Local model shops

[Boothy 58]

I am not sure what it is like in the rest of the world but I visited three of my local model shops in the last week as all three stock Tamiya but when I arrive and ask about Tamiya products they seem surprised/bewildered that anyone would want one and they have very few Tamiya kits in stock.

Straight away they start explaining how other brands are cheaper and better and that the kids today do not want Tamiya kits, everything seems to be RTR and to my eyes although the quality looks good all the new stuff looks the same...

Bolton model mart used to be a huge Tamiya stockist, they had a window full of cars and used to have the 80's promo video's on behind the counter, I remember standing looking through that window every time I walked past dreaming of what I could buy next.

Yesterday they had a Hornet and a stadium blitzer and the young chap behind the counter explained to me that nobody would buy a hornet as the RTR LRP was far quicker and handles much better and comes with everything in the box for the same money.

Now I am sure in many respects he is correct but where is the fun in that? I thought model shops were about models and building models, that's where the fun is, and where is the fun in being the quickest and best handling? surely its about the fun you have driving the thing?

My hornet is the most fun model I have, not because its good but because its bad, it bounces every where and struggles like mad to put the power down so driving it quickly is an art, but that for me is why its fun.

So what hope have Tamiya got when the guys selling their stuff seem to want to push you down another track? Maybe its just a sign of the times? People wanting things right now and having to be the quickest and best.

So have the model shops lost sight of what a model is/should be?

Or am I just getting old

Andy

[wood5tock 864]

Unfortunately the harsh reality is that despite the fact that the model shop guys are well into models and have a wealth of knowledge on the subject they are running a business. If they can sell say 5 or even 10 kits made by 'X' as apposed to 1 Tamiya kit then it would make sense to push the other kits.

Lets face it if we were totally honest and logical about it, Tamiya kits, even the "cheap" kits work out expensive once you have also purchased all the accessories to make the thing run. I guess a vast majority of people especially parents in the current economic climate see an all in one kit or a kit coming with more of the accessories needed to run a better proposition.

It would be interesting to see Tamiya sales figures in the following comparisons

1. Tamiya vs other RC kits

2. Tamiya sales to 'New' customers not familiar to Tamiya vs well, us lot

[Boothy 58]

Yes I know exactly what you mean, maybe tamiya are missing a trick as even there latest models do not have the classic looks of the older kits an re re's and tend to be quite similar.

At moment there is a generation of us that want the re re's but where do they go from there?

I would like to see some of the newer kits with a bit more detail... drivers and better stickers of and box art ;-)

Maybe that would bring in a new market of people after more detailed kits?

[wood5tock 864]

Certainly, and at the other end of the spectrum cheaper RTR kits for the next generations

[IBIFTKH 1371]

I think sometimes with this type of discussion our affection for Tamiya maybe skews our perspective. I don't think of Tamiya RC as mass-market, I look at them as more of a niche manufacturer. Yes, they produce a large range and in some areas like tanks and big rigs they are market leaders. But most of the range either has no direct competition or is aimed at enthusiasts like us rather than mainstream buyers. Generally Tamiya kits are not competitive on price or spec, you can nearly always get more for your money.

The nearest analogy I can think of is Harley Davidson. You can get a faster, better handling, more economical bike for less money than anything in the HD range. But people who buy Harleys don't buy them for sensible or prosaic reasons, they buy them because they're Harleys.

It's the same for us. Next time we want a car we could buy a Traxxas, HPI, LRP or whatever - fast, great handling, RTR, cheaper than Tamiya. But it wouldn't be a Tamiya, and that means something to us. As long as there are people like us who value the name, the associations, the experience, the feelings that a Tamiya kit invoke, Tamiya will do just fine.

[Tamiyabigstuff 851]

Kids of today generally can't be bothered to assemble a kit & paint it...way too much bother. They want an RTR R/C that works straight out of the box - instant gratification & sadly it teaches them nothing. Many of the RTR models are no more than throwaway toys - break it and they just get mummy or daddy to buy them another - more profit to a retailer to sell a complete new 'toy' than a parts tree to repair it.

