Re-releases are KILLING the hobby

[wolfdogstinkus 1893]

The Tamiya Midnight pumpkin that ran on 8 AA's was the ready assembled quick drive version.

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/car.asp?id=107

the kit version used 6cell nicad batteries which was released first. although that did have a manual speed control, some kits did include an ESC.

[fritjofarnold 0]

As I said in some past posts the re-releases are killing the speculators not the hobby, nor the Tamiya's lovers.

Who loves Tamiya, who loves Tamiya's cars, who loves the hobby can only have benefits from the re-releases.

The re-releases mean no more regrets for a past wrong sell or a missed model, the re-releases mean spare parts, a re-release means a not brittle runner car, a re-release means you can drive a 30 years old model without the problem of breakages, consumption, missing spares and so on. Re-releases mean the joy to come back to past and the possibility to restore at top an old model.

At the end, and most important matter, re-releases mean no more speculations for ebay seller, traders and so on.

The only person who regrets about the re-releases is one of these persons. This hobby and this club don't need them. Humanity also.

Max

You are all wrong, Max. My page describing for instance the differance between MK1 and MK2 Sand Scorcher has been visited almost 4000 times. Do not accuse me for not being interested in Tamiya and only a speculator. In what way do you contribute to make TC a better place other than to disrespect other views than your own?

Fritjofarnold

[beefmuffin 1156]

You are all wrong, Max. My page describing for instance the differance between MK1 and MK2 Sand Scorcher has been visited almost 4000 times. Do not accuse me for not being interested in Tamiya and only a speculator. In what way do you contribute to make TC a better place other than to disrespect other views than your own?

Fritjofarnold

wow - come on now. everybody, let's settle down a bit. this is a hobby, something we do for fun / enjoyment. there are different things about it to enjoy and not everyone will be the same here. i think the reason this thread became so nasty is that it started out on the premise that some tamiya fans are better than others and putting down people who are different in their perspectives. it happens to be that this was an opinion against people who are OK with or happy about re-releases. i can understand where both sides are coming from... but taking a step back the reality is that most of the criticism is coming from vintage purists who are taking the usual "we were here first" approach to what is just an innocent difference of opinion. yes - we know in the history of geopolitics how well the "we were here first" argument works for helping people live in peace and harmony.

the bottom line is it's 100% OK for anyone to have their own interest and focus and way of enjoying this stuff -- without needing to attack others for who they are or what they like. the real truth is that the vintage purists can exist amid the non-purists and maintain their high standards and there should be NO problem doing that. and the more liberal folks who are OK with newbies, re-releases, etc can co-exist with the purists too. there's no real need for the two to interact if they don't like what the others are doing... but there's also NO reason to put the others down.

whether you're a stickler for vintage-only or not you can't deny that having an interest in this tamiya stuff is almost 100% driven by nostalgia and an appreciation for old design. so that should be seen by all as a common ground. let's play nice, shall we?

[kontemax 1725]

I was not speaking about you but about all the pirates that ask 1.500 $ for an original Egress for example.

Toys they are.

Max

You are all wrong, Max. My page describing for instance the differance between MK1 and MK2 Sand Scorcher has been visited almost 4000 times. Do not accuse me for not being interested in Tamiya and only a speculator. In what way do you contribute to make TC a better place other than to disrespect other views than your own?

Fritjofarnold

[BigSteve 149]

Here we go if you are solely interested in vintage models purely for the nostalgia then that's fine. But on the other hand if you heard vintage models with the sole purpose of trying to get as muck money out of another enthusiast then that's capitalism. Take the Fox for example spare parts are very costly because the only place to source them, until the Nova Fox is released, is from collectors. Now I'm not saying all you collectors are the same but there are some out there who want to capitalize on their collection.

I run all my offroad buggies and enjoy every minute along with my 9 year old daughter. When she wanted her first buggy I opted for a re re Grasshopper, sensible price and strong new plastic. Why should I have bought a vintage model?.

