RENKEN 2000 1 Posted January 29, 2013 I love how people start contentious topics then, just walk away...................... why are you thinking that... are you like that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RENKEN 2000 1 Posted January 29, 2013 This isn't about the hobby of RC cars but about the hobby of collecting. It could relate to Barbie dolls or anything that's rereleased that looks like the original and runner or shelfer doesn't even matter. It's about there being two that look alike but of different ages. I do think you have a point there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meakz1973 36 Posted January 29, 2013 This..................thread...............is....................exhausting............ and I'm going to cheer myself up by looking at what you lovely people might have for sale today! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy_w_beans 4272 Posted January 29, 2013 Forum T: "Re-re's are killing the hobby!" Point... Counterpoint... Countercounterpoint... Countercountercounterpoint... Forum R: "Re-re's are killing the hobby!" "Use the search function before starting a new thread!" Forum U: "Re-re's are killing the hobby!" "Which one should I get or have my parents get me?" C'mon, laugh with me a little... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beefmuffin 1156 Posted January 29, 2013 We all have our own motive's for this.. And i respect every one his own vision on this.. It seems there no real vintage collectors here, only drivers i think i think lobbing the insult that we are not "real vintage collectors" and are "only drivers" is kind of laughable ... but nonetheless it does seem to be intended as an inflammatory comment in this already heated debate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RENKEN 2000 1 Posted January 29, 2013 i think lobbing the insult that we are not "real vintage collectors" and are "only drivers" is kind of laughable ... but nonetheless it does seem to be intended as an inflammatory comment in this already heated debate. I think its getting nowere like this ... So there is no respect for some people 's opinion. It was not with a meaning of insulting . But i suppose thats the way how youre thinking (negative) . But i do already notice "Newbie" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grastens 2795 Posted January 29, 2013 Forum T: "Re-re's are killing the hobby!" Point... Counterpoint... Countercounterpoint... Countercountercounterpoint... Forum R: "Re-re's are killing the hobby!" "Use the search function before starting a new thread!" Forum U: "Re-re's are killing the hobby!" "Which one should I get or have my parents get me?" C'mon, laugh with me a little... ... haha? I know I am young but I still purchase my own cars! Maybe the controversy was there because 'KILLING' was capitalized as such in the title; if it was not a diplomatic word for the perceived state of matters putting emphasis on it is not going to make it conform more to anything. As heated as the discussion is, it does raise interesting points about each facet of radio-controlled vehicles as a pastime and it is good to know that at least people are passionate about what they do in this hobby, be it collecting, building, driving or a combination. We would all be poorer for it if we were not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theibault 1535 Posted January 29, 2013 Nice loft. I think you should pick up a Bruiser re-re as you seem to be lacking that. That comment is in good fun, just making a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beefmuffin 1156 Posted January 29, 2013 oh yes, i am a "newbie". like many of us, we've had many years living our adult lives and haven't continued playing with "toys" continuously since the 80's. we spent time with other pursuits like having families, starting and running companies, working hard. and then at a certain point we rediscovered these "toys" from the perspective of adults nostalgic for a simpler time in our lives. i guess i could have spent the past 20 years hunting down obscure "toy" parts so that i could feel like a big shot collector someday and look down my nose at people ... but i was too busy scraping to get by, working hard, starting companies in NY, London and Hong Kong, getting married and having a family. then when my father died i rediscovered all this as a way to remember good times past. i never felt any need to put other people down here or anywhere, and i don't do any of this so i can put myself on a pedestal. you can pretend to be joking, but we all know you aren't. i'm fine with being a newbie, but i guess it would be the end of the world for you. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daves956 157 Posted January 30, 2013 My first thought when this first started was about people wandering around with a set of jumper cables over thier shoulder looking for something to start. I know people who collect all sorts of things but most know it's not a mainstream kind of thing and won't get worked up over it. In reality we're talking about toys. no more no less and discussing price is a bad move to say the least. Each of us has a different perspective and me personally I find this whole thing funny. However I do appreciate the compliment about being a driver. I guess maybe the videos of me with some of the cars went over better than expected. "Driver" beats "lunatic with a remote" any day. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmcnz 754 Posted January 30, 2013 This is a bit of an emotionally charged thread don't we think? If we speak about how we feel, rather than how we perceive others then we'll be back on track. ...Normal you did search on the internet, for that last part whats making an almost forgotten and lost rc model complete .....Building like in the eightie's .... You dont have the feeling like we had then in the early eightie's. Its just not the same... This is salient and I agree with it 100%. It might have been a valuable addition to the first post. Re-releases have not "killed" the hobby at all, let's put that title down to a second language. But to be fair to R/2000 they have taken the bottom out of that nostalgic hunt and gather experience for such parts. Sure, you can gnaw at the sinew of this argument but it will remain a fact that some of the lustre is gone. Seems a reasonable perspective to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pizzachaude 130 Posted January 30, 2013 Kyosho hasn't re-released any of their past models, and they have some very nice ones which have become RC legends. Start collecting those if you miss the challenge of finding those impossible to get (and very expensive) parts. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grastens 2795 Posted January 30, 2013 "Driver" beats "lunatic with a remote" any day. Agreed! Good point on the Kyoshos, too. I guess you could always look for other companies as they have different philosophies concerning their older models... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daves956 157 Posted January 30, 2013 Here's a real example of how a rere effects the collector. Last weekend I picked up a vintage bruiser for something like 3/4 of what it would have went for had there been no rerelease. I know it's the original and don't really care what others think. I couldn't have made the deal before the rerelease and it also made the seller more willing to sell the original in near perfect condition. i've got a NIB 956 that I got the same way. While everybody is watching and buying the reres a real collector can score some great deals. