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ESC Requirements for Re-re Bruiser/Mountain Rider?

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Was fortunate enough to get the "ok" to pick up a Mountain Rider for my birthday. In an attempt to minimize costs (and keep the peace on the homefront), I'd like to use one of the Tamiya ESCs I have laying around, rather than pick up a new unit.
I have a TEU-104BK, which the manual specifically states cannot be used. Can someone help explain why this won't work?
I also have a TLBE-02S -- any chance this will work? The truck will be a light runner, so springing for a Tekin FXR (seems to be a popular recommendation) is likely overkill.
I'm a bit new to this ESC business, as I hopped from MSCs to Nitro, and then dropped out of the hobby for a bit.
Thanks!

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Was fortunate enough to get the "ok" to pick up a Mountain Rider for my birthday. In an attempt to minimize costs (and keep the peace on the homefront), I'd like to use one of the Tamiya ESCs I have laying around, rather than pick up a new unit.

I have a TEU-104BK, which the manual specifically states cannot be used. Can someone help explain why this won't work?

I also have a TLBE-02S -- any chance this will work? The truck will be a light runner, so springing for a Tekin FXR (seems to be a popular recommendation) is likely overkill.

I'm a bit new to this ESC business, as I hopped from MSCs to Nitro, and then dropped out of the hobby for a bit.

Thanks!

Firstly, I have no idea how to answer your question, it's like saying my wife let me buy the Porsche I want, will $20 floor mats work. I run a Traxxas Xl 5 esc in my Tundra which I believe is a rough equivalent spec wise to your totally awesome birthday present. ..sorry a little jealousy snuck out.. and it works great... I just picked up 2 brand new ones for $25 a piece and they will go with my Tamiya motors... your controllers will be the money pit. As you will need a four channel set up like a plane.. I just picked up a Spektrum Dx4e and a Spektrum Ar400 receiver... look forward to a build thread... this probably doesn't help but I would say just get on with it or you will regret buying and not doing if the way you really want to..

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If it is single motor then the 02s should work fine.

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Doesn't the Mountain Rider use an unusually big motor?

I am not overly familiar with it, but I seem to recall it runs more than the usual 540. If this is the case, a higher-spec ESC may indeed be required, depending on the motor in question.

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Doesn't the Mountain Rider use an unusually big motor?

I am not overly familiar with it, but I seem to recall it runs more than the usual 540. If this is the case, a higher-spec ESC may indeed be required, depending on the motor in question.

I believe the original Mountaineer has a 750, but for the re-re Mountain Rider Tamiya just threw in a standard silver can, which led to my confusion around the ESC. Possibly the 3-speed puts more load on the electronics requiring a heftier ESC???

Firstly, I have no idea how to answer your question, it's like saying my wife let me buy the Porsche I want, will $20 floor mats work. I run a Traxxas Xl 5 esc in my Tundra which I believe is a rough equivalent spec wise to your totally awesome birthday present. ..sorry a little jealousy snuck out.. and it works great... I just picked up 2 brand new ones for $25 a piece and they will go with my Tamiya motors... your controllers will be the money pit. As you will need a four channel set up like a plane.. I just picked up a Spektrum Dx4e and a Spektrum Ar400 receiver... look forward to a build thread... this probably doesn't help but I would say just get on with it or you will regret buying and not doing if the way you really want to..

Haha -- that's a fair point -- I probably shouldn't get cheap now. Was hoping to get it running with what I already have on hand and upgrade later :P I have an old 4-ch AM (from an M38 restoration that's waiting to get off the ground), but want to get up to a 2.4 system eventually. Thanks for the tips on the Spektrum and Traxxas kit.

Also put in a request to Tamiya around the TBLE-02S, and will report back if/when I hear form them.

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I run the Tekin FX-R, great kit, not that expensive for what you get. Don't cheap out on electronics. There are less expensive alternatives that others can suggest.. .. I'd say you could get away with spending less than $75 on an ESC and be fine.

If you plan on running, I would go with a new 2.4 ghz radio set up now. They have become very reasonable in price and are light years ahead of the old AM/FM.

You only need a 3 channel radio, as long as the third channel has a 3 position switch for the transmission shifting or you can go with the standard 4 channel 2 stick from Futaba (Attack 4YWD) made for the Bruiser (now in 2.4 ghz) for $100 from Ebay and Stellamodels. The Futaba mentioned has self centering sticks unlike air radios. I have this one it's solid.

Traxxas makes a great 2.4 ghz radio with a 3 position channel , can be had for $50 on Ebay (From their Summit truck), for a little more you can get a digital radio from other brands for finer adjustments.

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The Spektrum DX4S is a nicely-made piece of kit, with the ability to assign any of its multiple switches to 3-position mode. The digital trims and EPAs also make it easy to precisely set the shift servo's position for each gear. Worth consideration perhaps?

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I agree with DoJo Dave. I have a Mountain Rider I completed about a month ago, and even though price was no consideration for me, I only paid GB £30 for the ESC in mine. Which is an Axial AE-5 waterproof ESC. I went with the AE-5 because a. it's waterproof, b. it has a drag brake which is AMAZING and c. because it works with both 2s and 3s LiPos without needing a BEC. Whilst I don't have a BEC, I am getting one because I need more power on my waterproof Savox servos, which an ESC BEC won't deliver.

