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Super Champ re-release - Fighting Buggy

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@TamTom For the record, I didn't call it cr$&. All I said was if Tamiya had looked at its completion, eg Kyosho Scorpion, they would have realised the issue was suspension geometry. The most advanced suspension layout in 1984? I believe the most over engineered / novel suspension layout is more precise. The FS doesn't change geometry, it changed dampening. Majority of us in this thread own an SRB or SC and run them quite often. The bouncy suspension of the SRB has more to due with the torsion bars. Which is why most bypassed it with coil overs dampers on each side. Some even managed to install larger capacity dampers by creating new mounts. Rear cage may had a different purpose, but to attach it via a tie rod versus the pipe joint that it's predecessors had is a step backwards. Case and point, re-re uses a pipe joint to attach rear cage. By the way, to those who have not tried out the RCchannel multilink set up for SRB, it's a worthwhile upgrade for runners, drastically improves corner speed.

But you were complaining that the old suspension system is not good enough if I am not mistaken. Show me another 2WD Buggy of Tamiya at that time that had a better suspension. All the SRB's had terrible suspension and Tamiya did best what they could do at that time. So why should Tamiya re-release a model with all new technology? It would be a re-release no more but a new model. Did anybody complain when Tamyia did re-re the Grasshopper, the Hornet, the Frog, the Brat, the Hotshot? All of them had terrible suspension and many weak points. No. Why should we complain? Any complains from Tamiya collectors would be not fair at all. If I want a buggy with modern setup, I would go and buy a new modern buggy with no charme, no character and with no fault in its technology.

The SRB's are bounce because of stiff torsion bar and because eacht time the shock hit the shock housing because there is damping in it. The uptravel is like zero we must agree. The SC suspension did a much better improvement for that time suspension technology Tamiya had. Of corse you can improve suspension by using larger dampers but that cost lot of the super scale look of these buggies. That was probably most focus of Tamiya. Scale look. Otherweise Tamiya would have ussed ugly lexane bodies like Kyosho and all other Manufacturer used at that time. We must thank Tamiya that they kept their own way. I have owned many original Super Champs and Rough Riders and ran them all. I am collecting the old Tamiya cars since more than 20 years now and ran almost everything vintage from Tamiya. Still I have two Super Champs which are for display only. And I really never found it worth to complain about anything they made. I am very happy Tamiya still keep the vintage line straight and just improve minor parts where hardly noticeable. And I am sure I will buy me a re-re Super Champ and take the not so perfect suspension as it is and love the way it rides. Like a vintage buggy as it is.

Cheers

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You are mistaken and confused about my statement and opinion. You seem to also be taking my opinion personally.

The Super Champ came after the Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider, it's a fact that I'm sure we can agree on.

The FS suspension that Tamiya came up with, doesn't address the main issue which was suspension geometry. It only addressed the bouncy suspension of the Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider which could have easily been addressed with upgraded coil overs. So in my opinion it is not a real improvement. Nonetheless it does not mean I don't like the Super Champ.

Now:

1. I made no mention that Tamiya should update the re-release with modern technology.

I said that if anyone has not tried the RCChannel suspension, it's a worthwhile update for a runner, which improves the handling. I didn't say Tamiya should have done this to the re-re super champ

2. The ORV: you don't even want to hear my opinion of that chassis

3. Grasshopper and Hornet, I actually like a lot for the purpose they serve.

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Both RCH and CRP made monoshock systems for the SRB's before the Super Champ. These were mounted on their special cages, in front of the gear box, and used a Kyosho 1/8 shock. BTW if someone have one of these sets, new or used, I'm interrested!

crp_112.jpg

What is less known is that Norwegian (!) manufacturer S. Andreassen also made a monoshock solution, very similar to the Super Champ, but to fit on Sand Scorcher etc. Never seen one of these, other than in this ad from early 1983.

crp_111.jpg

There were other solutions as well, like this "Rocking Shock" (that's the name of it). Never seen one of these in real life either, and don't know who made it, but it used the 1/8 Kyosho shocks....

crp_110.jpg

I guess we can say that racing drivers back then experimented a lot, but did a lot more "rough" experimenting. Something worked well, and other things not so well. Today its more like millimeter precision with setup equipment to measure everything from droop to camber, caster and everything, as there is more or less concensus as to what works best. I liked it more when it was "rough", and bright ideas were set in to life. That's just my opinion.

I wish you luck in finding one, as you know not any easy part to find.

I searched forever, seen a couple that had sold on evilpay, finally found mine attached to a buggy, have thought about seeing if I can get some made off of it, don't know if it would be worth it.

It's a neat setup, of course would also have to find an appropriate shock, Parma made a nice looking shock back then too, have heard they are leakers though.