As it has been mentioned before re re ARE breathing new life into this HOBBY. If you want to collect NIB vintage models to keep in their box that's fine. If you want to collect and restore vintage models again that's fine. If you want to bash them again that's fine. But don't consider yourself and look down on anybody just because you consider yourself an original enthusiast or an elitist just because you collect vintage models because you aren't better than the rest of us who love and enjoy this hobby. Re releases just mean that you can't charge what you want for parts.

Steve.

[kontemax 1725]

If you love Tamiya's cars you love their design, their look, their behavior on the track, you don't love the matter their are done. If I must choose between two identical objects, one 25 years old and the other one 6 month old, believe me I'll choose the new one.

I will never buy today some Hot Shot tires from 1986, I would like to have the new ones.

You can say "they are not perfectly identical". Yes, some time re-releases are better than originals, sometime not but other things are really important in life, not these ones.

If age of the plastic parts gives you a problem probably you have a bigger problem, probably you don't know the real values of life.

Max

[fritjofarnold 0]

If you love Tamiya's cars you love their design, their look, their behavior on the track, you don't love the matter their are done. If I must choose between two identical objects, one 25 years old and the other one 6 month old, believe me I'll choose the new one.

I will never buy today some Hot Shot tires from 1986, I would like to have the new ones.

You can say "they are not perfectly identical". Yes, some time re-releases are better than originals, sometime not but other things are really important in life, not these ones.

If age of the plastic parts gives you a problem probably you have a bigger problem, probably you don't know the real values of life.

Max

I agree on you with that Max and I fully understand that rereleases triggers new members and interests. I have three Hornets which I run with my sons and hopefully the boys will discover the Tamiya joy and bring it further. That being said though, parts were cheap for these buggies before the rerelease. What I am having bigger concerns with, however, is that I have an assumption that this club is changing, in some ways good, in some ways the opposite. For instance I can not understand why so many members of this club totally goes to war against other opinions. Do we not have higher tolerance? I knew that when I posted my answer it would be synonymous with harakiri. As in real life it is often neither black or white. Also a lot of great contributors to this club has left and moved on to other Tamiyasites. Why is this?

Fritjofarnold

[kontemax 1725]

This has been the 1st Tamiya fan site. Everything change with time.<br />Many people opened new Tamiya fan local sites, this is normal in my opinion. The TC is changing? Well, this is normal also due the enormous number of members arrived with time.<br />I don't believe here there's an opinion war, often it's easy misunderstand with written lines. Especially when there are people from different countries. For example I'm from Italy and obviously I'm not English mother tongue, often I'm not able to say what I wanna say perfectly. And some English grammar rules make me go crazy. One of them is the second person "you" that is equal singular and plural. In my previous post I said "you" but I was speaking plural and not you Fritjofarnold. Misunderstanding is very easy imho.<br />There are several bad forums with people are fighting hard. I think this forum is one of most quiet and friendly I ever used and I feel very well here.<br />For example there are two forums particularly I had problems, Italian forums. The first one (the worst forum I ever seen) is Nocturno Cinema forum (http://forum.nocturno.it/), after six months I left the forum closing my account, the second one is Mountain Bike Forum (http://www.mtb-forum.it/) where I had been banned away and now I have a new account with different name.<br /><br />So, at the end, I can say that this one is one of the best and friendly forums on the net. Don't be sad if something change during the years, this is life, the rest is nostalgia.<br /><br />Max<br />

[Champ85 609]

I agree on you with that Max and I fully understand that rereleases triggers new members and interests. I have three Hornets which I run with my sons and hopefully the boys will discover the Tamiya joy and bring it further. That being said though, parts were cheap for these buggies before the rerelease. What I am having bigger concerns with, however, is that I have an assumption that this club is changing, in some ways good, in some ways the opposite. For instance I can not understand why so many members of this club totally goes to war against other opinions. Do we not have higher tolerance? I knew that when I posted my answer it would be synonymous with harakiri. As in real life it is often neither black or white. Also a lot of great contributors to this club has left and moved on to other Tamiyasites. Why is this?

Fritjofarnold

It seems to me that you are concerned that the re-releases are killing this TamiyaClub forum, not that re-releases are killing the hobby.

