but like stock shares they do come back.

I'll collect & restore to run mine Yes I have a few shelfers but if there is a shelfer I will always have a runner with my Tamiya's. :)

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Imo re rereleases are killing the old school and Vintage collecters hobbies. If its vintage Tamiya or old school bmx... or other hobbie's

The fun collecting and saving is out of reach with this. If you can buy it optical old, new !!! :(

Of course it is technically different with the vintage reissue. But the appearance is the same. And for the younger generation is no difference.

cheers Patric

This isn't about the hobby of RC cars but about the hobby of collecting. It could relate to Barbie dolls or anything that's rereleased that looks like the original and runner or shelfer doesn't even matter. It's about there being two that look alike but of different ages.

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I think what the OP was saying is that the reres are taking the fun out of hunting for vintage/rare parts and building a vintage model over a period of time and getting the satisfaction that comes with completing it.

I agree with him if that was his intended meaning.

It took 18 posts but somebody finally got it.

From a vintage perspective, it irks me that rere lovers think it's all about money. Everytime this arguement comes up, it's about money. money money money.

Supposedly because rere kits devalue NIB vintage kits. When the rere has had it's dash and parts are scarce, the vintage kits will go back up in price. It is stupid to buy

Tamiya vintage kits from an investment perspective while the company has proven they can, and will, rerelease any kit they please. They have already flexed that muscle.

If you want a vintage kit to admire NIB, by all means do so, they are lovely and nostaligic and no rere will come close, but for the money, then 'LOL'.

So who cares? I built a Bullhead a couple of years ago and I paid a princely sum to restore it. Do I care that it has devalued? Nope. But what bothers me, is that something

I took time and effort to lovingly restore, that was rare, is now available down the road, all inclusive in a box on a shelf, for anyone to buy. I no longer own something that

is hard to obtain, and that link to my childhood seems to be made of a common call girls panty line, instead of respectable Samantha Foxes lacy lingerie. My Bullhead is still on a shelf, but down at my LHS on display to try and help drum up more business for the owner since this RC truck is now available again.

From rere perspective, I can buy a RC that Tamiya has brought out again, build it, drive it carefully until it's first scratch, and then beat the living snot out of it like the red-headed stepchild it is, until it cant take anymore, and then fix it and do it all again. That's what rereleases are for. Find out how an old kits handles and mod the snot out of it.

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So who wins?

The vintage NIB collector who gets antsy about rere's destroying their love for finding rare kits?

The rere builder who harps on about the price of unobtainable vintage kits wanting them rere'ed?

Or Tamiya running their company like a business should be and making smart decisions along with the enthusiast who loves both vintage and rereleased kits all the same

because they love this hobby as a whole?

These threads are gettng along the same line as politics and religion...

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