Sad but true

[Quandry 378]

I have seen a similar situation and on reflection what I can see is that Tamiya cars are highly customisable (which I love btw). The problem for the hobby stores though is that they need to stock thousands of lines of parts and upgrades to stay competitive and interesting to new customers after the first sale. Only a few shops will be willing to do this and that's why the likes of Stellar, Tamico, Banzai etc are so popular on here because they stock all of the parts.

[ChrisRx718 4604]

Should have come down to Time Tunnel back in the day, the bloke behind the counter would have recommended a Tamiya to anyone. I know this cos I was the bloke behind the counter.

Unfortunately in today's world of Playstations, Xboxs and nintendos kids just aren't interested in the hobby like you and I. Parents don't like the daunting aspect of buying something which requires 4+ hours of assembly because little Timmy doesn't have the patience and would rather be playing skylanders or Mario. 'Disposable', cheap RTR rc cars currently dominate a lot of the market and they have their place, but there is no interest for the right age group in Tamiya RC except for in small pockets.

Then there's the Tamiya'club' mentality. How many of you buy all of your kits in the UK, supporting the local hobby shops you're so quick to criticise? If it's going to save you 25% you'll buy from Hong Kong or Japan even if it means waiting a week or two and risking import duty.

I'm not saying that this is the source of the problem because this club doesn't account for the whole rc community as a whole, but it's a bit rich to expect a UK-based Tamiya specialist in every major town/city.

By choosing to save a few quid (and I appreciate the difference is usually considerably more) you're not supporting The Hobby Co or it's uk distributors so they can't invest in things like window displays and in store videos.

I'm not trying to point the finger or make anyone feel bad - it takes intelligence to buy from the cheapest source and to really build a decent rc collection, what I am saying is that you can't whole-heatedly blame the demise of Tamiya as a household name on the independent retailer; it's not their fault.

Phew

[zakspeed 188]

Interesting point. I have 2 model shops local to me but I don't enjoy going as its glass counter and ask for what you want, can't browse for example. I'm guilty as the next man in buying abroad but not recently as bought from uk for last few kits online with fusion. Went to radshape recently in brum and was very impressed with set up. Let me browse, showed me kits no pressure. Good experience, now I didn't buy owt but I will next time I'm in area. Won't go to my local ones im afraid as don't like the set up.

[Daves956 157]

I'm starting to see things come back around in my area. There are 4 major hobby stores in the area and they've saturated the market with the RTRs. Now in an effort to compete with each other they've started bringing in Tamiyas. I was in one shop that specializes in crawlers and there was a new section of Tamiya parts and 2 new kits on the shelf. The RTR manufacturers share a business model with the oldest profession and in doing this you can get them anywhere and the price is all about the same. Without something special to attract the customers the stores are seeing the backlash and coming back to Tamiya around here.

[JeepnMike 150]

The local shops will also try to push the other RTR stuff because that is what they sell parts for. They may have a nostalgia Tamiya kit on the shelf which is nice and adds store appeal and shows that they have a diverse selection. Why sell the kit you won't be back to buy parts for though?

[KEV THE REV 2369]

No more decent model shops for Tamiya near me anymore .One of the best shops I've been to in a long time is S.M.C (Sussex Model Centre) in Worthing .It's stacked out with goodies and lots of Tamiya to take away at good prices and a wall full of clearance bits and bobs at crazy knock-down prices- RC heaven

[s howell 28]

My local shop has a selection of tamiya kits and RTR stuff along with other makes, they also stock a selection of parts that a occasionaly usefull. I find ebay is the best for parts although some for "lesser quality" kits are hard to find. My brother in law has what is essentially a maverick scout crawler but with a orange chassis and badged up as a hsp, it runs in 3 wheeld drive and after months of trying to get a replacement driveshaft i found out through here that it is the same as a scout so have been able to order a full set of driveshafts as it looks like there are two different sizes.

This was bought from the local hobby store but they can't get parts for it, at least tamiya have no parts supply problems for currant models.

[Boothy 58]

Should have come down to Time Tunnel back in the day, the bloke behind the counter would have recommended a Tamiya to anyone. I know this cos I was the bloke behind the counter.