I'm not sure why people seem to equate what happens on a public forum with the overall "entity" that is the radio control hobby.

I haven't seen a reason from you WHY re-releases are killing the HOBBY. In fact, you've posted the exact opposite and I quote "I agree on you with that Max and I fully understand that rereleases triggers new members and interests."

Maybe there is some language barrier here?

The fact is that other companies have watched Tamiya re-release model after model over the past few years and saw it to be profitable and exciting to the people that enjoy the hobby of radio control vehicles. That's why Team Associated is re-releasing the original RC10 buggy. If the Tamiya re-releases were killing the hobby, other companies would surely not re-release their own vehicles in a similar manner.

TamiyaClub is but a small niche in the global world of radio control and Tamiya. People come and go all the time. The reasons are many: family, work, money, and more.

I don't know how many times I've seen some "old" members pop in and say hi and explain the reason for their absence and it has nothing to do with the re-releases.

On the other hand, I am sure some members have left because of the re-releases. I cannot say for sure why they left, only they can explain it.

I came late to TamiyaClub (only been a non-paying member for a few years), but I've been into the radio control hobby since 1981 and into Tamiya in particular since 1984 when I got my first Super Champ. I totally love the re-releases because it allows me to buy un-built kits of cars I wanted when I was a kid but could never afford. I'd never pay the prices some people pay for vintage vehicles - it just seems to be a waste of money to do that (to me), especially if I wanted to build the kit. That would ruin a vintage kit (making one less NIB in the world) that some collector might want. I am not really a "collector", even though I am usually buying 2 of each re-release. I guess I like having a kit as well as a built model.

Re-releases are bringing 1980's nostalgia into the hobby as a whole and lots of people like that. They talk about their first RC vehicle, and often times it's a Tamiya and something that has been re-released. And they buy the re-re because they remembered good times with the original model and want to see it run again.

The only thing the re-releases kill is the size of the market of the collectors that have those vintage parts. When there was no re-release, buyers had only one place to go. Now buyers have a choice. If the buyer is a vintage purist, nothing changes for them. They still only look for those rare vintage parts, and they pay a premium for them. Nothing wrong with that. But other buyers, like me, who simply want to find a "vintage" vehicle to take apart, restore, maybe run or shelf queen now have a choice. Buy a re-re or keep looking for a cheap vintage. I don't see how this is killing the hobby. The radio control hobby in general is larger than it ever was in the past.

[BigSteve 149]

It seems to me that you are concerned that the re-releases are killing this TamiyaClub forum, not that re-releases are killing the hobby.

I'm not sure why people seem to equate what happens on a public forum with the overall "entity" that is the radio control hobby.

I haven't seen a reason from you WHY re-releases are killing the HOBBY. In fact, you've posted the exact opposite and I quote "I agree on you with that Max and I fully understand that rereleases triggers new members and interests."

Maybe there is some language barrier here?

The fact is that other companies have watched Tamiya re-release model after model over the past few years and saw it to be profitable and exciting to the people that enjoy the hobby of radio control vehicles. That's why Team Associated is re-releasing the original RC10 buggy. If the Tamiya re-releases were killing the hobby, other companies would surely not re-release their own vehicles in a similar manner.

TamiyaClub is but a small niche in the global world of radio control and Tamiya. People come and go all the time. The reasons are many: family, work, money, and more.

I don't know how many times I've seen some "old" members pop in and say hi and explain the reason for their absence and it has nothing to do with the re-releases.

On the other hand, I am sure some members have left because of the re-releases. I cannot say for sure why they left, only they can explain it.

I came late to TamiyaClub (only been a non-paying member for a few years), but I've been into the radio control hobby since 1981 and into Tamiya in particular since 1984 when I got my first Super Champ. I totally love the re-releases because it allows me to buy un-built kits of cars I wanted when I was a kid but could never afford. I'd never pay the prices some people pay for vintage vehicles - it just seems to be a waste of money to do that (to me), especially if I wanted to build the kit. That would ruin a vintage kit (making one less NIB in the world) that some collector might want. I am not really a "collector", even though I am usually buying 2 of each re-release. I guess I like having a kit as well as a built model.

