The Tumbling Bull!

[mongoose1983]

I'm loving the new Tumbling Bull. I'm sure sooner or later TCers will be using some Wild Willy driver figure on this one. Willy will give make it look like a lawn tractor.

[Tamiya1/10]

Sorry folks, i hate to be the pouring cold water on a "hot" model...god forbid.

you guys really think the tumbling bull is really that good. would you guys consider it if it was released by a company call Fung Wai from China? I just realize this hobby is not a sickness but we are under the Tamiya spell like the movie Shallow Hal, where Tony Robbert? put Hal in a spell or suggestion where the 1st women he sees is the best looking woman in the world....you guys know what i am getting at? Sure i can't argue beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me is like the old American cars by the big 3 ....slap on a new body and is a new model and the consumer will buy. i just look at the other makes like Axial or Veterra and look at bull...thanks but no thanks. Either my taste has changed and Tamiya is following its policy or vise versa, i just can pull the trigger on the bull regardless how cheap or good buy it is.

Having said all that, some TC member may do something to the bull and i could change my mind.

There, i cover all angels just in case later i have to eat my words.:-D

[taffer]

Sorry folks, i hate to be the pouring cold water on a "hot" model...god forbid.

you guys really think the tumbling bull is really that good. would you guys consider it if it was released by a company call Fung Wai from China? I just realize this hobby is not a sickness but we are under the Tamiya spell like the movie Shallow Hal, where Tony Robbert? put Hal in a spell or suggestion where the 1st women he sees is the best looking woman in the world....you guys know what i am getting at? Sure i can't argue beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me is like the old American cars by the big 3 ....slap on a new body and is a new model and the consumer will buy. i just look at the other makes like Axial or Veterra and look at bull...thanks but no thanks. Either my taste has changed and Tamiya is following its policy or vise versa, i just can pull the trigger on the bull regardless how cheap or good buy it is.

Having said all that, some TC member may do something to the bull and i could change my mind.

There, i cover all angels just in case later i have to eat my words.:-D

Hi, i do not think the wr02 models are particularly good looking, high performance, original design or even forward thinking on tamiya's part.

What brand loyalty means to me in regards to these and other models I buy from tamiya is familiarity, knowing the product i have chosen to buy is still in a lot of ways a 'comfortable' base to work from, normally great presentation, straightforward builds, some crazy idea's and when running becomes more fun when there's more people involved.

Some of the above could be said of all brands, but tamiya really is a 'complete enjoyment experience' for me which I cant get from others, having the support and conversation of tamiyaclub further enhances that.

[WillyChang]

saw the Bull in real life today, next to FarmKing.

Yech, I'll pass.

[taffer]

saw the Bull in real life today, next to FarmKing.

Yech, I'll pass.

For anyone reading, even if you can't stand these tractors, don't overlook the chassis (or even GF01), hopefully you like one of the other bodies because they are fun! ;-)

[Grastens]

Sorry folks, i hate to be the pouring cold water on a "hot" model...god forbid.

you guys really think the tumbling bull is really that good. would you guys consider it if it was released by a company call Fung Wai from China? I just realize this hobby is not a sickness but we are under the Tamiya spell like the movie Shallow Hal, where Tony Robbert? put Hal in a spell or suggestion where the 1st women he sees is the best looking woman in the world....you guys know what i am getting at? Sure i can't argue beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me is like the old American cars by the big 3 ....slap on a new body and is a new model and the consumer will buy. i just look at the other makes like Axial or Veterra and look at bull...thanks but no thanks. Either my taste has changed and Tamiya is following its policy or vise versa, i just can pull the trigger on the bull regardless how cheap or good buy it is.

Having said all that, some TC member may do something to the bull and i could change my mind.

There, i cover all angels just in case later i have to eat my words.:-D

... That would be a little more than just 'pouring cold water' on these releases (not to mention a few users of this forum), but your opinion is yours and free to share. Personally, I would be giving Fung Wai a look if I saw the body was actually well-detailed.

