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Even if we assume a Jugg is indistinguishable from a clod beyond a cursory glance, can you tell me which is obviously the better truck just by looking at them both?

I like juggs, just saying :D

Mike (lightening up the thread)

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I think the TB models have the benefit of the suspension arms attach to the chassis via pins and blocks,same as most "racer" brands.the TT chassis just have a purely moulded plastic arm that is held by the gearbox sides.

The block and pin allows for caster and inboard toe adjustments,the TT approach allows for your gearbox to be split in two if you clip a kerb! lol!

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To put it the other way around, the similarities between tt01/02 and tb03 are: bathtub chassis, 4wd, shaft driven. But one is a rc-style toy while the other one is a rc car.

What I find insulting is the similar price. But again, it's about what sells, not what is better.

True, just by looking at pictures it is not obvious how much of a better car that the second one is. As a beginner, based on what I read on the net, I opted in favour of a tt01 despite the fact I had a tb02 in my hand. At that time I really had no ideea at what to look and I thought "it's good enough as a first car". Man I sold that tt as fast as I could and got the tb. tt - never again, no matter how upgraded or cheap or both it is. You can throw the price of two good cars into one upgraded tt and it will still be an upgraded tt.

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I like juggs, just saying :D

Mike (lightening up the thread)

I started responding to this in earnest since my fav R/C is my Jugg2 (despite the TXT being better) then I got the joke.

And back on the topic of the thread, The TT01B is a pretty sexy looking buggy, and if there's no cheaper option available when I'm looking, I may pick it up to thrash. The plastic in the driveline remains upsetting though. Anyone remember when even the most basic of Tamiya's offerings would still have metal in the driveline? (plastic dogbone ends and coathanger prop shafts - but still metal)

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Sweet Jesus I think some of you are just being deliberately confused for dramatic effect. This an an "actually they're different in these ways" question not an "I can't believe you'd mix them up" question. If the claim is that it's ridiculous to confuse them, then the differences listed shouldn't boil down to a metal motor mount, a bearing set, some threaded rod and some ball ends. Maybe mention gear ratios or suspension stroke or something else to explain why it's better design-wise.

Even if we assume a Jugg is indistinguishable from a clod beyond a cursory glance, can you tell me which is obviously the better truck just by looking at them both?

It's not my intention to rile you up.

Here's what I read:

"For the life of me, I still can't tell the difference between the TT01 and a TB01 just by looking at them (and by that I mean why one would be an obviously better car than the other)."

"Soooo....Price aside,a TB03 is a hopped up TT01 then? ... The cars look pretty darned similar to someone who doesn't have either (hence the "just by looking at it" statement)"

I'm responding to the idea someone is drawing a wholesale conclusion just by looking at a few photographs. You have to look deeper (in the manuals and online) before making a judgment call. danb1974 provided a list of differences that are meaningful in terms of performance, adjustability, and maintenance. Yet the conclusion is still a TB03 is just a hoppped up TT01, which seems like a sweeping generalization when in fact all those little details count. I know you have a Jugg, so I used the Jugg vs. Clod example to hopefully illustrate how the TB03 vs. TT01 comments look to me.

I don't have any plans to respond to this line of thought any further. We should really steer this thread back to the TT02B itself.

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The plastic in the TT02 driveline is much better than the Metal prop shaft of the Ta01/02 and its less rotational mass than the TL01, giving a more direct response with a mild motor.

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to be fair,the plastic driveshafts and diff outputs are ok.the centre prop?i replaced it with Tamiya's alloy set in my TT01 so i cant comment on that,but i have heard the standard plastic prop being refered to as "a rattly banana".

What i always found a puzzle is why were these designs introduced?

I have a TT01 and a Holiday Buggy DT02 and the plastic drive line requires quite alot of new components to replace the normal all metal set up.

the cast diff spider gears have an oblong centre point instead of splined,to fit to the oblong pressed diff out drive cup,that takes a HUGE diameter plastic dogbone end.