Have a few of them, need to see if or how bad they leak a ;0

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But you were complaining that the old suspension system is not good enough if I am not mistaken. Show me another 2WD Buggy of Tamiya at that time that had a better suspension. All the SRB's had terrible suspension and Tamiya did best what they could do at that time. So why should Tamiya re-release a model with all new technology? It would be a re-release no more but a new model. Did anybody complain when Tamyia did re-re the Grasshopper, the Hornet, the Frog, the Brat, the Hotshot? All of them had terrible suspension and many weak points. No. Why should we complain? Any complains from Tamiya collectors would be not fair at all. If I want a buggy with modern setup, I would go and buy a new modern buggy with no charme, no character and with no fault in its technology.

The SRB's are bounce because of stiff torsion bar and because eacht time the shock hit the shock housing because there is damping in it. The uptravel is like zero we must agree. The SC suspension did a much better improvement for that time suspension technology Tamiya had. Of corse you can improve suspension by using larger dampers but that cost lot of the super scale look of these buggies. That was probably most focus of Tamiya. Scale look. Otherweise Tamiya would have ussed ugly lexane bodies like Kyosho and all other Manufacturer used at that time. We must thank Tamiya that they kept their own way. I have owned many original Super Champs and Rough Riders and ran them all. I am collecting the old Tamiya cars since more than 20 years now and ran almost everything vintage from Tamiya. Still I have two Super Champs which are for display only. And I really never found it worth to complain about anything they made. I am very happy Tamiya still keep the vintage line straight and just improve minor parts where hardly noticeable. And I am sure I will buy me a re-re Super Champ and take the not so perfect suspension as it is and love the way it rides. Like a vintage buggy as it is.

Cheers

You know they redesigned the rear suspension on the re-re right?

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Looks good and happy re re RC days for those that gotten back into the hobby 3 - 4 years ago. Have it in my cross hair and still have time to decide to pull the trigger or not when it comes out.

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You know they redesigned the rear suspension on the re-re right?

Sure, but just a Little. As they did with all re-re Models. Just gently redesigning.

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The movement on this one seems to have happened really quickly. Announced a month ago, followed by detailed photos soon after and now we have the manual.

Is it true that it is being released on October 1st too?

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The movement on this one seems to have happened really quickly. Announced a month ago, followed by detailed photos soon after and now we have the manual.

Is it true that it is being released on October 1st too?

From what I see currently, Yes

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I see from page 16 that the MINT 400 decal has indeed disappeared, replaced with "Fighting Buggy".

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The idler gear is the same part number (19808280) as the Buggy Champ, which means it will be plastic like the other SRBs. Rear UJs are the same part number as Buggy Champ, which means they will be silver metal.

Not really trying to be negative, but I am disappointed that many of the features that made the Super Champ unique compared to the regular SRBs weren't carried over in the re-re:

- No brass idler gear

- No hardened (green) steel front arm shafts.

- No hardened (green) steel rear universal joints.

Kind of makes it just a modified SRB rather than "race strengthened" hop-up parts which is what made the Super Champ a unique chassis.

I do like the new rear spring arm design with travel limiting designed into the arm instead of using plastic zip ties connected to the rear FS plate. They (zip ties) always broke.

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The rear damper is reminiscent of a TRF shock with all of the o-rings and overall design mechanics. Certainly a lot more sophisticated than the original.

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I'd love to know the reasoning behind the extra long oil tube wrapping around the back of the bottle. Any ideas? Does it somehow reduce pressure due to gravity thereby reducing leak potential?

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Happy to find another car in which I can use the $$$ Tamiya LF Battery LF1100-6.6V Racing Pack (M-Size)! :)

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I'd love to know the reasoning behind the extra long oil tube wrapping around the back of the bottle.   Any ideas?  Does it somehow reduce pressure due to gravity thereby reducing leak potential?

Maybe they guy who assembled the prototype felt it would be cool to have a long one

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Thanks JAnderson!

A small "rant" about the manuals you publish on tamiyausa.com, though..... I wish you could drop the full-frontpage-hyperlink thing.... It's very annoying when browsing it on my iPad.

Sorry it's policy and has to be done before it's uploaded.

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I've been away from the forums for about a year, came back to this fantastic news.

My dad bought be a super champ second hand when I was a kid, we both knew nothing about RC cars and when the electronics gave up we didn't know how to fix them. I didn't even know or understand what the car was. It was only when I started buying the kits as an adult that I remembered the super champ. I've been waiting for this re-release for years.

WOOHOO!

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The are some pictures of this Kit somewhere on another forum...

Don't know if the are legit, but I can't post those pictures...

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The Tokyo Hobby Show is this weekend so we should see some more photos on Tamiyablog soon.....and then it hits the stores exactly one week today. Should receive the price notification email from Stella on Sunday, with a bit of luck. Hopefully this thing will come in for around £190 delivered from them.

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