Re-releases are bringing 1980's nostalgia into the hobby as a whole and lots of people like that. They talk about their first RC vehicle, and often times it's a Tamiya and something that has been re-released. And they buy the re-re because they remembered good times with the original model and want to see it run again.

The only thing the re-releases kill is the size of the market of the collectors that have those vintage parts. When there was no re-release, buyers had only one place to go. Now buyers have a choice. If the buyer is a vintage purist, nothing changes for them. They still only look for those rare vintage parts, and they pay a premium for them. Nothing wrong with that. But other buyers, like me, who simply want to find a "vintage" vehicle to take apart, restore, maybe run or shelf queen now have a choice. Buy a re-re or keep looking for a cheap vintage. I don't see how this is killing the hobby. The radio control hobby in general is larger than it ever was in the past.

I have gained so much knowledge since becoming a member of TC that it's you a credit to this club. There are always a lot of members who are willingto offer advice and help. Long live Tamiya Club.

[Champ85 609]

I have gained so much knowledge since becoming a member of TC that it's you a credit to this club. There are always a lot of members who are willingto offer advice and help. Long live Tamiya Club.

Yup, I love this place too. It just fun to read what others are doing and seeing pictures of awesome restorations and helping people when possible. My knowledge is tiny compared to others here.

Having just re-read some of the beginning posts in this thread, I think I may be misunderstanding what the definition of "hobby" is in terms of this thread's context.

I think the word "hobby" in this thread's original post (OP) from REN KEN 2000 means "the hobby of finding, collecting and restoring vintage Tamiya vehicles".

I thought "hobby" was referring to the overall hobby of radio controlled vehicles or even the hobby of buying/building/racing/restoring Tamiya radio controlled vehicles in general.

Given this limited scope of the word "hobby", I can agree, as others have already posted, that re-releases can have the effect of "killing" the "hobby" to a certain degree. The uniqueness of the vintage Tamiya vehicle is somewhat lost because there is a re-release of it in the nearest hobby shop (if there are any hobby shops left in your area, but that's another topic entirely).

I can definitely see that.

But the vintage purist can still restrict their purchases (the thrill of the chase!) to vintage parts only and keep the dream alive.

Maybe REN KEN 2000 was just saying it wasn't fun to do that any more BECAUSE of the re-releases.

And if that's the meaning he meant, all I can say is "point taken." I was never into doing that and so didn't have those feelings when the re-releases started happening.

[Wandy 1527]

It seems to me that you are concerned that the re-releases are killing this TamiyaClub forum, not that re-releases are killing the hobby.

I'm not sure why people seem to equate what happens on a public forum with the overall "entity" that is the radio control hobby.

I haven't seen a reason from you WHY re-releases are killing the HOBBY. In fact, you've posted the exact opposite and I quote "I agree on you with that Max and I fully understand that rereleases triggers new members and interests."

Maybe there is some language barrier here?

The fact is that other companies have watched Tamiya re-release model after model over the past few years and saw it to be profitable and exciting to the people that enjoy the hobby of radio control vehicles. That's why Team Associated is re-releasing the original RC10 buggy. If the Tamiya re-releases were killing the hobby, other companies would surely not re-release their own vehicles in a similar manner.

TamiyaClub is but a small niche in the global world of radio control and Tamiya. People come and go all the time. The reasons are many: family, work, money, and more.

I don't know how many times I've seen some "old" members pop in and say hi and explain the reason for their absence and it has nothing to do with the re-releases.

On the other hand, I am sure some members have left because of the re-releases. I cannot say for sure why they left, only they can explain it.

I came late to TamiyaClub (only been a non-paying member for a few years), but I've been into the radio control hobby since 1981 and into Tamiya in particular since 1984 when I got my first Super Champ. I totally love the re-releases because it allows me to buy un-built kits of cars I wanted when I was a kid but could never afford. I'd never pay the prices some people pay for vintage vehicles - it just seems to be a waste of money to do that (to me), especially if I wanted to build the kit. That would ruin a vintage kit (making one less NIB in the world) that some collector might want. I am not really a "collector", even though I am usually buying 2 of each re-release. I guess I like having a kit as well as a built model.