Tamiya however do a metal hop up (not sure im comfortable calling something so basic a hop up) diff output with oblong insert so you can atleast move to metal dogbones/wheel axles or UJ's or just use splined spider gears that come with EVERY other Tamiya gear diff.

Maybe Tamiya wish to move away from seperate diff outputs in their cars as alot of Tamiya's ball diffs feature the design of diff outs being one (or two) piece to the diff itself.

The move to all plastic may be the least cost option for their entry level stuff?

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I know that the TT01/TT02 and DF02/TT02B are not serious race vehicles. However just because a car is not light and highly adjustable doesn't make it a bad car. There is a place in the hobby for cars that are simple and tough. (Like my hobby room for example! :) )

There is also a certain attraction in taking a basic car such as this one and hopping it up, even if it costs a fair bit to do so. It is much the same as the attraction of taking a full-size car and modding the turnips out of it. Clocking 200 MPH in a supercar is one thing, but doing so in a Citroen Saxo that you modded yourself is quite another!

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I hear you with the modding part,my TT01 was bought as parts for a "fun car".im sure it was around the £30 mark.I then spent more than that on Tamiya's Countach shell alone? then the dampers,drive line,carbon top brace....i must be mad! lol!

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The plastic in the TT02 driveline is much better than the Metal prop shaft of the Ta01/02 and its less rotational mass than the TL01, giving a more direct response with a mild motor.

i dissagree. the ta01/02 and buggy versions manta ray / dirt thrasher etc...are twice the car any tt chassis can ever hope to be. i never had one of those "wire" prop shafts fail even though i use the yeah racing unit now, i only do that no because i run brushless motors in my dirt thrasher..

since this discussion is about buggies the manta ray/df01's were the best 4wd buggies tamiya made up until recently.

there's just something special about the manta ray and it's relatives. find one and try one, you'll be suprised.

all that said these new buggies don't interest me in the least. fox and wild one yes but tt02's i don't think so.

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The plastic in the TT02 driveline is much better than the Metal prop shaft of the Ta01/02 and its less rotational mass than the TL01, giving a more direct response with a mild motor.

I suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating, since I can't tell you if the plastic prop shaft is likely to have its ends twisted off in applications that would see the Coat hanger or the tl01 shaft still intact - rotational mass and rattling notwithstanding.

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Having owned a DF01, and currently owning a DF02, I wouldn't say that either is necessarily inferior. They are different, sure, but whether that is a good or bad thing depends on how you use them.

The DF01 was possibly better over jumps in stock form due to higher ground clearance and more upright shocks, but then the stock DF02 is more stable in corners and quicker on the flat due to a lower stance and more efficient drivetrain. Both buggies had their weak points (I melted the plastic motor mounts in both, and turned the propshafts into bananas, replacing both with aluminium hop-ups) and both can have their weak areas improved through appropriate upgrades and modifications.

I see the TT02B in much the same light. I am sure it will have its strong and weak points, and I am sure the weak points will be able to be improved upon. And if you enjoy modding (as I do), that is part of the fun!

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i dissagree. the ta01/02 and buggy versions manta ray / dirt thrasher etc...are twice the car any tt chassis can ever hope to be. i never had one of those "wire" prop shafts fail even though i use the yeah racing unit now, i only do that no because i run brushless motors in my dirt thrasher..

since this discussion is about buggies the manta ray/df01's were the best 4wd buggies tamiya made up until recently.

there's just something special about the manta ray and it's relatives. find one and try one, you'll be suprised.

all that said these new buggies don't interest me in the least. fox and wild one yes but tt02's i don't think so.

I raced a manta ray and also a Ta01 TC way back when. A good 21turn motor would make the wire prop shaft come out of the cars. We made our own shafts from aluminium. I have a TT01 with the std plastic shaft and a 19t Orion element V2 that I use a a basher. The plastic prop is fine as the whole drive train is much better.

