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1992/1993 TRF 411X build from new parts

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So another 411X is now born. A runner :) 

 

 

B481AD04-D8E9-4C45-B7D9-ABCFE97DCB47.jpeg

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4 hours ago, pUs said:

D762199D-6D4F-4184-BBA6-97F720F93E22.jpeg

WONDERFULL!

Shame on Tamiya that never produced this model.

Max

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5 hours ago, pUs said:

D762199D-6D4F-4184-BBA6-97F720F93E22.jpeg

My man!!! Specs, details, and more pics please!!!

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19 hours ago, kontemax said:

WONDERFUL!

Shame on Tamiya that never produced this model.

Max

 

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General

- Std '2nd edition' TRF411X carbon chassis
- Top Force battery mount, Nick Walker lipo X-brace
- Belt tensioner added (TRF414M parts). 
- Electrics moved forward as much as possible, the car is just too light with lipos (lighter than the Top Force) but at the same time got more weight at the rear.

Rear end

- "2nd edition" rear suspension with block for each arm (early 411X's had another, really cool setup which I've learnt since I did the build thread). Aluminium mounts by Custom RC
- TR-15T gearbox
- TR-15T hub carriers
- Top Force spur gear, re-drilled and dremelled out (really only to be able to gear a 13.5T properly, simply not possible with the std spur)
- New hole drilled for upper arm
- Top Force rear damper mount with some further holes
- Anti-roll bar mounted on backside of bulkhead
- TRF201X/re-re Egress hybrid CVDs
- Std sleeved dampers

Front end

- Graphite design caster blocks & GPM TA02 steering knuckles
- Pargu Egress steering arms
- Std wider 411X arms 
- Mini sleeved dampers
- Original TRF Manta Ray/Top Force fibreglass damper mount for short dampers
- Home made anti-roll bar
- TA02 CVD axles/TD4 bones hybrid CVD's

So far I've only driven the car at a quite difficult astro track. Compared to my Top Force it was more stable, a lot better over the bumps and generally feels easier to drive. I usually run vintage indoors on tighter tracks so it's hard to tell if it'll feel as good there. Transmission has been really smooth, no belt wear or skipping despite the fine pitch.

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Absolutely criminal that Tamiya didn’t give us any kind of version of this car! Thank you for this!

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On 10/16/2022 at 5:15 PM, kontemax said:

What body is this, please?

Max

It's a Parma Tomcat. Originally made for the Lazer ZX-R back in 1992 and fits the 411X perfectly. It's what most of the team drivers used when they raced the 411X..

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Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for taking the time to post all this :)

Very interested to here how the car goes as you get to run it more.

You mentioned the car being "very light". Do you have an actual figure in grams? are we talking 1500g? less?

How do you find/expect the ball diffs to hold up on the higher grip tracks?

Kick up angle? The rear anti-squat is 3*? same as Dyna? 

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18 hours ago, slydar said:

Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for taking the time to post all this :)

Very interested to here how the car goes as you get to run it more.

You mentioned the car being "very light". Do you have an actual figure in grams? are we talking 1500g? less?

How do you find/expect the ball diffs to hold up on the higher grip tracks?

Kick up angle? The rear anti-squat is 3*? same as Dyna? 

Thanks! :)

Weight, well nothing extreme really but I still didn't expect it. Compared to my Top Force Evolution which is basically standard apart from the Custom RC rear anti-squat kit and some aluminium parts, the 411X roughly 25 grams lighter running the exact same electronics which surprised me a bit - I would've thought the opposite because of the slightly more complicated rear transmission. It's mostly the front end that's considerably lighter due to the its very simple, neat and uncluttered layout - the rear on the contrary is a bit heavier than the TF. So as a consequence, the 411X has more of its weight at the rear. Can't say it's either good or bad but running lipos which are so lightweight, I suppose it evens out the balance a bit. My first thought was to load it up with lead weights at the front to sort of make it match the weight balance of my TF but it didn't really do much, it just kept the nose down too much / excessively when jumping. So I took away most of it. I still suspect it could be a bit 'lazy' on tight indoor tracks but it remains to be seen. The only weights remaining are to balance L/R at the rear end, it's a bit too light on the rear right hand side due to the motor not being entirely centered (the belt spacer offsets it ~8mm or so).

