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Torque Tuned - what is it?

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Hi!

Has anyone pulled apart a Torque Tuned motor to see what (if anything) makes it different to a normal silver can?

From the outside, it looks like nothing more than a bog-standard silver can with a sticker on it, which screams "sales gimmick".

Is there any real-world performance difference between it and a standard silver can?

Is it zero-timed?

Reason I am asking is that the silver cans in my WR-01 are getting a bit tired, and I was wondering if there is any point in getting it a pair of Torque Tuned motors, or if I should simply bung in two of the many new silver cans I have acquired over the years in various kits.

What do y'all think?

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Mabuchi RS-540SH, Johnson 540J and Tamiya Sport Tuned are all 27 turns, despite the misleading stats on TamiyaUSA.com.

The Sport Tuned differs in featuring advanced timing, for more top speed.

I assume the Torque Tuned is 27 turns with slightly advanced timing as well.

More info on the Sport Tuned incl. disassembly:

http://www.blackholesun.fr/RC_TB-01_US.php

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I've no hard specs for you, but my son is running a Torque tuned in his GF01 (came in the kit). It's certainly torquey - pops wheelies and stoppies very easilly although in fairness that car is designed for them. It's not really got much of a top end but at that's surely the tradeoff for having a lot of grunt down low.

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I have one in my DT-02 and it seems fast to me. I have not run a stock silver to compare it though.

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Sometimes they vary the brush position to give more low down torque or top end rpm.

I'm not sure about the current batch of motors but I think that's how they did the 'old black' motors.

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The black can Sport Tuned disassembled by a curious clubmate had 27 turns and advanced timing, so I would be a bit sceptical of TamiyaUSA's motor data.

The key issue here is the timing. If a Torque Tuned has zero timing, then it is a viable choice for twin motor MOA applcations. However if it is advanced, then it won't be happy running in reverse.

By any chance does anyone have one to hand, that they could try in both directions, and see/listen if it runs the same speed both ways?

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I have a couple kicking about I think, will it be noticeable? I am guessing I would have to Jerry rig a ESC up rather than just connecting a battery?

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Ideally you'd just connect it to a battery and see if reversing the polarity makes any difference to the pitch of the motor's note. An ESC adds another variable that may confuse matters, as many ESCs have different forwards and reverse speeds.

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Ideally you'd just connect it to a battery and see if reversing the polarity makes any difference to the pitch of the motor's note. An ESC adds another variable that may confuse matters, as many ESCs have different forwards and reverse speeds.

Ok

I have a 6v bike battery in the shed that should be better than an RC battery for this test. I will try and dig one out this weekend

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On another thought. How about a silver can in the front and a sport tuned in the rear? Any reason they need to match apart from the rear can might try and over speed the front. As speed it determined by power over spinning it would not harm it?

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Thanks for being willing to run the test.

Fitting a more powerful motor to the rear won't damage anything, but it would alter the handling. We tried this experiment with my brother-in-law's Wild Dagger, and found that a rearward power bias made the truck oversteer under acceleration and braking, and understeer the rest of the time. I'd rather keep my truck at 50/50.

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Thanks for being willing to run the test.

Fitting a more powerful motor to the rear won't damage anything, but it would alter the handling. We tried this experiment with my brother-in-law's Wild Dagger, and found that a rearward power bias made the truck oversteer under acceleration and braking, and understeer the rest of the time. I'd rather keep my truck at 50/50.

That is worth knowing, I have a dual motor to build so this is good information.

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Waiting for pizza dough to rise

GOPR8710_zpsbabfmxbv.jpg

Not sure but sounds a little slower in reverse, I would not say this was a conclusive test.

Feel free to take the pee out of how untidy my garage is.......

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That's brilliant - thanks!

To my ear the difference between the motor "note" in forwards and reverse is quite noticeable, which indicates that the Torque Tuned is not zero-timed, which in turn indicates that it is not a candidate for the front position in my Twin Detonator.

Question answered - nice one!

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The black can Sport Tuned disassembled by a curious clubmate had 27 turns and advanced timing, so I would be a bit sceptical of TamiyaUSA's motor data.

The key issue here is the timing. If a Torque Tuned has zero timing, then it is a viable choice for twin motor MOA applcations. However if it is advanced, then it won't be happy running in reverse.

By any chance does anyone have one to hand, that they could try in both directions, and see/listen if it runs the same speed both ways?

I think they're all about the same. Mabuchi has their reference motor at their web page (6527 motor) and it is out from this one all others are made. Sure Tamiya can use some fancy black colors of the can or the endbell, give them some new names, make up some new sci-fi datas, have stickers or non stickers on the motor etc, but that doesnt improve performance at all.

Their claimed performance of the sport tuned motor are laughable as it has more like 260-300 g-cm and 17,000 rpm, instead of their false advertised 350 g-cm and 18,300 rpm http://www.rct.jp/contents/lab/motor/lab020.html

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I wouldn't say that. I can't claim much faith in the published motor stats, but the back-to-back comparisons of otherwise identical cars fitted with silver cans and Sport Tuned motors that we did when finalising rules for our club's stock class showed a distinct performance advantage to the Sport Tuned. Certainly more than could be attributed to black paint and a nice sticker!

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Does anybody have a set of worn out torque tuned and silvercan motors?

Tear them apart and measure the lenght of the winding wire. (Also try to count the number of turns it takes to unwind)

If the silver is 27T and the TT is 25T, then the wire of the silvercan should be roughly 27/25 =1.08 times longer.

I never run my cars, so I'm of no help ;-)

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I wouldn't say that. I can't claim much faith in the published motor stats, but the back-to-back comparisons of otherwise identical cars fitted with silver cans and Sport Tuned motors that we did when finalising rules for our club's stock class showed a distinct performance advantage to the Sport Tuned. Certainly more than could be attributed to black paint and a nice sticker!

Isnt that kinda expected outcome with a motor that has advanced timing set? (my bad... paint, sticker, AND timing)

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It is indeed. That is my point exactly. There is more to it than just the paint and sticker. As confirmed by a clubmate who took one apart, the timing has also been advanced on a Sport Tuned.

There is also the issue of brushes. As we know, all else being equal, a Sport Tuned wears its brushes out far quicker than a silver can. This is no doubt due at least partly to the advanced timing of the Sport Tuned, but also suggests that the Sport Tuned is fitted with softer brushes.

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It is indeed. That is my point exactly. There is more to it than just the paint and sticker. As confirmed by a clubmate who took one apart, the timing has also been advanced on a Sport Tuned.

There is also the issue of brushes. As we know, all else being equal, a Sport Tuned wears its brushes out far quicker than a silver can. This is no doubt due at least partly to the advanced timing of the Sport Tuned, but also suggests that the Sport Tuned is fitted with softer brushes.

Maybe (just maybe) your right ;) the list getting longer; sticker, color, timing and softer brushes :P

I remember from some old magazine, that they recomend you to go with a smaller pinion if upgrading your buggy with a sport tuned motor(!).... jeeez! wonder why? couldnt it be because they are exacly the same piece of hardware like the standard 540, but with advanced timing set (hence the more rpm, but less torque)

Torque of the most common Tamiya kit motors are at the very same, if not better, than the sport tuned: http://www.rct.jp/contents/lab/motor/lab033.html#gyakuten

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