Unfortunately in today's world of Playstations, Xboxs and nintendos kids just aren't interested in the hobby like you and I. Parents don't like the daunting aspect of buying something which requires 4+ hours of assembly because little Timmy doesn't have the patience and would rather be playing skylanders or Mario. 'Disposable', cheap RTR rc cars currently dominate a lot of the market and they have their place, but there is no interest for the right age group in Tamiya RC except for in small pockets.

Then there's the Tamiya'club' mentality. How many of you buy all of your kits in the UK, supporting the local hobby shops you're so quick to criticise? If it's going to save you 25% you'll buy from Hong Kong or Japan even if it means waiting a week or two and risking import duty.

I'm not saying that this is the source of the problem because this club doesn't account for the whole rc community as a whole, but it's a bit rich to expect a UK-based Tamiya specialist in every major town/city.

By choosing to save a few quid (and I appreciate the difference is usually considerably more) you're not supporting The Hobby Co or it's uk distributors so they can't invest in things like window displays and in store videos.

I'm not trying to point the finger or make anyone feel bad - it takes intelligence to buy from the cheapest source and to really build a decent rc collection, what I am saying is that you can't whole-heatedly blame the demise of Tamiya as a household name on the independent retailer; it's not their fault.

Phew

All valid points :-) sorry if it seemed I was blaming the local hobby shops, they obviously have a business to run. My point was more about what people seem to want these days thus the hobby shops sending everyone down that route.

I recently bought from time tunnel and got great service and picked up my stadium blitzer from model sport, for the record though my lms wanted £55 more for the blitzer than model sport which is a lot.... If we were talking ten or twenty pounds I would shop locally no doubt but as mentioned above, a lack of nice looking kits to browse, choise and high cost means the tinternet is probably the only way to get tamiya gear at the moment sadly.

[Zac_F83 117]

Kids of today generally can't be bothered to assemble a kit & paint it...way too much bother. They want an RTR R/C that works straight out of the box - instant gratification & sadly it teaches them nothing. Many of the RTR models are no more than throwaway toys - break it and they just get mummy or daddy to buy them another - more profit to a retailer to sell a complete new 'toy' than a parts tree to repair it.

Sad but true

Not true I'm afraid.. they're not throw away toy's at all - closer to the opposite - there is a greater following in class racing going on right now than "hobby/basher/scale" RC'ers

Due to the recent oncoming of class racing the more common HPI, Team Associated, Traxxas vehicles carry a bigger following for more parts, stronger parts, oil shocks standard, all steel metal geared transmissions, and such..

Traxxas has the open and spec 2WD and 4WD Slash classes

Team Associated has the newly released RE-RE RC10 class plus their B4.1 pretty much dominates 2WD open buggy classes.

Then there is USVTA class racing that TA's TC4 dominates..

I am like most on here partial to Tamiya due to getting to build the vehicle and learn how it works and tuning it for better than a RTR kit's performance - It's safe to say I'm likely the only guy in my state that is going to run a TRF201 in open class 2WD buggy racing this summer..

I'm also going to join a small club that does VTA racing and will be the only one once again running a Tamiya (standard TA-05)

My LHS that I get parts from actually has most Tamiya kits instock and has more Tamiya kits on their wall than anything else.. BUT that same shop has a small shelf end cap of about 24" W x 12" T of Tamiya parts

A new shop that opened up locally has a 20ft wall of RC stuff and guess what 90% of it is Traxxas.. 0% of it is Tamiya..

The other reason Tamiya doesn't have the "racers" following is cause in the USA anyway you need deep pockets for a "TRF race edition" Tamiya chassis

Tamiya needs to cattier to those that want a racer out-of- the-box for cheaper, they will not survive on the vintage RE-RE's or they might by doing what they're doing (small runs and discontinuing them after 1 year production)- the TA-05 standard chassis needs to make a comeback as it is a GREAT chassis - MUCH nicer than that of the TT01/TT02

Ya they have the entry level covered but 90% of us can't leave well enough alone.. so we look to upgrade and oh no the worthwhile hops they released are discontinued and harder to find than the kit's themselves