Ball diffs hold up really well so far, they're just std dyna storm diffs but with carbide balls for the gear and ceramic balls for the thrust bearing. Feels smooth with no slip. I think running a slipper saves them a bit as well, I'm not really a fan of that 'MDC' clutch but it's a piece of that cars character. :)Since I also have a limited amount of spare 411X belts I'll do whatever I can to ease the pain. The belt still looks like new, took a lot of care to set the tension loosely enough so that I can get away with running a belt tensioner. Not sure if it helps a lot but so far so good..

The front kick up angle is actually slightly more aggressive than the Top Force. Haven't measured but I think it's at least 5 degrees more. Rear anti-squat is either zero or the same as the Dyna Storm (got two types of suspension blocks). I would say the worst thing with the car is the complete lack of front chassis kick-up. I knew this before from talking to a few team drivers who ran this car, but experienced it myself as well. I understand completely now why they ran that bent lexan piece instead of a bumper :)

Other notable details - way, way less slop than the Manta Ray/Top Force series of cars. Basically nothing in the front or rear suspension, and way more precise and less sloppy steering setup. It feels more like a Schumacher car from that era, than a Tamiya in that sense. I guess that won't automatically mean it'll perform any better, but it certainly doesn't hurt either its consistency or the way it responds to setup changes.


 

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On 11/2/2022 at 4:45 AM, pUs said:

Thanks! :)

Weight, well nothing extreme really but I still didn't expect it. Compared to my Top Force Evolution which is basically standard apart from the Custom RC rear anti-squat kit and some aluminium parts, the 411X roughly 25 grams lighter running the exact same electronics which surprised me a bit - I would've thought the opposite because of the slightly more complicated rear transmission. It's mostly the front end that's considerably lighter due to the its very simple, neat and uncluttered layout - the rear on the contrary is a bit heavier than the TF. So as a consequence, the 411X has more of its weight at the rear. Can't say it's either good or bad but running lipos which are so lightweight, I suppose it evens out the balance a bit. My first thought was to load it up with lead weights at the front to sort of make it match the weight balance of my TF but it didn't really do much, it just kept the nose down too much / excessively when jumping. So I took away most of it. I still suspect it could be a bit 'lazy' on tight indoor tracks but it remains to be seen. The only weights remaining are to balance L/R at the rear end, it's a bit too light on the rear right hand side due to the motor not being entirely centered (the belt spacer offsets it ~8mm or so).

Ball diffs hold up really well so far, they're just std dyna storm diffs but with carbide balls for the gear and ceramic balls for the thrust bearing. Feels smooth with no slip. I think running a slipper saves them a bit as well, I'm not really a fan of that 'MDC' clutch but it's a piece of that cars character. :)Since I also have a limited amount of spare 411X belts I'll do whatever I can to ease the pain. The belt still looks like new, took a lot of care to set the tension loosely enough so that I can get away with running a belt tensioner. Not sure if it helps a lot but so far so good..

The front kick up angle is actually slightly more aggressive than the Top Force. Haven't measured but I think it's at least 5 degrees more. Rear anti-squat is either zero or the same as the Dyna Storm (got two types of suspension blocks). I would say the worst thing with the car is the complete lack of front chassis kick-up. I knew this before from talking to a few team drivers who ran this car, but experienced it myself as well. I understand completely now why they ran that bent lexan piece instead of a bumper :)

Other notable details - way, way less slop than the Manta Ray/Top Force series of cars. Basically nothing in the front or rear suspension, and way more precise and less sloppy steering setup. It feels more like a Schumacher car from that era, than a Tamiya in that sense. I guess that won't automatically mean it'll perform any better, but it certainly doesn't hurt either its consistency or the way it responds to setup changes.


 


TFE is definitely very light already though, pretty hard to drive on higher grip surfaces.

I think the weight is a big thing. I ran a Top Force for while and used a full size lipo. When I switched to a shorty it never handled as well. I found these TLR weights are really handy, and pretty cheap. you can stack 2, if you use the 2 heavy ones its about 60g.

On the lack of chassis kick up, I've run an 870c before, in some ways similar. I was worried about the flat underside but I never really had a problem? With the 1 way you tend to drive/jump it a less aggressive way (than a modern car) I found, so didn't really have an issue with it, but probably as you push more and more it could start to be a limitation. 

 

 

TLR331045-250.jpg

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