Egress VS. Top Force Evolution

[FC5687]

Hello!

I have read the instruction manuals of both Egress and Top Force Evo, especially the Top Force Evo because I am working on it right now.

After the discussion with friends and studying the Egress instruction manual, I found Egress is an advance design. It uses a ball centre diff, front and rear diff. Some kind like the RCL Incident but with a more advance suspension arms design along with independent shock mounting that Incident doesn't. It is an interesting car!

However, I have compared both design of Top Force Evo and Egress. Maybe the actual racing one will be better than the other. I could not say which one is better than the other based on their design on paper. I have visited the google group search and find out some old postings which are the discussions between the Top Force Evo and Egress. Over 99% claimed that, Egress is good for showing off the engineering on the shelf, but the Top Force is more likely made for club racing. Any comments? I'm really curious about these 2 RC buggies.

The Top Force Evo has an advantage over the Egress is the parts availability. I can make a Top Froce Evo from parts (and hop up parts) purchasing even it's kind of hard; but still make it. I doubt it the Egress still have any parts available such as diff gears and centre diff gears.

What are the differences between Avante2001 and Egress? Which one is better?

[ideal2k]

Avante2001:

Plastic CVA shocks F+R

Front shocks mounted at 45 degree angle (unlike Egress)

Gear diff F+R

3rd centre ball-diff

FRP chassis

Sport Tuned motor.

Same width wheels F+R with weird discs instead of nuts

Wide front bumper

Same tyres as Dirt Thrasher

Egress:

Hi-cap dampers F+R

Front shocks at close to 90 degree angle

Special "gold" springs

Black lightweight wheels F+R

"Hybrid" spike tyres

Carbon chassis

Dynatech 01R motor

Balldiff F+R

Centre 3rd diff not included, comes with torque splitter centre

Titanium screws

It's fair to say that the Egress is better. However, the 3rd centre diff made for a much better handling characteristic than the torque splitter often would..

As for the Top Force Evo vs Egress, they are different cars alltogether.

I have raced both cars during my years in racing.

Depending on which track, you would get advantages for either car.

The Top Force is primarily suited to smooth tracks with loong winding turns.

I don't think I'd have any trouble driving just as fast with my Egress/2001 hybrid as I would be with my Top Force Evo.

You can't really say either car is better.

If I had to pick, I guess I would go for the Top Force, but the Egress is more appealing for nostalgic reasons.

[RETRO R/C]

Just to be different in my experience:

For race track work, even general driving, the Evo is the superior buggy by a considerable margin in my opinion....

(optionions are like butt cracks though - everyone has one - and is entitled to one ! [] )

The EVO has a much better and had a far stronger, (read : RELIABLE), suspension system which soaked up the bumps with relative ease when compared to the stiff and short travel of the egress.

Sure - the egress drivetrain has the advantage off the centre diff - however it is still far from user friendly. Add to the fact, that on the egress, the third diff was rather useless!

Parts reliability was also poor on the egress when compared to the Evo, particularly the suspension arms and parts associated with the suspension.

Just my two cents - total respect as always to others opinions.

Cheers

Darryn

[ideal2k]

Retro I agree with you, but none of these two buggys were particularly good on choppy tracks.

They both like sort of even surfaces.

And the Egress is great for nostalgia []

[FC5687]

My friend told me exactly what you comment on the Egress. I heard lots of reliability porblem from the owner of Avante back to late 80s'. I was almost retire from this hobby at that moment, so I don't care too much about it. Today, I think the Egress supposed resolve the problem of Avante before release to the market, but it seems not based on all different people opinion about this car.

This is actually what my friend said couple days ago: "The Egress is great on paper, but not as good as the RCL Incident in terms of reliability and actual performance in real world, even the Incident born earlier. Both car also use centre ball diff along with front and rear ball diff. The Top Force is the best buggy so far from Tamiya."

Do you agree with what he said? []

quote:Originally posted by RETRO R/C

Just to be different in my experience:

For race track work, even general driving, the Evo is the superior buggy by a considerable margin in my opinion....

(optionions are like butt cracks though - everyone has one - and is entitled to one ! [] )

The EVO has a much better and had a far stronger, (read : RELIABLE), suspension system which soaked up the bumps with relative ease when compared to the stiff and short travel of the egress.

Sure - the egress drivetrain has the advantage off the centre diff - however it is still far from user friendly. Add to the fact, that on the egress, the third diff was rather useless!

Parts reliability was also poor on the egress when compared to the Evo, particularly the suspension arms and parts associated with the suspension.

Just my two cents - total respect as always to others opinions.

