Powertron Plus Charger + New Batteries

[Galliano]

I have my original TMS Powertron Plus charger. When i fast charge my new 2100 7.2V racepack batteries, i am doing so for 20 mins like i used to with my old 1200 7.2V batteries. Is this correct, or do they require longer for a full charge?

[SJoerD]

I doubt a charger as old as you Monster Beetle would be a delta peak charger - is it a charger with a clock on it? The advantage of a delta peak charger is that it detect when the battery is full and then shuts off - rather than just shutting off after a cetain elapsed time regardless whether the pack is full or not.

I suggest you would buy a good charger for your batteries, something like a Protech Megapeak 3000, which I got for €40. This charger is also suitable for the newer 3000 and 3300 NiMH batteries. []

[Galliano]

Yeah it is one with a timer on it, making me feel old mate, it was cutting edge when i bought it!! LOL, though that was umm nearly 14 years ago!! How long does your Delta peak charger take to charge a flat battery then?

[SJoerD]

I never really meaured the time it took to charge one of my 3300's... [:I]

If it charges at 3 Amps (3000 mA), and I apply the 140% (1.4) rule, it SHOULD be:

(3300 mAh / 3000 mA) * 1.4 = 1.54h = 92 minutes

But that is for a high capacity 3300 pack, that has been fully discharged. NiMH's can be charged when not fully emptied first, as they don't have the 'memory effect' NiCd batteries have. For a 2100 pack to fully charge, that should be:

(2100 mAh / 3000 mA) * 1.4 = 0.98h = 59 minutes

The positive effect of a higher capacity battery means a longer runtime, but automatically it also means it takes longer to charge... []

But I think something went wrong in my 140% calculation, I think it's already calcualted in the 3000 value indicated by the charger - a 1200 would take 33 minutes this way? In that case it should be respectivily 66 minutes and 42 minutes for a 3300 and a 2100 battery... Hmmz... I think I'll just measure how long it takes next time, a lot easier. []

[Galliano]

That may explain my rather dissapointing run times from these new batteries, only been getting a half charge, if that!!

Cheers for the advice on the double posting, was unsure which forum the subject fell under and was not sure if people just read 'their' forum.

[wriggleandgiggle]

If I remember rightly the powertron is a silver and black box with an angled front.

These are def. not peak chargers.

I would stump up the 30 £/$/€ and buy a peak charger.

[Galliano]

Good memory!!!!! Thats the one, so a peak charger is the way to go then? I know this is a very vague question with lots of variables, but what sort of run time would you expect on a monster beetle (standard bearings at moment) running on a NiCD 2100 battery?

[SJoerD]

I often get 30 minutes of running on my King Blackfoot with a 3300 I think. At least, I am busy for about an hour finifhing 2 of these packs. I expect a monster Beetle to have the same power consumption, so you should be able to get about 15-20 minutes or so out of your pack.

Most people get about 5-15 minutes runtime out of their cars with a battery - I wonder why? Perhaps those people I heared it from used 1200's or similar, then it makes sense... []

If you buy another pack, go for a Sanyo if you haven't done so already. Those are so much better than many other brands. Though Panasonic and GP also make good batts, Sanyo is my favorite. Also the GP 3300 pack are slightly too long to fit most cars properly! [V]

[jimbo858]

quote:Originally posted by SJoerD

...If you buy another pack, go for a Sanyo if you haven't done so already. Those are so much better than many other brands. Though Panasonic and GP also make good batts, Sanyo is my favorite. Also the GP 3300 pack are slightly too long to fit most cars properly! [V]

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okay, this explains my problem. I got a three 3300Mah NiMh batteries off of ebay and they didn't fit. they were about 1/4" too long. someone mentioned that I should rebuild the battery packs in a side-by-side (flatpack) configuration and then the battery WOULD fit. Does this sound right?

[Live Steam Mad]

That also explains my GPTC204 (GP's own 6 cell stick pack with 3300 SCHR sub-C cells) battery pack being slightly too big for my King BlackFoot... battery size seems to be creeping up slightly with these new higher capacity NiMH's, which I find very odd.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad]

Hi,

I was comparing Sanyo's datasheet on this for their Sanyo 1700mAh "SCR" cells, which were popular in the 1990's, and found that the dimensions of these cells were 42mm +/-0.3mm long x 22mm +/- 0.3mm diameter, basically 42mm x 22mm.