Re-releases are bringing 1980's nostalgia into the hobby as a whole and lots of people like that. They talk about their first RC vehicle, and often times it's a Tamiya and something that has been re-released. And they buy the re-re because they remembered good times with the original model and want to see it run again.

The only thing the re-releases kill is the size of the market of the collectors that have those vintage parts. When there was no re-release, buyers had only one place to go. Now buyers have a choice. If the buyer is a vintage purist, nothing changes for them. They still only look for those rare vintage parts, and they pay a premium for them. Nothing wrong with that. But other buyers, like me, who simply want to find a "vintage" vehicle to take apart, restore, maybe run or shelf queen now have a choice. Buy a re-re or keep looking for a cheap vintage. I don't see how this is killing the hobby. The radio control hobby in general is larger than it ever was in the past.

Nailed it square on the head.

[fritjofarnold 0]

It seems to me that you are concerned that the re-releases are killing this TamiyaClub forum, not that re-releases are killing the hobby.

I'm not sure why people seem to equate what happens on a public forum with the overall "entity" that is the radio control hobby.

I haven't seen a reason from you WHY re-releases are killing the HOBBY. In fact, you've posted the exact opposite and I quote "I agree on you with that Max and I fully understand that rereleases triggers new members and interests."

Maybe there is some language barrier here?

The fact is that other companies have watched Tamiya re-release model after model over the past few years and saw it to be profitable and exciting to the people that enjoy the hobby of radio control vehicles. That's why Team Associated is re-releasing the original RC10 buggy. If the Tamiya re-releases were killing the hobby, other companies would surely not re-release their own vehicles in a similar manner.

TamiyaClub is but a small niche in the global world of radio control and Tamiya. People come and go all the time. The reasons are many: family, work, money, and more.

I don't know how many times I've seen some "old" members pop in and say hi and explain the reason for their absence and it has nothing to do with the re-releases.

On the other hand, I am sure some members have left because of the re-releases. I cannot say for sure why they left, only they can explain it.

I came late to TamiyaClub (only been a non-paying member for a few years), but I've been into the radio control hobby since 1981 and into Tamiya in particular since 1984 when I got my first Super Champ. I totally love the re-releases because it allows me to buy un-built kits of cars I wanted when I was a kid but could never afford. I'd never pay the prices some people pay for vintage vehicles - it just seems to be a waste of money to do that (to me), especially if I wanted to build the kit. That would ruin a vintage kit (making one less NIB in the world) that some collector might want. I am not really a "collector", even though I am usually buying 2 of each re-release. I guess I like having a kit as well as a built model.

Re-releases are bringing 1980's nostalgia into the hobby as a whole and lots of people like that. They talk about their first RC vehicle, and often times it's a Tamiya and something that has been re-released. And they buy the re-re because they remembered good times with the original model and want to see it run again.

The only thing the re-releases kill is the size of the market of the collectors that have those vintage parts. When there was no re-release, buyers had only one place to go. Now buyers have a choice. If the buyer is a vintage purist, nothing changes for them. They still only look for those rare vintage parts, and they pay a premium for them. Nothing wrong with that. But other buyers, like me, who simply want to find a "vintage" vehicle to take apart, restore, maybe run or shelf queen now have a choice. Buy a re-re or keep looking for a cheap vintage. I don't see how this is killing the hobby. The radio control hobby in general is larger than it ever was in the past.

You have some good points and I will give them a thorough thought. The rereleases are a complex and not at least an emotional subject.

Fritjofarnold

[matman 1499]

For those of us not into vintage and queen shelfs (don't get me wrong, I love a nice shelf queen - but I don't aford a car I don't get to bash) re-re are a chance to get a model of a nice looking car, that we can bash without fear (for example I hope to get a black midnight pumpkin some day - looks perfect for backyard fun), without paying vintage prices and all the part hunting, and with some updated parts - to take the mp as an example, the original ran on 8 AA's, had that mechanical servo driven speed switch instead of esc, wires instead of proper steering links.