Cheers

Darryn

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[FC5687]

After reading you guys comments, I wonder how much I miss for last 13 some years [V] Especially, when I look at both Top Force Evo and Egress. Too sad the Egress looks pretty good but not good in reality.

It might be off the topic. But I really curious about the UK made Tenth Technology Predator P8! Even though I still working on my Top Force Project, but almost done. I found GPM only offering Hub Carrier and steering block in alloy for Top Force, due to those parts still popular bacause of the TA01.

The only I seen in this hobby today after coming back a while ago, the buggy market almost dead in North America and Asia after the conversation with friends on the phone! The distributor of Yokomo in HK does not have the MR-4BC special kit and this kit release almost a year based on the Yokomo website indicate (October 2002); and all RC shop in both Canada and US does not sotck any Elctric 2WD and 4WD buggy at all. Why they (both manufacturers and market) kill the buggy? []

That's made me feel the British people extremely lucky. They still get the racing track and passion on 1/10 Electric off road buggy.[^]

quote:Originally posted by ideal2k

Avante2001:

Plastic CVA shocks F+R

Front shocks mounted at 45 degree angle (unlike Egress)

Gear diff F+R

3rd centre ball-diff

FRP chassis

Sport Tuned motor.

Same width wheels F+R with weird discs instead of nuts

Wide front bumper

Same tyres as Dirt Thrasher

Egress:

Hi-cap dampers F+R

Front shocks at close to 90 degree angle

Special "gold" springs

Black lightweight wheels F+R

"Hybrid" spike tyres

Carbon chassis

Dynatech 01R motor

Balldiff F+R

Centre 3rd diff not included, comes with torque splitter centre

Titanium screws

It's fair to say that the Egress is better. However, the 3rd centre diff made for a much better handling characteristic than the torque splitter often would..

As for the Top Force Evo vs Egress, they are different cars alltogether.

I have raced both cars during my years in racing.

Depending on which track, you would get advantages for either car.

The Top Force is primarily suited to smooth tracks with loong winding turns.

I don't think I'd have any trouble driving just as fast with my Egress/2001 hybrid as I would be with my Top Force Evo.

You can't really say either car is better.

If I had to pick, I guess I would go for the Top Force, but the Egress is more appealing for nostalgic reasons.

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[RETRO R/C]

I strongly beleive that the best 4wd buggy from Tamiya, (even up till now ! - the new "neo shot" when modded may be a different story though !), was the Top Force Evo - nice "solid" handling - not too skittish....all round good race car...."for a Tamiya"....

As for the Incident - man they are TREMENDOUS - I still have my highly modigied one with full carbon chassis , alloy motor mounts etc etc etc - highly specialised car !! One of a kind as a matter of fact !

Dont get me wrong - the Egress was nice (and had that awesome "over the top technology" look) - but handled no where near as well as the Evo.

Cheers

Darryn

[Bibbo]

quote:Originally posted by RETRO R/C

I strongly beleive that the best 4wd buggy from Tamiya, (even up till now ! - the new "neo shot" when modded may be a different story though !), was the Top Force Evo - nice "solid" handling - not too skittish....all round good race car...."for a Tamiya"....

As for the Incident - man they are TREMENDOUS - I still have my highly modigied one with full carbon chassis , alloy motor mounts etc etc etc - highly specialised car !! One of a kind as a matter of fact !

Dont get me wrong - the Egress was nice (and had that awesome "over the top technology" look) - but handled no where near as well as the Evo.

Cheers

Darryn

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Is there a possibility of some details pictures of this Incident buggy? It sounds very interesting.

[spiff84(2)]

hi

yeah i would love a look too. I did a search on the net, but no pictures came up

Thanks

[ideal2k]

Well, pUs, you're infact wrong yourself.

First off, I did say in my post that while the Avante and the Vanquish came with the centre diff, the Egress came with the torque splitter. So you can't say "you're all wrong".

Then, second of all you can not adjust the Egress balldiff with the three screws that hold it together.

It is not designed to work that way.

The only way to adjust the diff pressure is to change position of, add, or remove the angled pressure plates inside the diff.

That would be the proper way to do it.

The screws are designed to be tightened all the way, and loosening them will only serve to your disadvantage.

[jerzirccar]

GUYS GUYS!!

The EGRESS is something the EVO is like "normal" 4wd car to drive. The EGRESS is just an cool car drive I dont mean that it is so HISTORIC. I use the one way bearing to make the car more easily to drive. Just my opinion.

Jerry

[RETRO R/C]

Yep - I fell into the trap of calling it a diff as well - just easier to relate to what others are saying I guess - not many people really have a good understanding of these things.

As for the Incident - I am unable to do anything for a couple of weeks - however I will try and get some pics of my old race car - very modified though !

