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Brushless in vintage cars - for efficiency, not speed?

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So this question really applies both vintage and re-release cars... anything designed in the 1980s.

It's hard to ignore the efficiency improvements in the electrical pipeline that have been made since the 1980s -- I run ESC's in my old cars for both safety and better battery usage, even while leaving the ceramic resistors on for show! But so far I haven't moved past the 1980s in terms of silver can motors.

Reading up on brushless motors, it seems there are enormous advantages in terms of both maintenance (no chance of dirt or sand getting in), as well as decreased resistance. I'm wondering what kind of brushless motor, tuning parameters, and ESC configuration would be the best bet to:

  • NOT strain old gearboxes or require replacing spur gears
  • NOT cost $300 for the motor alone :wacko:
  • NOT push the speed of an old buggy past what the steering and suspension can handle
  • DO increase the runtime and the bang-per-charge of a given battery?

I'm asking in this forum because so many of the brushless posts elsewhere seem to be about reaching 60+MPH, which I don't want to do in a 959 with that original lexan shell! :)

So I'm curious if there's a set of recommended motors, ESCs, and tuning parameters (throttle response, punch, etc) that will accomplish this? The goal would be to ensure any car in the first 100 will run as long as it can on a given charge, but not make me slam it into the wall with molten gears flying out of the chassis! :D

thanks!

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I have the excact same feeling. I prefer the old brushed motors in the cars especially for the looks, but when it comes to driving primarely the rere's, nothing beats a mild brushless setup on 2 s lipo. Way more efficient and longer runtimes. So far I have a Trackstar 17,5 motor and a Hobbyking 35 amp esc in my Avante 2011, and it runs on a 2s Turnigy nanotech lipo, that fits perfect in the car. It gives more or less the same speed as the sporttuned would give, acceleration is better and very smooth, due to the sensored system and it drives like forever on one charge. Best of all is that the price is very reasonable from Hobbyking,

You can see the car here:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=120522&sid=32970

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I used a brushless motor to overcome the limits in the Mad Bull's drivetrain, as well as keeping long runtimes. Both demands weren't possible with a brushed motor:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68383&page=1

However, 16 Turns / 2500 kV is still a handful at times - something around 17.5 Turns or 2000 kV should be more like Tamiya silvercan speed with the benefit of long runtimes and zero maintenance, I think?

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The 17.5T on 2s Lipos would be a great system for you. I run 13.5Ts on 3s in many of my cars (Fox, Boomerang and Wraith).

The boomer is the most reliable and I've been through countless packs without issue. Though I jimmy rigged the gearboxes before learning that the re re clips don't work properly in the vintage gear cases. I recently torn up a few gears, but it was due to the crappy band-aid mod. I'm gonna swap the gearboxes for re-re cases and be good to go.

The fox is by far the fastest (and has broken a few <cough> parts.) and the wraith, well it does what it does.

Hobby king has decent serious for what your looking for.

I use the Reaktor systems (available at my LSH) for my Tamiyas so I don't have to wait. The system costs $100, which is just about perfect.

The Reaktors I use are a 13.5T but I'd think you'd be fine if you run them on 2s. They will be a little more zippy than a sport tuned motor.

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I dunno about the speed thing. Brushless motors can be more efficient (i'm putting one in my RC10 b2) but many older tamiyas may not be strong enough to operate with the added HP. I cant even imagine how a Grasshopper would run (i imagine upsidedown) with anything more than a stock motor. I like staying rightsize up. For me, all of my tamiyas run closed end bell stock motors. With a 5000 NiMh, my race hornet will run for 45 minutes at full pelt. So long in fact, my arms hurt before the car dies. I would just get a high capacity battery and call it a day. But change scares me. I don't even own a real car with a computer in it so I may not be the best person to have commented. :unsure:

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I'd consider trying a sensored system, but I had a cheapo sensorless brushless setup for a while and HATED it. That low-speed stutter followed by an explosion of power is exactly what you don't want to keep 25 year old gears happy.

Personally, I'm happiest with a silver-can 540, nice modern ESC, and 2s lipo in my vintage cars. Still looks and feels right, but just a bit more oomph.

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Of all changes, I found Lipo to make the biggest difference. They will breath new life into your vintage electronics. I don't like to run my vintage cars for extended amounts of time so this ideal for me. More power, more runtime, easier battery maintenance, etc. I don't even bother with the Low Voltage Cutoffs cause I only use about half a charge before motor temps start to rise.

If you want to drive longer, just bring more cars. :D

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I guess I`ll throw my $.02 in here since I have a couple brushless setups in original vintage (not re-release) cars.

My Grasshopper II has a 4300KV with 60A ezrun system, and a 3s LiPo. I paid about $100 for the motor/esc, and about 20 for the 3s 40C battery. I am pretty sure it is 2500mah. Plenty of run time...like way more than I ever use in one outing. Atleast a half hour of buzzing up and down our road if I can keep from crashing. Great for bashing. Way to fast though. No problems at all with the gearbox or drivetrain. Im always breaking shock mounts, servo savers, bodies..... This combo was in an original release Hornet for a while, and the back tires were actually torn apart from the centrifugal force after a few runs.

My Midnight Pumpkin has a reedy 3300KV system, not sure of the speed controller, but it works well. Paid $60 for the combo used, and has been dependable. Ran it with both a 2s and 3s LiPo. Again, plenty of run time just like the grasshopper. Again, a little too fast, I can get it up to about 30mph, hit the throttle, and it will wheelie. No gearbox or drive train problems. I`ve given up on body mounts though....broke at least 8 of them, so I resorted to to velcro. Also broke alot of shock mounts.

I have youtube videos if you guys would like to see them, but they are not the best quality.

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If you want silver can style speed but massively increased run times, get a 21.5t motor combo, sensored if u can afford it, but no biggy if it's sensorless with a slow motor like that.

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