Egress & Avante 2001 revamp!

[94eg! 834]

...Assembled again the differential now is smooth as new. I used Associated silicon grease for ball differentials...

These diffs were NEVER smooth when new. You definitely made it better than they ever were.

[ralphee 293]

Keep looking at this one, that body shell, so simple, yet adds bags of character to the car, its gonna look fantastic!

lee

[kontemax 1725]

Ahahahah!

You are right but I said "smooth like new" and not "smoother than new". This not means that the diff is totally smooth but that is not worse than new . I believe it is impossible to obtain a "better than new" with this diffs.

Max

These diffs were NEVER smooth when new. You definitely made it better than they ever were.

[kontemax 1725]

Ok, time for some update.

Yesterday a little package is arrived from Stella Model.

The modern Avante Black Special ball differentials are a must have for a decent runner. So I'll rebuilt also the front vintage ball differential but will mount these new babies on this Egress. The old rebuilded diffs will go on my Avante, or Avante 2001 or Vanquish shelf queens, will decide later which one of them.

Now it's time to rebuild the front gearbox.

The front end of this car is in good conditions. Usually is the most ruined part due it's position on the car during crashes.

Nothing broke here.

Max

[Tamiya Era 778]

Very interesting! as can be seen from last photo this was a Vanquish from the front bumper part ( G8 ). Nice to see your Vanquish was evolved to Egress

[kontemax 1725]

Here the rear side of the gearbox. Notice the yellow sponge where there's the top chassis plate:

This sponge is an idea of mine. I cut some thin sponge stripes and glued them to the edges of the gearboxes of my runner. Then I slightly greased them and closed everything. The excessive sponge was burned with a lighter.

This helps to keep sand, debris and powder out of geartrain. It works.

In fact the gears and the internal of the gearbox is clean, no dirt inside and you can see only the weared burned grease on the gears.

The internal parts.

This is the front ball diff that will be cleaned, regreased and the plates sanded to make it smoother as possible.

Max

[kontemax 1725]

On 8/1/2014 at 9:01 PM, Tamiya Era said:

 

 

Very interesting! as can be seen from last photo this was a Vanquish from the front bumper part ( G8 ). Nice to see your Vanquish was evolved to Egress

You are eagle eye!

This car was birth as an Egress. The Vanquish G8 part is a my modification. This is the best and cheapest solution to obtain a stronger front end without spend many money in an aluminum part:

Now it's the turn of the front dampers.

You can see the Losi red springs. I did cut them to obtain the right lenght and they are a perfect fit.

You can also see the adjustable turnbuckles all around and the perfect GS Racing yellow ball ends.

The dampers will be refurbished, I will change the o-rings and possibly the spacer (do you know if some modern fluorine spacer will works on these dampers?). Another idea is to use titanium nitride gold damper shafts. Will also change the lower ball ends and the ball connectors.

This is a great little option I made by myself with the lathe:

The rubber top spacers are made with a softer rubber compound and the balls are made of nylon to avoid damper wear and plays on the suspension.

Max

[kontemax 1725]

Here another tip for the re release Egress that misses the lower damper mounts. I lost one of them on the track years ago so I rebuilt them with a simple 2 mm thick "L" shaped aluminum plate. You can find it easy in a hardware store. Then saw and file et voilà. I made it for both sides.

Also the front shock tower has some upgrade. Damper spacers are one piece shaped at the lathe. They are treaded so they remain on the shock tower with the screws.

The shock tower itself is carbon fiber made for many reasons: it's beautiful, it's stronger, it's different from the original one.

The front shock tower often breaks the gearbox mount during the roll overs. So my shock tower continues downside and has four mounting points.

You can see it better once disassembled.

No more breakages.

Gearbox shelves. The sponge sealant all around.

Now will clean and regrease everything.

Stay tuned.

Max

[kyosho1 86]

I just read a translated japanese blog on a vintage Egress updated to race with current offerings.