Modern RTR kit standard feature's that should be offered as standard on some Tamiya kits (as an upgraded kit)-

oil filled shocks w/ complete tuning parts

adjustable suspensions (toe/camber/caster/shock placement)

fully adjustable METAL motor mounts

full metal gears/gear transmissions (for brushless ready)

common pinion/ spur gear pitch's (32p/48p/64p)

slipper clutches

metal "dog bone" or universal joint drive shafts

So far I've only seen 95% of these in discontinued kits (the reason I bought a TA-05 and not a TRF or TT01/02)

cheaper/ more readily available upgrades would be nicer as well (TRF shock sets are $100 vs. others' at $20-75... and are of the same quality)

[speedy_w_beans 4277]

My local hobby shop is very diversified and serves some key customer groups.

1) Aircraft modelers. We have a local flying field with a local club, so for anyone who enjoys airplanes, helicopters, and multi-rotors, the shop stocks all the building supplies and a range of kits to keep these customers happy. Tamiya has no presence in this product category.

2) Surface vehicle racers. The shop leases space in a small strip mall, and they have an agreement with the landlord they can use the adjacent field for their own outdoor offroad track. I think this is one of those informal agreements where money doesn't change hands. They also have a concrete oval speedway a half mile away. The shop stocks a full range of Associated, Losi, Kyosho, Mugen, etc. kits for anyone who wants to race buggy, stadium truck, short course, dirt oval, concrete oval, etc. There is virtually no demand for racing-grade Tamiya RC because either Tamiya doesn't make it (short course), Tamiya is abandoning it (TRF801X/XT), there's no local class for it (TRF501X, TRF502X, TRF511X, TRF417/418), or the other brands have more communal and online setup knowledge supporting them (TRF201). You also have to look at the cost of a Tamiya TRF kit versus the other brands, and generally the other brands cost less. If you look at the local shop's parts wall, it's a lot of parts supporting the kits they sell, and the kits they sell are the result of local fast guys winning and showing what can be done with other brands. There are no evangelists or fast guys running Tamiya in the local racing scene. The local popular classes include 1/8 buggy (Associated/Kyosho/Mugen/OFNA), short course (Associated/Kyosho/Losi), some 1/10 buggy (Associated, Kyosho, Losi, Durango) and some oval (Associated, Custom Works). There are a few other tracks within 100 miles that have onroad; you'll likely find Associated, Xray, and some 3Racing/Spec R depending on the class. Tamiya has to make competitive product that fits the racing classes, and they have to break the catch-22 of market acceptance by sponsoring more local drivers.

3) Casual hobbyists/newbies. I witnessed a small family the day after Christmas in the local hobby shop, and they were looking for fast, durable, and instant gratification. They ended up with a Traxxas Stampede for about $200. From an outsider's perspective, a hobby shop is an overwhelming place with a wall of parts, shelves of kits, racks of bodies and paint, etc. There are plenty of best practices related to RC, and for someone with no prior knowledge it looks like a serious learning curve. Buying something complete and ready to run makes it seem easy. At least they only have to worry about the things that break as they do. Plus, they don't know if this will be a lasting interest or a passing fad. Does Tamiya's XB line, with its ABS plastics, bushings, friction dampers, fixed suspension arms, 27 MHz radios, brushed ESCs and silver can motors compete with Traxxas' line with nylon plastics, bearings, oil dampers, 2.4 GHz radios, Velineon brushless systems, etc.? What does Tamiya say in their advertising about their XB products? "Models suitable for radio control" may be true, but not very exciting. Traxxas makes some bold claims about being the fastest in radio control. They use color schemes, type fonts, wording, big 45+ MPH lettering, relationships in motorsports, physical presence at events, etc. to create some excitement about their products. What is Tamiya doing to promote their products, and are they making competitive RTRs? How do they compare to Vaterra, Helion, and ECX?

4) Static modelers. The hobby shop does stock a fair number of Tamiya static models with other brands. They carry a full line of paints from Tamiya and Testors. I almost never see anyone buying a static model kit.

5) Scale railroad modelers. There's a decent section of the store set aside for complete train sets, individual parts, scenery, etc. Tamiya has no presence in model railroading.