Cheers

Darryn

[FC5687]

Hello Darryn!

The Carbon chassis you use in your Incident is off the shelf product or custom made by someone?

If this is a custom made project, are you still having the paper work of the graphite chassis you can share with me. I still get some parts of the Incident that I can build a complete car, espeically that will be perfect if i can have a graphite chassis.

Thank you!

quote:Originally posted by RETRO R/C

Yep - I fell into the trap of calling it a diff as well - just easier to relate to what others are saying I guess - not many people really have a good understanding of these things.

As for the Incident - I am unable to do anything for a couple of weeks - however I will try and get some pics of my old race car - very modified though !

Cheers

Darryn

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[tanker(2)]

What is an 'incident'? Can someone show some pictures please.

Not that I think Top force evolution is perfect, I think it is a superb/great car but I am amazed to hear that 'incident' is better/comaparable to the evo. What happen to the manufacturer of the 'incident'??

[FC5687]

Click on the following link.

http://vigor2000.hp.infoseek.co.jp/rc/rc-ages1b.htm

You will find a company called RCL International (in Japanese character except the letters -- RCL), and one of the most popular Japanese RC magazine report the prototype of RCL Incident by 1985 Spring. I still remember that it is the same issue along with the report of Team Associated original RC10 with 6010 aluminum chassis.

The prototype of RCL Incident is has the following features:

- Exotic plastic in orange colour all the way through

- Three ball diff for centre, front and rear; this is very rare back to the 80s'!

- Independent shock damper []

Unfortunately, the production unit that I bought back in 1986 Fall; the kit comes with ABS chassis, suspension arms, gear boxes, etc. instead of some exotic plastic I have seen on the magazine which use in the prototype. Mono-shock instead of independent shock damper. The manufacturer (RCL) seems cut corner. I feel very disappointed when I bought this kit back then. [!] Because it is a quite different car compare to the one on the magazine.

The RCL Incident design concept is ahead of its time and they could be the king of off road buggy back to the 80s' if they weren't cut corner. When I seen their production unit show up in front of me in 1986 September, I was so anxious because I have been waiting for this car almost one year. But they are very different compare to the prototype. But I still pay for it, even I have a little bit disapponited due to cutting too much corners, eg. ABS parts, mono-shock, etc.

As far as design goes, this car can be modify to independent shocks like mine back to 1987. I also did a mod to my super mod Boormerang to independent shock at the same time. I am really proud of owning these 2 different shaft drive design at that time. I have race either one with the famous Dog Fighter YZ870C and Mid-Optima. These shaft drive cars perform extremely well!! I just finish the Top Force Evo (I can call almost Evo) and done the test drive last night. This car is amazing. I can say a good set up RCL Incident comes very close maybe, not sure without the actual Incident in hand to do the testing between both. One thing for sure either Top Force or Incident like the smoother track.

I would like to ask my friend to duplicate the gear box, gears, suspension arms of Incident which I have on hand by using Delrin along with independent. Let see how this car work if bring this buggy back to the prototype condition (with exotic plastics).

Finally, the RCL is running by a different owner today and making some aluminum and carbon parts for touring cars from Tamiya (eg. TA02). This is sad! []

quote:Originally posted by tanker

What is an 'incident'? Can someone show some pictures please.

Not that I think Top force evolution is perfect, I think it is a superb/great car but I am amazed to hear that 'incident' is better/comaparable to the evo. What happen to the manufacturer of the 'incident'??

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[ideal2k]

I can't understand the language

[FC5687]

quote:Originally posted by ideal2k

I can't understand the language

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Try this: http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Copy and paste the paragraph you want to read. []

[FC5687]

quote:Originally posted by ideal2k

Retro I agree with you, but none of these two buggys were particularly good on choppy tracks.

They both like sort of even surfaces.

And the Egress is great for nostalgia []

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Do you think the Tenth Technology Predator P8 drive well on choppy tracks? []

[wldnas]

Hmm Very interesting Web site that Infoseek RC-ages? []

it virtually reads like my Showroom [] as I have most of the cars in there, and those that I don't have, I'm in the process of aquiring, the RCL Incident being one of them...

I would probably like to get a Yokomo Super Dogfighter at some point, also there is another reference to the JMC backfire at the bottom (shame there is no picture) but the one thing on there that has aroused my curiosity is the unidentified Playtron 4WD? I suspect it's a car called the SPACE BUGGY?

also it's very nice to finally see a picture of the Hirobo Jealousy in it's intended form... very unusual indeed??

[ideal2k]

Btw, I remember the Lynx was really cheap, but it would take all kinds of beatings.

Lots of people I knew bought the Lynx just to play around with.

The chassis reminded me of the Subaru brat..