Does anyone understand his explanation on using the Avante aluminium steering with Egress parts. Something about improving the ankerman.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://rajikonspmania.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-103.html%3Fsp&usg=ALkJrhhEhbwlW5i1B1YP6ODE5fPv2hdynA

[94eg! 834]

I looked at the pics and I get what he's implying. Though he has it quite wrong. The avante steering plate has allowed him to add spacers to the inner tie-rod balls which pushes inner balls forward. What this adjustment does with a bell-crank type steering, is increases or decreases the ackerman gain as the steering moves though it's range. The problem I see is that by moving the balls forward, he has effectively decreased what little ackerman the steering system might have already had. By moving the balls further forward, he will be straightening the angle of the tie-rods at maximum lock. This will reduce the steering angle of the inner wheel and increase the steering angle of the outer wheel at maximum lock. This is the exact OPPOSITE of what we need on the Avante series.

Additionally this modification does nothing for the actual static ackerman setting of which the Avante is ALL WRONG! On a proper car, the imaginary line between the steering pivot (king pins) and the tie-rod pivots should intersect directly at the center of the rear axle line as shown here.

Due to the Avantes bad knuckle design, these lines point straight backwards and run parallel to each other. It could never be corrected without re-designed knuckles.

BTW: You could test this guys mod yourself on the Egress by turning the steering bridge around. That too would move the inner tie-rod pivots forward.

[kyosho1 86]

I didn't realized that he put spacers to bring the steering rods forward until you pointed it out and it was evident in the zoomed in pic of his right suspension. Thanks.

I think the designer purposely designed the Avante series without ankerman in the front hub cos he expects us to toe in or toe out the steering to create the desired ankerman.

This is because we have a choice on the central diff.

If it is a one way, use toe in.

If it is a ball diff, use toe out.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[kontemax 1725]

I will replace the steering plate on my Egress runner to obtain an Ackermann angle.

Stay tuned.

Max

[94eg! 834]

I didn't realized that he put spacers to bring the steering rods forward until you pointed it out and it was evident in the zoomed in pic of his right suspension. Thanks.

I think the designer purposely designed the Avante series without ankerman in the front hub cos he expects us to toe in or toe out the steering to create the desired ankerman.

This is because we have a choice on the central diff.

If it is a one way, use toe in.

If it is a ball diff, use toe out.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Ackerman has littler or nothing to do with your static toe setting. Your outside wheel ALWAYS must follow a greater arc than the inside wheel. Adding a couple degrees of toe-out will not point those imaginary lines anywhere near where they are supposed to be for the wheels to follow any sort of proper radius at any given time. The designers simply dropped the ball. Especially when you consider the horrible scrub-radius as well. Precision steering, this thing has not!

[kontemax 1725]

I agree with you but I always drove the Egress without steering problems on the track. The only problem (just a little problem anyway) I found was the torque steer due the power and the torque of the 10 and 12 turns motor I used.

Max

On 13/1/2014 at 3:23 PM, 94eg! said:

Ackerman has littler or nothing to do with your static toe setting. Your outside wheel ALWAYS must follow a greater arc than the inside wheel. Adding a couple degrees of toe-out will not point those imaginary lines anywhere near where they are supposed to be for the wheels to follow any sort of proper radius at any given time. The designers simply dropped the ball. Especially when you consider the horrible scrub-radius as well. Precision steering, this thing has not!

[kyosho1 86]

Good point.

To correct the Ackerman with toe out in Avante is quite impossible because it has to be a very wide toe out which would make the buggy very unstable.

[kontemax 1725]

Ok, time for some update. All front gearbox is cleaned and refurbished now.

Also the front ball differential is done. It received the same treatment of the rear differential. Now is smooth like new.

Both these differentials will go on my Avante 2001.

The new Black Special ball differentials will go on this runner, modern concept and design, they will be more and more smoother than the vintage ones.

Front gearbox cleaned:

The new differential will go inside this gearbox. Planning to replace all gears with new ones:

You can see my sponge filters against the dust.

And now the front ball differential.

Worn:

Cleaned:

Max

[kontemax 1725]

I'm slowly going on with this restoring job.

The front gearbox is all cleaned and refurbished, I need to assemble now the modern ball diff.

Finally I finished the front shock tower. It missed, if you remember, the right carbon reinforcing plate. Today I did it at the end and added it. The shock tower seems better in life than in this picture. The entire shock tower is handmade, as you can see the material is not the original FRP but is pure carbon fiber, 2 mm thick with two 0,5 mm reinforcing plates. You can also see that it has four mounting holes. This adds strength to the piece itself and to the gearbox mounts that are prone to break when you land upside down after a jump. I tested the item and it didn't break.

Assembled gearbox with blue nuts and handmade lower damper mounts. New gold parts replace the old pot metal ones.