Also there are more than a few folks that sell as vintage (like in vintage priced) some rusty and broken models that they found lying god knows where

What I don't like is a re-re that is still not lipo friendly (note to tamiya: hardcase lipo's are rectangular not oval shaped, so please modify the battery compartment to fit those). And yeah friction shocks are not cool.

Your thinking of QD MP on 8 AA's & you can get stick pack type lipo's . But great fun to be had on the re re's woohoo !! .

[Tamiya1/10 382]

i think we are reading into the re release issue too deeply. Are we doing our Phd thesis? Let each and everyone think of their own reasons. The profiteers collectors...buy a few dozens copies and make your money back 50 yrs later; the runners group buy 2 with 1 as a backup; the regular collectors buy one, built it and keep it as a shelve queen or keep it as nib and take it out once in a while to do the sniff test. All i can say for myself is the re re :-)is killing my wallet:-(.

[Klausen 1197]

Rere's are the main reason I am back in the Tamiya world. I started back in the 80's with a Falcon and Grasshopper 2, and after they were destroyed, the hobby dies for me untill 2004, where I bought a Blitzer Beetle. From that on I have been into some serious E-maxx builds, and then I stomped over some vintage Tamiyas and bought and restored 10-15 of these. Each time it drained my pockets and I ended up with cars full of old very fragile plastic, so they I wouldn't dare to drive them. I really like looking at the cars on my shelf, but I also like to take them for a spin in the garden. Here the rere's comes in very handy. For the first part, I can build a lot of my dream cars from my childhood from scratch and from new parts, and second I even get to drive them, without having to worry if they break and for the third, I am now able to pay for these things without putting a months paycheck in some speculators pocket.

I don't understand the big arguing about this. If people want to do only vintage stuff, they should do this. It is still out there, and now you may even get it for a better price, which should be a good thing I guess

I have been a member of this forum for many years, but it is not untill recently, I have starting using it regularly and I must say I am enjoying all the knowledge i can get from you guys.If people get away from forums, it is often because they have a change in interests in the hobby, or go completely out of the hobby. I don't see any reason to leave this forum as it is now, as there are many wise people here, that knows alot about Tamiyas.

[Snakehands 124]

So we all all agreed then and re-re is in fact NOT killing the hobby.

[biggamehunter 127]

cant wait for the nova fox !!!!!!! i can finaly get my hands on a set of wheels for my vintage shelfer without morgaging my house !!!!!!!!!! roll on re-re ............only want the wheels !

[markbt73 5316]

So we all all agreed then and re-re is in fact NOT killing the hobby.

Never mind the hobby - what's it going to take to kill this stupid thread?

[billg4 25]

Never mind the hobby - what's it going to take to kill this stupid thread?

kill the thread, not each other LOL

[biggamehunter 127]

kill the thread, not each other LOL

x2 ..............

[Vigilante 23]

Hmm - lots of opinions that seem to have gone way beyond the actual construct of the thread. I think it was almost summed up on the 1st page or so.

Re-Release will upset those wishing to make money only - as the more abundance of parts will drop the cost.

Re-Release will allow collectors access to more parts making their originals easier to repair if they want to use them.

Cheers

[HunterZero 76]

I think that you have to consider many older members are more quiet on the site these days because they are in their 30s to early 40s and have young families taking their spare time. I know I do. I don't think re-releases have much to do with it.

- J

[HunterZero 76]

I hate the rereleases from Tamiya. It is as easy as that. The endless rereleases have also changed my opinion of the Tamiya RC brand.

Tamiya make $0 from the collector market. I give kudos to Tamiya for recognising a market and making a buck out of it. Can you blame them?

- J

[billg4 25]

Tamiya make $0 from the collector market. I give kudos to Tamiya for recognising a market and making a buck out of it. Can you blame them?

- J

not at all

and kudos to them for it