I am talking about stock cars, not the hopped up ones. I have my hopped up Manta ray and Ta02's which helped me win Junior Trophies. They were great cars, but the TT01 (and I am soon to test a TT02) also fine cars, they are not toys and even with base spec of a TA01 against a TT01 the TT01 would win (even with friction stocks) out of the box with the silvercans and same FDR. (although It would be tighter between a DF01 and a DF02).

Dont get me wrong, I race TRF cars and I also hold the club level chassis cars in high regard (05's and 06's) but all this trash talk is unfounded. Friction shocks and plastic shafts are not evil, they serve a purpose and haven't hindered the TT01 from becoming the most successful Tamiya onroad chassis.

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I agree that there is a place for low end plastic non adjustable cars - but - price them accordingly, look at the price of a ready to run maverick strada for example, which btw has turnbuckles, metal shafts, oil-filled shocks. I find it really dissapointing to re-release 2003 technology and not even the better of it, at 2013 prices.

LE: I am only half angry at Tamiya. The other half is the market, people practically beg for an as-bad-as-it-gets chassis only to hop the heck out of it wasting hundreds of bucks in the process. Never saw a totally hopped up tt01 at 400 bucks? Even thought what that money could buy (hint: pro grade chassis)? Ever thought even a pro chassis can still be upgraded until you run out of money, if upgrading is your thing - but you get a chassis that out of the box handles as it should?

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I think the styling has been quite successful. I have one on my Christmas list.

I know that yellow shocks are traditional, but mine will be built with Abysma alloy ones instead. And hopefully a set of adjustable upper links will be available for it by then too. Nothing says "toy" like fixed-length plastic links!

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I think the styling has been quite successful. I have one on my Christmas list.

I know that yellow shocks are traditional, but mine will be built with Abysma alloy ones instead. And hopefully a set of adjustable upper links will be available for it by then too. Nothing says "toy" like fixed-length plastic links!

Even if they're not, you can make your own with some Tamiya spares, some threaded rod and a Dremel.

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Even if they're not, you can make your own with some Tamiya spares, some threaded rod and a Dremel.

True, you can. I did that on my Twin Det. They work fine on there since adjustments are seldom required. I would prefer turnbuckle adjusters for the buggy though, and those are a bit more difficult to make. I wonder if the DF02 set would fit?

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A driver figure should have been added at the cockpit like FireDragon & it will look great as a basher.

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That could work - the cockpit looks big enough, and the cab-forward design suggests that it should be clear of the internal gubbins.

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i like the shape (seen the car on MSUK, £130), and yes a driver figure is needed, and seems to have the look of a 90's tamiya, must be the yellow shocks..

I like it, i doubt it will be an iconic model, but i wouldnt say no to it.

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Quite a lot of scope for upgrades/hop-ups:

58568_1.jpg

Parts I'm hoping will be released soon:

Turnbuckle tie rods and upper links

Aluminium propshaft

Metal dogbones/universals/drive cups

Carbon upper deck

Aluminium steering rack

Aluminium bit that goes over the front propshaft drive cup, between the steering rack pivots

I see Yeah Racing are already listing some TT-02 hop-ups, some of which will also work on the TT-02B. And the hopped-up TT-02B pictured earlier in this thread hopefully indicates that Tamiya will be releasing some hop-ups for the model themselves soon. Here's hoping they are available by Christmas, which is when I am hoping to add this to my collection.

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The aluminium propshaft has already been confirmed by Tamiya for the TT-02 and should be the same for the TT-02B. I had one TT-02 in my hands and the (shorter and more reinforced) plastic shaft left a more positive impression than the (long and weak) plastic shaft of the TT-01.

A complete set of turnbuckle links would be great. I'm sure Tamiya will release such a hop up, although they can also be made by purchasing single links.

The aluminium steering rack was said to be essential for the TT-01, while the TT-01E got an improved plastic steering mechanism that benefitted a lot from using ball bearings (sold seperately). I wonder if the TT-02B retains the improved steering from the TT-01E?

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Manual now available to download from tamiya usa!

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