[mongoose1983]

Sorry folks, i hate to be the pouring cold water on a "hot" model...god forbid.

you guys really think the tumbling bull is really that good. would you guys consider it if it was released by a company call Fung Wai from China? I just realize this hobby is not a sickness but we are under the Tamiya spell like the movie Shallow Hal, where Tony Robbert? put Hal in a spell or suggestion where the 1st women he sees is the best looking woman in the world....you guys know what i am getting at? Sure i can't argue beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. To me is like the old American cars by the big 3 ....slap on a new body and is a new model and the consumer will buy. i just look at the other makes like Axial or Veterra and look at bull...thanks but no thanks. Either my taste has changed and Tamiya is following its policy or vise versa, i just can pull the trigger on the bull regardless how cheap or good buy it is.

Having said all that, some TC member may do something to the bull and i could change my mind.

There, i cover all angels just in case later i have to eat my words.:-D

I think I can get your point, and I can say I partially agree with you on this one. I like the classic Tamiya models as they were "suitable for radio-control", highly realistic, and such, but models like the Tumbling Bull just go back to their 30-years tradition of cartoonish vehicles, like the Wild Willy Jeep. I am building myself a custom tractor more on the scale fashion, but I can still appreciate this cartoonish vehicle. Now, if we would start talking about what Tamiya should have made, I believe they should have started been making tractors DECADES ago. You guys don't see that if it wasn't for tractors there would be no food. There are companies like ERTL that has been making scale tractors for decades with lots of success, and they have a large following worldwide. The guys from Tamiya would have made even better scale models than ERTL, but you see, this company has lost a lot of its charm, and you really don't see much effort from them on the new products.

Yes, there is something like a Tamiya spell.

Now I gotta go and resume my Bruiser restoration work...

[Percymon]

If a young kid walked into a hobby shop with £120 in his pocket, I doubt the Tumbling Bull would be his choice - it will always appeal to those who have experienced Tamiya before and want something a bit different. It's easy to ask why Tamiya are doing these models, but when you consider Short Course is slowly dying its no bad thing to be doing this (and I suspect they are mad for them in Japan) than being late to the SC party.

[Sayer]

... That would be a little more than just 'pouring cold water' on these releases (not to mention a few users of this forum), but your opinion is yours and free to share. Personally, I would be giving Fung Wai a look if I saw the body was actually well-detailed.

I've gotta agree with him though. I saw plenty more of it in the Vajra threads, but there are a definite subset of enthusiasts, who will buy whatever wrong-headed monstrosity Tamiya decides to churn out, for whatever price they decide to charge - all so long as it has a Tamiya badge.

Worse (and this is the one that makes blood squirt out of my ear) are the defenses of bad design or poor market research, that basically amount to "Tamiya is a Japanese company, so they care more about Japan than you" as though that were at all placating - or motivation to keep giving them money rather than going elsewhere.

[bromvw]

Some interesting and equally valid points here . Yes in some way's I do feel that Tamiya have lost their way in term's of recent body designs . There seems to be a lack of what made Tamiya great - Detail . The appeal to me of Tamiya RC was the very high quality realistic body's . Even comic offerings like the Wild Willy where full of nice scale details .

Recently , dare I say it , Tamiya's design studio has become Lazy . The new chassis designs are impressive but little thought has being put into the new body's IMO .

Their just generic Trucks - think Landfreeder or generic Tractors . Or they stick a body on any old chassis - even if it don't fit and they have to hack holes in the shell - Sand Rover .

I've said it before and i'll say it again . Its time Tamiya lifted its game . If they want to compete in the modern RC market they have to go back to their roots and produce highly detailed models ' suitable for radio control ' while at the same time incorporating the modern advances in battery and electronics tech .

Otherwise they are in danger of becoming just another RC company - but with dated products that many see as fragile Toys - rather than high quality scale RC models . More and more the market looks to be moving to RTR . Tamiya have a unique product but unless they innovate they are in danger of being left behind in the modern world .

[XV Pilot]

Valid points perhaps, but I'm still buying meself a Tumbling Bull come payday! For all its cartoonish looks, it should be a good contender in the wheelie races that are becoming more popular, as it is probably the lightest, most streamlined, lowest CoG Tamiya shell available for any of the wheelie chassis at the moment. Plus, the bigger rear wheels give taller gearing, which both calms the wheelies and gives a higher top end, both good for racing. My Farm King is an enjoyable, surprisingly stable runner with a good turn of speed. The Tumbling Bull should be even better still.