That's all for now.

Max

[kontemax 1725]

Somebody please knows where I can find parts to refurbish the dampers like the lower spacers?

O-ring are common, top seals are the same of the Dark Impact, I now need to find the lower spacers because they are worn and the damper shaft moves too much.

Another advice please: you can see the ball ends. They are GS Racing, very tight and very smooth at the same time but it was impossible to find them in black or blue. The steel ball ends are 4 mm.

Do you know some black or blue 4 mm metric ball ends and where I can buy them?

Many thanks

Max

[kontemax 1725]

Ok, time to revamp also the thread.

As you all probably know I have too many cars in my collection and not too many money and time to follow all of them as I would like.
I have many projects yet open, like this one, like the Terra Conqueror and Blazing Star one and like the Rat Shot, probably the higher example of my unfinished works.
Anyway today I found some time to continue on my Egress runner.
The front gearbox is completed, refurbished and upgraded, now it's the time of the rear one.

The first step is, as always, the disassembling.

I I did think to find many damages or worn out parts due the powerful motor I used on the track but everything seems in good conditions.
The gearbox shells are ok, only dirt inside and outside. The yellow material you see on the edges is a small line of sponge that I'm used to glue on the gearbox of my runners. It seals the shells and no more dust enters inside them. Probably not beautiful to see but functional.

Infact no dust or debris inside.

But have a look at this rear gearbox. Don't you see something different?

Have a closer look:

There's no screw hole under the spur gear shell. For sure this is an Avante Mk1 gearbox. I received this Egress used from an Italian collector so probably this is an Avante conversion.

Anyway, the gears are ok, only dirty. I used a steel pinion gear but the spur gear teeth are black as usual but this is only the burned grease, not the terrible paste of grease and aluminum that you find if you use the original aluminum pinion gears. Just a quick wash with a degreaser will solve the problem.

I made many tests on the track and found that the best solution for this car is all ball differentials. The car runs better and is smoother to control. The worse solution is the center locked gear, the car is hard to drive, expecially on rough and dusty surfaces. I feel the car hard, don't know how I can explain. And I feel the transmission under pressure. The second solution is the torque splitter set but it is a mix of hard feeling with more nervous behaviours in the turns. The best solution with hot motors, in my opinion, remains the center ball differential. And I used it. Once disassembled all the parts are clean and in perfect conditions. This differential is bomb proof!

All metal parts need some tender care.

Expecially the gearbox pillars that are oxidated by the water and the mud. I had some problem to unscrew and extract them from the gearbox. I will clean and polish them like new.

Also the chassis will have a good clean up!

Now I close this post with the last picture for today. This is the carbon fiber motor mount I did for this runner.
I strongly believe that the original aluminum motor plate is undersized for the motor I used on the track. I believe that it flexes with the torque, so I made this strong and hard to flex part. In fact the car became less noisy with it.
Also the motor mount is not so good so I went for the steel Vanquish one, waiting to build a thicker one with a 3 mm aluminum plate. I yet didn't this job. I hope to have the time to do it now.

The only drawback with the carbon motor plate is that it doesn't cool the motor like the aluminum but nothing that a good motor cooler can't do. That's all for today.

Max

[Plopes 138]

Hi Max, I'm loving this restore build.

Your high attention to detail is great.

[kontemax 1725]

Polishing the chassis plates.

Max

[kontemax 1725]

Finally the rear gearbox is finished.

As I said the center ball diff was almost perfect, I only washed it and regreased it but it was not really necessary.

Ball bearings was in perfect shape so they need no refurbishment.

I cleaned all the gears included the spur gear. The teeth remained a little bit blackish but I believe this is due the previous use of the original alloy pinion gears. Anyway these teeth are in good shape so I don't mind about their color.

The carbon motor plate has been polished. It still present some imperfections but it is a part hand made.

Now that the rear geabox is finished I must polish all metal parts and the lower chassis plate. Then I will assemble all the parts.

Max

[Wez-li 1790]

How did I miss this thread?

Great work as usual max!

[kontemax 1725]

Thank you!

Max

How did I miss this thread?

Great work as usual max!

[kontemax 1725]

Hard work today.

Finally all metal parts are polished. This is the result (bad picture, sorry).

Next step is the polishing of the lower chassis plate that is very big and ruined. I will need many time to do it and I'm not sure about the result.

Max