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berman 5315 Posted January 30, 2013 Competely off topic, but wow at Renkens collection of 3 speeds and BMX's, just wow.. As long as there is Rerelease and Vintage Tamiya, (two sides of the fence) there will always be this debate. Yup, politics and religion... Mars Attacks: "Why cant we all just get along?" 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HunterZero 76 Posted January 30, 2013 To summarise... What's annoying: 1. Re-releases temporarily remove a good portion of the market for particular cars, ie those who want a particular car and don't care if it's original or not. This means you can no longer easily sell certain original cars for 'collector' premium prices, unless you search harder for a buyer who cares whether the car is re-re or not. This is perceived as loss of value of a collection. But let's face it - if you're in this hobby for the speculation, you are in the wrong hobby. 2. Re-releases reduce the prestige factor (snobbery factor) among collectors in owning a rare collector item that others don't have but desire to have. 3. Spare parts, complete cars and original NIB kits become harder to find through 'easy' places like eBay, where it was previously not uncommon to get original cars and spares for a premium. Sales of original vintage items seem to disappear from eBay as potential sellers realise they can't get the high prices for them any more. So there's no 'easy' way to pay a premium to get vintage items easily on the Internet any more. 4. Vintage cars may have been 'corrupted' with repairs involving re-release parts. What's not changed: 1. Finding vintage kits and parts at garage sales, markets, boot sales, swap meets etc and still lurking in peoples' attics/basements. 2. Building and restoring process 3. You can still choose to hunt for vintage cars/parts. Nobody is forcing the re-re's into your collection. The same amount of vintage stuff is still out there, and the thrill of finding vintage parts is greater when they are harder to find. 4. You can still trade with collectors on forums like this. What's awesome... 1. Availability of cars for people who want runners, shelf display cars, etc. 2. Availability of spares or options to repair broken vintage cars with new parts 3. Joy of building these old kits from NIB 4. New variants to collect 5. Re-releases aren't forever, they are released in batches. When re-re batches dry up, prices slowly rise again. Some of the re-release cars were quite limited, and are themselves becoming collectible, eg re-re Dyna Storm, Top Force 6. Hardcore collectors still value and respect the original versions, and take joy in knowing all the differences between original and re-re's, and speculating why those changes were made. 7. Altough it's rarer to find originals on eBay, they are relatively cheaper. 8. The re-re's are generally better than the originals. Eg, the ORV Lancia 037 compared to the much better looking TA-03RS version. So depending how much these matter to you, it's better or worse, or just different. The hobby has changed. If you're in it for kit value and snob factor, or exclusively collecting older stuff, it sucks. If you are in it for the building and running, or an anorak collector who likes variants and knowing all the small differences, it's awesome. For me - The awesome far outweighs the negative. For me, the re-re's just add more options to this already rich hobby. - James 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigwheels_inc 11 Posted January 30, 2013 We all have our own motive's for this.. And i respect every one his own vision on this.. It seems there no real vintage collectors here, only drivers i think I think this has to be the funniest thing I've heard all year, A REAL vintage collector would be in it for the cars not the value of them so wouldn't of even started this topic some people are vintage collectors some run their cars & some do both, they are all collectors in their own way. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Percymon 2184 Posted January 30, 2013 There is only one problem to my mind - the potential to pay out money for a supposedly original model, only to find re-re parts in there - for a runner you might not be too bothered but if you desire the full genuine article then you'd be a bit miffed ! I guess thats one advantage of the original blister packs - if they are sealed you are 90% certain they are what they say they are. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
30YrsL8r 97 Posted January 30, 2013 If we speak about how we feel, rather than how we perceive others then we'll be back on track. What a great comment. djmcnz has reached true enlightenment. Well said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pizzachaude 130 Posted January 30, 2013 We need some sort of ''RC Bible'' to figure out the differences between the re-re and the originals. Many parts and trees have such minor differences that telling them apart has to be documented. Here's a test: Is there a difference between the original 1988 Avante's driver and the re-release? I found the answer on ebay... If this info is already out there, please post a link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
30YrsL8r 97 Posted January 30, 2013 Is there a difference between the original 1988 Avante's driver and the re-release? Does the new man have a lower cholesterol level whilst also being in touch with his feminine side? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmcnz 754 Posted January 30, 2013 We need some sort of ''RC Bible'' to figure out the differences between the re-re and the originals. Many parts and trees have such minor differences that telling them apart has to be documented. Here's a test: Is there a difference between the original 1988 Avante's driver and the re-release? I found the answer on ebay... If this info is already out there, please post a link Here's a start: http://www.blackholesun.fr/RC_Re-releases_US.php I'm cautious to point out that it doesn't include everything because the last time somebody posted it they got a tough time about that! I think it's a good read and an informative site. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markbt73 5316 Posted January 30, 2013 There is only one problem to my mind - the potential to pay out money for a supposedly original model, only to find re-re parts in there - for a runner you might not be too bothered but if you desire the full genuine article then you'd be a bit miffed ! I guess thats one advantage of the original blister packs - if they are sealed you are 90% certain they are what they say they are. Good point - but it's sort of unavoidable after a while. How many 100% originals are there of popular 1:1 vintage cars? Most of them you can build completely with non-original parts if you have the basic body/frame. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theibault 1535 Posted January 30, 2013 Good point - but it's sort of unavoidable after a while. How many 100% originals are there of popular 1:1 vintage cars? Most of them you can build completely with non-original parts if you have the basic body/frame. True. In that collector market, the difference is refered to as "matching numbers car". No way to really do that with rc as very few parts have numbers on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GregM 1109 Posted January 30, 2013 @Pizzachaude: Either Blackholesun's site, as djmcnz already mentioned, or TamiyaBase for a more detailed view (but only for the reissues of the first 100 Tamiya R/C cars, and even not all of them are covered yet). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