[qatmix]

Personally the tumbling bull and Farm King are the very reason I like Tamiya as a brand. My lad doesn't care about brands but as soon as he noticed the Tumbing bull on a website he has been saving to buy one.

It's a tractor that does wheelies!!! What's the issue with that?

As to tamiya being lazy, they have launched more new chassis than any other manufacturer in the last 3 years

TT02 (entry level onroad / drift / rally),

XV01 (advanced onroad / drift / rally)

dt03 (2wd entry level offroad)

TT02B (4wd entry level buggy)

TRF101 (F1) ,

RM01 (1/12 onroad)

TRF 503 (4wd advanced)

GF01 (4wd stunt buggy)

TRF417 / 418 (world champion competition 4wd TC)

TA06 (4wd club level TC)

M05 / 06 (2wd onroad chassis)

TXT2 (4wD monster truck)

As to shells, there are lots of fantastic shells such as the Ferrari 458 / la Ferrari / Capri (lush) etc

The one area they haven't released a new chassis is for a scaler, Instead they have released a few CC01 hop ups to make it more capable. It might not be the most capable scale chassis, but its pretty good and mine can get as muddy as my mates axial

[IBIFTKH]

Some good points raised in the posts above. It would be nice to see a new scale 4x4 chassis and bodies especially. I think they have taken the easy route with mixing and matching bodies and chassis types but you could also call it clever marketing. Depends on your point of view I suppose.

But I think Tamiya are being quite smart with the tractors, the Farm King is more cartoonish and the Bull is more scale-looking - both bases covered. They seem to have put quite a lot of effort into the WR-02 recently: four new bodies and lots of option and hop-up parts. Then to top that we get the GF-01 with another new body. It seems Tamiya are making a considerable investment in the 'fun' segment of the market.

And fun is definitely a big part of Tamiya RC history. The original Wild Willy was pretty much revolutionary. The Lunchbox and Midnight Pumpkin have been hugely popular. Lots of other favourites like the Monster Beetle and the mighty Clodbuster carried on the tradition.

'Scale models suitable for radio control' is a great ethos but I think Mr T likes to have a chuckle too.

[Grastens]

I've gotta agree with him though. I saw plenty more of it in the Vajra threads, but there are a definite subset of enthusiasts, who will buy whatever wrong-headed monstrosity Tamiya decides to churn out, for whatever price they decide to charge - all so long as it has a Tamiya badge.

Worse (and this is the one that makes blood squirt out of my ear) are the defenses of bad design or poor market research, that basically amount to "Tamiya is a Japanese company, so they care more about Japan than you" as though that were at all placating - or motivation to keep giving them money rather than going elsewhere.

Reading it again, that makes sense - but it still felt like a bit of an insult to people who actually like the brand. I mean, I would not buy just any or every Tamiya RC model, but there are enough of them that I like for me to look to them first for a radio-controlled car.

... And I watched 'Shallow Hal,' too!

Agreed on the point about blaming the nuances of the Japanese market, though.

[BradG]

Some interesting and equally valid points here . Yes in some way's I do feel that Tamiya have lost their way in term's of recent body designs . There seems to be a lack of what made Tamiya great - Detail . The appeal to me of Tamiya RC was the very high quality realistic body's . Even comic offerings like the Wild Willy where full of nice scale details .

Recently , dare I say it , Tamiya's design studio has become Lazy . The new chassis designs are impressive but little thought has being put into the new body's IMO .

Their just generic Trucks - think Landfreeder or generic Tractors . Or they stick a body on any old chassis - even if it don't fit and they have to hack holes in the shell - Sand Rover .

I've said it before and i'll say it again . Its time Tamiya lifted its game . If they want to compete in the modern RC market they have to go back to their roots and produce highly detailed models ' suitable for radio control ' while at the same time incorporating the modern advances in battery and electronics tech .