My advice to Tamiya:

- Stay in tune with the racing scene and make kits that are competitive in performance and cost compared to other brands in this space. Spend some advertising budget on sponsoring the club-level fast guys with kits and parts. Work with the distributors and retailers to improve the parts support -- on the local hobby shops' walls of parts there should be a section for Tamiya parts so people can readily see this brand exists. Iterate on designs yearly; Associated and XRay are constantly refreshing their racing offerings.

- Benchmark the other brands' RTR offerings and revamp the product line to meet or exceed the performance and value of these products. Establish operations in a Forex-based economy so the currency fluctuations between the dollar and yen aren't a significant factor anymore. Pump up the advertising and be physically present at critical events to promote the product.

- For "models suitable for radio control," dump the ESC and silver can motor. Make bearings and oil dampers standard. Redouble your efforts to design detail into body shells -- some of the latest shells are starting to look like HPI's body shells. Provide the mirrors, LED buckets, tail pipes, windshield wipers, and other fine details that really make a shell look realistic. Focus on details and mechanisms; dump the electronics; market these kits adjacent to the static model kits.

- Explore new markets and work on new innovations. The existing markets are core, but continue to diversify. Create something new with a purpose.

I know I may sound a little harsh, but I like Tamiya as a brand and would like to see them succeed long-term around the world. They can do it if they consider the needs of the end consumer, retailer, and distributor and adjust their products and practices accordingly.

[Stoat Muldoon 19]

I think that the point of the 'kids getting RTRs from parents etc' aspect to this debate needs a little refining.

It is true that there are a large number of young people who, one way or another, find out about the hobby and make a purchase with minimal research, having seen videos on YouTube (More on this sub-point later)of brushless+LiPo powered Hpi Savages and Traxxas Slashes. That's they want; A toy car that will do as in the videos.

But then, way back in the eighties, There was no YouTube. There was no Internet. People would find out about the hobbies through friends or elations, or seen the cars in action in front of them. People would do things properly, they'd do the research, work out what they needed and go to the shop; ask the man behind the counter, look at different kits and so forth. And they'd buy something, or get it for Chistmas etcetera. They'd be overjoyed and then spend hours build it, with or without help.

Since the invention and more importantly popularization of the internet, information became easier to share. More people found out about the hobby, and more people did what was describe two paragraphs above this one. These people are largely auxiliary to the hobby, they are added, they have not replaced the 'original' type of customer even though they may vastly outnumber them. But the people who find out 'the proper way' are still popping up. In fact, I'd go as far as saying there's more of them, since those of you who lived through the 80s and were part of the RC scene may have have grown up and had children who you've introduced to the hobby the same way you were as children.

Hobby shops have done the only thing they could do to heighten their profits; start catering for the more frequent customer. From a buisness standpoint, they ought to ignore those of us who want the full Tamiya kit experience because far more people want RTRs.

Sorry if that was all waffle, having difficultly finding a good way to word my points.

[Tamiya1/10 382]

Your typical hobby shop will sell what most of the customers want, unless is a highly specialized hobby shop where is will cater to special interest group and likely the shop owner is one himself.

I for one has more off road RC than just road cars. Off road rc can run on grass, gravel, sand, paved area whereas road cars are straightly for the road, limited play value than off road, hence I am not surprise other brands are doing better than Tamiya is this area and as other TC member mentioned TRF version road cars aren't cheap and my better serve markets, like asia, where track is the more readily availabe for RC run than at beaches or in green belt where is regulated or non existing at all. You notice most road races are held mostly in Asia?

[Shodog 1842]

All great responses above. Tamiya is almost nonexistent in hobby shops in my area. It's mostly Traxxas and Vaterra products.

I don't think catering to the racer is all that successful as that is just a small portion if the RC population.

Tamiya needs to advertise during cartoons.

[mtbkym01 4154]

What's not being considered here is the local markets, Tamiya is a Japanese company, that primarily serves its own market. Visiting hobby stores in Japan shows how big their presence is there, and not surprisingly, not a Traxxas in sight.

[AndyjcClod 389]

I have seen this first hand, I went into a model shop in Cannock a few years ago with £300 to buy a new model and the guys in the store were really pushing the likes of Traxxas and other makes that I had not even heard of mainly for the point that they were RTR. The guys who were young seemed suprised when I selected a Tamiya model and said half the fun is building and painting it!

