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ddaenen1

Top Force restoration - choice to be made

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finally, after many months of searching and a big portion of luck, i managed to buy an original Top Force for pennies!

In between all the searching i bought a Manta Ray and upgraded it to a " hybrid" Top Force which turned into this:

1354371055NIMG_20121201_00238.jpg

It looks entirely like a TF but underneath is still the bathtub frame and it has all other TF parts including swingshafts and all

Now that i managed to buy this:

TF2.JPG

i have 2 choices: upgrade the Manta Ray with the FRP parts and the balldiffs (the only parts that i do not have in the hybrid) of the Top Force and keep all other parts as is, or restore the Top Force to an original again. I am unsure what to do as the Manta Ray is almost a Top Force except for the FRP and the ball Diffs.

In any cases, i only want to keep one and sell off the other one.

Help memake the right choice. What is your opinion?

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dont forget, you will need the alloy mount parts, thats the hard part in turning a DF01 tube chassis in a FRP chassis.

nice cars

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dont forget, you will need the alloy mount parts, thats the hard part in turning a DF01 tube chassis in a FRP chassis.

nice cars

Yes i realise that and this is the reason i bought a complete TF in the first place (for 50 Euro on marktplaats.nl btw which is a real bargain) , but the TF i bought is an original one so it has all the goodies including the mount set. My aim is to get one fully blown TF and one hybrid once again to sell. I just am doubting in which direction i should go with this. The Hybrid has alu knuckles, prop shaft, GPM dampers, and so on and built from scratch with stainless hex-screws so i am leaning towards adding the FRP parts to convert the hybrid into a genuine TF and use the remaining parts to build and upgraded Manta Ray. Do you know what i am trying to say here?

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Well honestly it makes no difference... both are effectively the same vehicle save the differences you've pointed out. Whichever way you do it the result will be the same or similar.

You have enough parts for two vehicles, you will end up with two vehicles with different configurations. Putting parts from A onto B is just the same in this case as putting parts from B onto A.

Just decide which individual components you want to keep, build that vehicle then build the second one with the spare parts...

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Personally I'd put all the best parts onto the FRP chassis - build it to original spec, and then decise whether to use the alloy or CVA shocks. Whilst the GPM shocks might appear better, they won't perform any better than the CVAs and you may prefer to stick to box art.

The rest goes into the hybrid for sale.

Another approach..

Put the best parts into the hybrid still using the plastic bathtub chassis, and then sell the rest off as parts sales - the alloy chassis posts would get you half your purchase price back alone.

All depends how much you want the FRP chassis at the end of the day.

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I made my choice. I have mounted the best parts of the Hybrid onto the FRP chassis after complete disassembly and some serious cleaning!

This is the interim result:

IMG-20130602-00543.jpg

IMG-20130602-00544.jpg

It now still has the gear diffs from the hybrid inside whilst i am completely revising the ball diffs. which were running more dry than the sahara. Then i will swap the current GPM swingshaft with the original ones and in the mean time the FRP battery holders which did not come with the car will have arrived and a new undercowl that i still need to order.

What definately will change from the above picture are the shocks. Either i will install the hi-caps (if they can be found for a reasonable price) or the Dyna Storm (same conditions) or in the worst case i'll put the CVA shocks on again or this alternative from GMade which i believe is a solid alternative for original Tamiya shocks and come in 85cm and 93cm which would be perfect.

http://store.rc4wd.com/XD-Diaphragm-Shock-Absorber-85mm-2_p_2686.html

To be continued...

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I see a Castle motor in there. Is there also an alloy motor mount and a steel 0.6mod pinion? I also highly recommend a TA02 all plastic gearset instead of using the aluminium idler gears and the two piece spur gear that is supplied in the DF01 buggy kits. With a Castle motor fitted you will get one or two battery packs and the pinion (and spur) will be toast if the pinion is a Tamiya AV pinion, and you will get around 10 packs through it and the aluminium idler gears (and the diff gear) will be toast.

Also it's a good idea to make up a brace for the top gear cover to help hold it down. The three screws just isn't enough and the top cover will split out around the screw between the two idler shafts (motor side).

The ball diffs will last ok if you bond the outdrive cups into the diff (with the bearing on first). Because they have a shorter spline on the outdrive cups than the gear diffs they chew the spline off pretty quickly if they are able to move. I use some loctite to keep them bonded in place.

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I see a Castle motor in there. Is there also an alloy motor mount and a steel 0.6mod pinion? I also highly recommend a TA02 all plastic gearset instead of using the aluminium idler gears and the two piece spur gear that is supplied in the DF01 buggy kits. With a Castle motor fitted you will get one or two battery packs and the pinion (and spur) will be toast if the pinion is a Tamiya AV pinion, and you will get around 10 packs through it and the aluminium idler gears (and the diff gear) will be toast.

Yes, Alloy GPM mount and steel pinion. also all plastic gearset installed when i revised the gear casing last year. I am aware of the issue with the gear case cap on the rear drivetrain. I saw a nice fix on another forum but haven't done anything on that one. Seemed to work fine on the Hybrid. I do have Stainless screwz with metric thread instead of self-tapping. Maybe that makes a difference.

I am running on 2S Lipo packs but am aware the chassis has its limits with Castle Power :)

Thanks for the recommendation.

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Just a quick update. The Top Force is not ready yet as i have been thinking for very long what to do with the dampers as i didnt like the combo. That has been decided now and since Hicaps are extremely rare and/or stupidly expensive, i am going for Dyna Storm dampers. Now i hear you think "are these not even more rare?". Well fact is that i got my hands on the main components (the alu barels and caps) and i will build them up myself. Other parts are easily to get.

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And my Top Force is ready! I got the Dyna Storms dampers together and they work excellent. I did in the mean time acquire TF Evo carbo lower and upper but that is for after my vacation.

Here some pics:

IMG-20130707-00595.jpg

IMG-20130707-00597.jpg

IMG-20130707-00599.jpg

IMG-20130707-00600.jpg

I can say that with the Castle combo it flies and almost too fast to handle at full throttle. I am considering putting a torque splitter in but i am unsure if this will really have any influence and if any, what will it do to the behaviour of the car.

I'll post some new pics as soon as i have exchanged the FRP parts with the carbon Evo parts.

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Great car, well done rebuild. B)

A torque splitter will reduce rolling resistance and make for easier cornering...

It won't make it more controllable at full throttle.

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Now, i almost finished the Avante and am waiting for the final bits to come in and for my new acquisition to arrive i remember i still wanted to post pictures of the TF EVO carbon parts built on the TF.

Well, here they are:

IMG-20131103-00136.jpg

IMG-20131103-00137.jpg

IMG-20131103-00138.jpg

Actually i realised that it is not finished yet. I still need to get a new undercowl since the current one is toast and furthermore and also i still need to replace front and rear lower arms which are in my stash, ready to be assembled.

Now that i am look at it again, i regret a couple of things. I should have left the original prop shaft on instead of this blue alu version from GPM and stupidly enough i sold it bult in a manta ray. Also, i wonder if i need to take the Castle combo out and replace it with something more "TF suitable" and i don't like the blue front alu joints anymore. Might replace them with black ones. Same counts for the servo stays. Also, i still need to remove the paint from the window areas which i mistakenly didn't mask as i didn't know the window decals were transparent.

I am really turning entire vintage, aren't i? :blink:

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