Otherwise they are in danger of becoming just another RC company - but with dated products that many see as fragile Toys - rather than high quality scale RC models . More and more the market looks to be moving to RTR . Tamiya have a unique product but unless they innovate they are in danger of being left behind in the modern world .

I agree 100%. Tamiya is making more RTR to try to keep up with the mostly younger crowd but building a kit in my opinion is sometimes better than driving them. With that being said, I do feel Tamiya needs to go back to their roots, but also stay current with technology. For instance, maybe start releasing kits with a brushless motor and ESC included. I'm sure there are a ton of guys on here that have silver can 540's and Tamiya ESC's coming out their ears because they are swopping them out for brushless in every single build they do.

[WillyChang]

new kits are getting TBLE02 brushless ESCs bud

[Sayer]

new kits are getting TBLE02 brushless ESCs bud

When are they getting bearings as standard like almost everyone else?

[mongoose1983]

I rather have the new kits without ESCs and bearings, otherwise I'm sure Tamiya would make a sensible price raise for their new kits. You can always get ESCs and bearings cheaper later, or even spend big in the best possible ones for your cars!

[JennyMo]

For anyone reading, even if you can't stand these tractors, don't overlook the chassis (or even GF01), hopefully you like one of the other bodies because they are fun! ;-)

With a capital F!

I hated the [idea of the] WR-02 chassis until I drove one - now it is my favorite of them all!

There will be another one along in a short while I'm sure!

Jx

[JennyMo]

When are they getting bearings as standard like almost everyone else?

That I do agree with... motors and ESCs I can understand leaving up to the owner to decide (they may not even want to fit them if it's only going to be a shelfer), but rotating bits really ought to have proper bearings!

Jx

[XV Pilot]

Personally I don't mind the lack of bearings in the kit. Depending on my intended use for a given chassis, I fit it with either metal-shielded, rubber-sealed or a combination of the two. Rather than leaving it up to Tamiya to guess what I want to do with a chassis (possibly getting it wrong and supplying the wrong kind of bearings), I am quite fine with sourcing my own.

[WillyChang]

yeah same... spent some quiet time tonite making custom bearing sets for GF01 & CC01

tamiya plastic RCs are so cheap out of Japan it'll be a shame to jack up price if BBs were std.

As-is its good when buying kits for non-building purpose eg spareparts or project donors

Recently noticed T selling bags of steelshield 1150 in 16qty for reasonable (ie nearly as cheap as china yumcha) $$.

But no doubt these would be their current stock of bearings, which don't seem as good grade as before.

I just wish they'd also continue selling their excellent blue rubber shields, those were great quality.

[JennyMo]

Fair point fellas - I guess if it's going to sit on a shelf then it doesn't really need bearings either - and it's not as if a set are particularly expensive anyway...

And as you say, keeping the kit prices as low as possible helps if you are buying them for specific and/or hard to find separately parts - certainly it is almost worth buying a complete kit when you price up all the individual body sections of some of the models!

Jx

[Sayer]

Fair point fellas - I guess if it's going to sit on a shelf then it doesn't really need bearings either - and it's not as if a set are particularly expensive anyway...

And as you say, keeping the kit prices as low as possible helps if you are buying them for specific and/or hard to find separately parts - certainly it is almost worth buying a complete kit when you price up all the individual body sections of some of the models!

Jx

Maybe I'm stubborn (of course I am) but I don't see this as a good enough argument to justify lack of bearings in kits. First of all Tamiya kits aren't particularly cheap. Secondly, if they were including bearings as standard in all their kits, they'd be procuring them in such vast bulk quantities that the price of individual kits wouldn't (need to) increase in any noticeable way. Everyone who likes to source their own bearings would still be fine, since it'd be the same effort swapping out plastic bushings anyway - and they'd get a bunch of spare bearings out of the deal as well.

[WillyChang]

Plastic RC kit is like price of a nice dinner in Japan.

Not like overseas where you'd feed a family for cost of a kit

And given that T probably molds their own 1150 plastic bushings inhouse,

doubt there'll be anything cheaper than that

Plus there'll be lost revenue/profits from OptionPart sales of bearing set

so a savvy beancounter would want to jack up kit price to cover opportunity cost.