Its a shame because as Reilluor says its a really hard market now days as some people will just see £100 for this all working or £100+ extras for something I have to build.

A few years ago my nephews wanted an RC for Christmas and thier dad was going to get them a RTR one with everything included but I managed to talk him out of it by explaining replacement part availability and the fact that he couldn't be bothered to build one (I believe it was more of a fear of how do I do it than a don't have the time) etc.

So me been nice bought two of the Rising Fighters from Time Tunnel the plan was that it would be a me and nephew time to enjoy building them together but my nephews but they werent bothered so it ended up me building the cars myself and they playing the Xbox! Occasionally visiting to see how far I was on the building process.

Once the cars were built they loved them but they only tend to play with them when they come to mine and I believe that is because I take the time to take them out with them and we have a lot of fun. When they are at thier parents I think its easier to sit them infront of the xbox, ps or nintendo than take them to the park and charge the batteries etc.

[Raman36 1700]

To operate a brick and mortar hobby shop in this day an age takes major commitment. It is not by any means a profitable venture. Here in the states the survival formula for the LHS is as follows:

1. Must have a competitive on line business

2. Must have a race track on their facility, or sponsor races at a local track

This is how Amainhobbies, Speedtechhobbies and TQRCracing thrive and stay in business.

Prior to visiting TQRCracing site you will think its a huge warehouse, they offer every brand you can think of. Then when you visit their facility, you start to wonder where’s the store, because 90% of the facility is the indoor track and workshop area. The actual hobby store is a tiny room and there is a guy behind the counter that does everything. Its by no means elegant but it works.

It is sad for those of us that are old enough to have visited a local hobby store and been awe inspired by the showcase displays. However those show case displays started to look dingy 25 years ago. So in my view, the local hobby store fired the first shot. With that said, I don’t blame them, it is very costly to have deep inventories of various products and replacement parts.

The following can be said of most retail store, whether they are hobby stores, cycling stores etc. They sell what they have in stock! If you ask for brand X and they don’t carry brand X, they will try to sell you brand Y and opine why its better. A few years back I recall asking for a Novak ESC and the guy behind the counter told me that Castle Creations is the way to go and Novak was done for because they shot themselves in the foot by choosing sensored base systems. I’d like to find that kid and ask him why Castle now offers sensored 1/10 scale systems as well. So needless to say, its not just Tamiya that gets the bad sales pitch at the LHS. Even Futaba gets pushed aside by Spectrum pushers.

This may work on some consumers but I am one that knows what he wants. Only a handful are intelligent enough to say, “I’m sorry I don’t have it, but I can get it for you.” That hobby store earns my business, because they showed that they are willing to take an extra step to develop me as a client.

Here in the states, I have noticed Tamiya slowly making a come back. At the track I race locally, majority of the cars are Tamiyas, followed by Associated, X-Ray and HPI. I have also noticed peoples attitudes change towards Tamiya. On RCtech, you would be laughed at 5 years ago. You no longer need to buy a TRF car to be competitive, the TA and TB series cars are very competitive as well.

As Speedy said, where Tamiya is weak is in the off road section. The greatest success they have had is with the TRF201. In the 4WD world they started strong with the TRF501/502 and seemed to have faded away with the 511. The TRF801 died the minute Ryan Lutz left the TRF team. Outside of the Japanese market, the non pro buggies, only has a following with us Tamiyafiles. I have noticed that in the UK you do have meets with the older buggies.. that is something that needs to be promoted here in the states as well. TamiyaUSA should take this on but it doesnt look like they are willing to take the initiative. So I think it is up to us to make an SRB, ORV, FAV/WO event and see if they take notice.

[WillyChang 1816]

RTRs give buyers what they want... Instantly.

Like it or not, back in the 70s/80s/90s many ppl especially newcomers didn't want to build their kits

and would happily pay either the shop &/or shopworkers after hours to build it for them.

IMHO shops have lost a fair bit of income by selling RTRs, but they also don't have to deal with

customers bringing back half/wrongly built kits to troubleshoot... big timewaster here.