Information is here ;-

http://sanyo.wslogic.com/pdf/pdfs/N-1700SCR.pdf

Also confirmed here (look at the dimensions of the "bare cell") ;-

http://www.sanyo.com/batteries/pdfs/cadnica_E.pdf

In this document, just about all of Sanyo's NiCd Sub-C cells can be seen to be sticking rigidly to the 42mm x 22mm dimensions.

[as a side note, there is very interesting information about the internal construction of the NiCD cell here ;-

http://www.sanyo.com/batteries/pdfs/cadnicaT_E.pdf ]

See how the dimensions have grown, when compared to GP's popular latest NiMH cells, their GP 3300SCHR and GP3700SCHR ;-

http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk/pic/330schR_R1.pdf

http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk/pic/370SCHR%...5037%20rev1.pdf

GP's cells are now 43mm +0.5mm/-1.0mm long x 23mm +0/-1.0mm diameter, or basically 43mm x 23mm.

So GP's cells have "grown" by 1mm in length compared with Sanyo NiCd cells of 15 years ago, and when you have 6 of them in a pack, then that obviously means that the 7.2V battery pack has grown by around 1/4 inch over the years, which explains why my GPTC204 (6 x GP3300SCHR, NiMH) battery pack is trying to break my ABS plastic battery retainer in my King BlackFoot, and why my old Sanyo SCRC1700 (6 x 1700SCRC, NiCd) pack fits fine.

This has implications for when I am going to try and replace my dead Sanyo 1200mAh SC NiCd cells in my SRB's Hump pack battery that I opened (see my showroom entry for my Hump pack battery) on my Ford Ranger XLT. I'll have to buy Sanyo NiMH cells for good capacity and hopefully a size of cell that still fits, and read the data sheets carefully to check the sizes.

Also as a side note in this tale, in the document above, it mentions the internationally recognised standards for cell sizes, which for sub C cells are apparently covered by only 2 standards ;-

1) Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) C8705 (1998) which lists the size standard called "KR23/43", which is 43mm +0mm/-1.5mm long x 23mm +0/-1.0mm diameter. The diameter here is exactly the same as GP uses on their GP3300SCHR and GP3700SCHR NiMH cells, but the length for the GP cells is allowed to be 0.5mm longer !

2) International Electrotechnical Commision (IEC) Publication 285 which lists the size standard also called "KR23/43", which is identical in dimension specifications to the above Japanese standard.

As far as I can see then, Sanyo's cells used to be shorter, from Sanyo's own choice/preference (?) in the 1980's and 1990's, whereas now that the user demands ever higher capacities, GP has it seems decided to make their cells longer, IN FACT uP TO 0.5mm LONGER than the maximum allowed international standard! This might not seem much but it quickly adds up to several mm when quite a few cells are connected into a larger battery pack. The modern R/C cars are OK with this, since they are designed to allow for these things, but Vintage R/C vehicles can have problems with the slightly longer batteries [V][]

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[terry.sc]

quote:Originally posted by Live Steam Mad

... GP has it seems decided to make their cells longer, IN FACT uP TO 0.5mm LONGER than the maximum allowed international standard! This might not seem much but it quickly adds up to several mm when quite a few cells are connected into a larger battery pack. The modern R/C cars are OK with this, since they are designed to allow for these things, but Vintage R/C vehicles can have problems with the slightly longer batteries

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All the R/C governing bodies also list the maximum cell size as 43 x 23mm, which the actual cans of GP cells are. There have been problems fitting the newer cells in modern touring cars as well, as the slotted chassis were designed for the old size cells to drop into. The latest chassis have had to be redesigned with bigger slots to cater for these slightly bigger cells.

BTW if 6 cells that are 1mm longer are made into a standard stick pack the pack will only be 3mm longer (2 sets of 3 cells). If the stick pack is slightly too long an easy way to shorten it by 2-3mm is to cut off the plastic end caps.

[Live Steam Mad]

Thanks Terry!

I have posted another topic asking about the actual length of the packs here ;-

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/xforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26045

Perhaps you could help me out with my query about cells for my SRB battery pack on that above topic?

Ta,

Ali.G