brushless for cludeless guy.

[Tamiya1/10]

I am looking at F1 kits by kyosho and speed passion, which the motor mount is for brushless motor.

Can someone either direct me where i can learn about brushless motor about the turn comparing to brushed motor and what to watch out for if i plan to use regular nicad batteries instead of lipo?

Thanks.

[Backlash]

_{What would you like to know?}

_{Many used to suggest that as a performance comparison between Brushed and Brushless was to choose a Brushless motor with half the turns as that of the Brushed motor that you would have used, but I believe that as Brushless technology has evolved, that is no longer the case..}

_{A Brushless motor will run off NiCd/NiMh batteries, but to get the most from them you are better off using LiPo batteries..}

[Tamiya1/10]

I am currently using 17.5 brushed F1 motor or was it 16.5? What is the equivlant for a brushless? Will regular 6 cells nicad bettery be OK without much loss of power or run time to a brushless equivalent? Thanks a bunch.

[Backlash]

OK.. With brushed motors, the turns are whole numbers, so it could be a 16 or 17 turn brushed?

I would estimate that a good 10.5 turn Sensored Brushless motor/ESC setup would be a good swap for that 16/17 turn brushed motor..

You may even consider a 13.5 turn Sensored Brushless motor as a slower, but more manageable alternative..

The problem is when making these comparisons is that you never know the brand, type, wind or condition of the Brushed motor you are trying to replace..

As for using NiCd/NiMh batteries.... The issue is with this older technology (NiCd/NiMh) is that its ability to deliver the current required becomes an issue especially when you go to a low turn motor, be that Brushed or Brushless....

I am yet to meet anyone who regrets moving over to LiPo Technology.. When you finally do, I bet you wont either.. LOL.

[dutch_rc]

From what I (only having run brushed motors) know, one can reasonably compare brushless to brushed by multiplying by 1.5 - so a 17.5T would more or less be the equivalent of a 27T brushed motor. It is definitely not an exact science though, you'd really have to look at max rpm and current draw for a better comparsion. The half sizes are there to indicate that the motor has a 540 size core, where the whole sizes have a 380 size motor inside. Going off road, I think you'd want to stick with a half size.

[Tamiya1/10]

Kyosho suggests 17.5 brushless and lipo battery. I am not really against lipo, but i don't have room for another charger and accessory to store them. My place is small, i would go for the current technology but i will need to rid my exiting batteries, which i bought some recently. I am picking up a lot from you guys, thanks.

[alfagta]

hi ,

going by the current brushless motor categories used in racing we have , 21t which is the same as a silver can 27t mabuchi , 17.5t is the same as a tuned 27t stock rebuildable , 13.5 is the same as 19t super stock ,

keep in mind that brushless systems are more efficient ( up to 20% longer run times than brushed depending on esc timing etc) than brushed systems and brushless esc's tend to be more tunable, punch, timing , boost timing , turbo timing etc can all be reduced to give the battery an easy life while still having a quick set up, so even if you use older battery tech you will get longer run times than with brushed , just disable the li-po low voltage cut off when using nicads or nimh and you should be fine .

have fun ,

[Tamiya1/10]

Hi Alfagta, thanks for the info. Do all brushless motor can turn off the low lipo voltage or is through the ESC, which if latter all ESC for brushless will have this feature?

[Backlash]

Hi Alfagta, thanks for the info. Do all brushless motor can turn off the low lipo voltage or is through the ESC, which if latter all ESC for brushless will have this feature?

Most, if not all Brushless ESC's sold these days will have an inbuilt LiPo cut off that can be turned on and off.. .. It should be listed in the ESC's specs..

[alfagta]

Hi Alfagta, thanks for the info. Do all brushless motor can turn off the low lipo voltage or is through the ESC, which if latter all ESC for brushless will have this feature?

hi again Tamiy1/10, as mentioned the settings are all controlled at the ESC ,you can still use the low volt cut off with ni-mh , just select 2.7v per cell (equivelant of 0.9v per cell in 6 cell stick pack) , this will keep your ni-mh in best condition.

motors do have timing adjust but that only effects where in its rev range the most power is developed , + timing gives more grunt at the top of the rev range , - timing gives more at the bottom of the rev range ,,

i havent seen a brushless system that doesnt have lipo cut off apart from tamiya systems which have LiFepo4 (A123) cut off ,

if i can bore you for a moment ,

the reason for tamiya's choice of LiFe batteries is quite simple , a few years ago the world of 1/10 touring went down to 5 cell nimh batteries , tamiya found life packs gave the same power as 5 cell but in a far more reliable and safe technology and so they committed to it , i love the power from li-po but feel 'life batteries' should have been the battery of choice but the american desire for 'more of everything' dictates what the rest of the world must use , tamiya feel we need to slow down a touch , i feel the same , i dont really have need of a motor and battery system that can do 60+mph in under a second and doubt many folks do , the popularity of stock and super stock racing is indicative of this ,

YAWN,

[Tamiya1/10]

Thank you gentlemen. I now have a better insight in brushless and will look for one similar to 17.5 F1 brushed motor, which i recall is over 28K rpm.

The next part is to decide with F1...Kyosho plazma, which i've read good write ups or speed passion with carbon but next to nothing and a higher price. I think i will seat for a while and decide. The seller has plenty in stock for now and i am ankle deep in F1 and i dove in head first

Thanks again Gents and any other info on brushless no matter how straight forward you may think will be most welcome.