Think about how you're going to use the truck once it's done. If you're planning any crawling, get something with a decent drag brake. Think about waterproofing. And while you get what you pay for, know that you don't need to spend a fortune to get something decent.

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If it's only a silvercan 540 (27turn; or higher turn "crawler" motor) even the cheapest TEU101BK etc will suffice.

Even to the Original 750 that doesn't draw that much current, they run off MSCs in the originals lest we forget. When I needed to get an old 3spd moving last time I popped in a Futaba 330 into the RX battery tray... leaving MSC & servo insitu. Ran fine, ESC didn't even get warm in that tiny closed space.

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The nice thing about the xl5 I'd the low voltage shut off.

Oh and it's waterproof the blue traxxas servos are waterproof also...

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@Fourth Protocol -- I actually found your site while doing a Google search on the Mountain Rider a couple weeks back -- good to see you on TC. I bought the same hex adapters from China thinking I could readily switch between stock 2.2s and smaller 1.9/1.55 hex's, but that offset is awful...

oh well.

The Axial ESC can certainly be picked up cheaply. Very similar specs to the HPI mentioned in this Bruiser build thread, but with added drag brake: http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76967

@backtomyroots -- that Futaba two stick is tempting 2.4 is tempting. I like the idea of the old school shift gate. Most of the other 4-channel 2-stick radios I've found were all FM band. I did find a 2.4ghz 4-ch surface radio by Tactic, but not familiar with the brand...

@Dojo Dave -- Does the Traxxas XL-5 have drag brake? Doesn't mention it on the product page. Probably will only do trail with this truck, so not sure if I'll want that feature or not.

Thanks again, all.

Btw, told my wife about some of the feedback from TC. Her response? "Yeah, don't be cheap." Haha, *sigh*

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meh you get what you pay for, but ESCs are in the rare category of goods that can be blindingly good value if you buy certain gear from established brand names... like the HobbyWing 1060 aka YeahRacing 1060

But if She is to be Obeyed... she's telling you to buy the MFU? ;)

Separately Required Items (Not Included):

Radio Control Unit

Futaba Attack 4VWD (T4VWD) and TAMIYA TEU-302BK ESC are recommended.

A transmitter with over 3 channels (Channel for gear changes must be zoneless or set to 3 position), ESC and 2 servos are requried to enjoy all operations.

A 2-channel transmitter with ESC and 1 servo can also be used but the gear change function will be inoperable.

*TAMIYA TEU-101BK and TEU-104BK ESCs cannot be used.

I suspect that vendor's recommendation (copied verbatim from Bruiser listing btw) has more to do with those 2 nonBEC ESCs not playing nice with certain Futaba RXes that expect BEC voltage input only.

If it works ok with your radio gear then it's fine for running any 540 silvercan.

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Congrats on getting the kit. You'll want in addition to the kit a pair of decent servo's, a suitable remote (I'm using a Futaba FF7 heli controller) and of course the ESC. You might want to consider a decent hex bolt kit for the chassis too...like this.. http://rc-schrauben.de/Screw-kit-for-the-Tamiya-Toyota-4x4-Bruiser-36RN

I see you found my build thread. The rere uses an RS540SH motor. I believe this is a 27 turn and I think the motor is like a torque tuned motor but can't be certain. The Jun hornet has the same motor.

I don't know why Tamiya say not to use that esc, (I imagine it's maybe from the additional load from driving the much heavier drivetrain). I wanted lipo capability anyway (the core rc lipo will fit the battery tray) and since the bruiser kit doesn't include esc I went with the HPI. As you have found the Axial esc is virtually the same but with drag brakes. Here's a post regarding this from my Bruiser thread on the MSUK forum.

-------------------------------

I thought the HPI esc was the same as the Axial when I saw the axial one the other day, the outer case is identical! I just looked at the instructions online, mine has two jumpers to make adjustment, one is lipo to nimh, the other is reverse on or off, the Axial looks to have replaced this function with drag brakes 50% or 100%. It's also more expensive £38 vs £26, so looks like it's fundamentally the same esc just featured differently. Have to say, the Axial drag brake feature looks more worthwhile if you're planning to go crawling, but at that cost its nearly the cost of the brushless esc for which you can connect the control box and change a whole load more settings.

Axial instructions
http://docs.axialrac...-Drag_Brake.pdf

Hpi instructions for their similar brushed esc
http://www.hpiracing...wp_glb_m_v1.pdf

Looks the perfect esc. Ps. Motor limit and rest of specs are the same on axial, 12t on 2s, 18t on 3s. Nice esc.

For me, I think the drag brake function being permanently on with the Axial would wear me out for the type of driving I do, and the instant forward/reverse with no brake in between wouldn't suit me, but if you're a crawler then I guess this is definately the way to go. Drag brakes are pre set as 100% from factory, and interesting that HPI suggests on the esc that if in crawler mode drag brakes should be set at 100%. I presume that's to save the gearbox among other things.

------------------------

For the Bruiser/Mountain rider, at least we now know that this ESC fits nicely in the electronics box and the switch can be made to fit below the rubber boot with just the use of a zip tie. The switch is much smaller than the tamiya one. Consider this if you're looking at other ESC's.

Here is the switch and cable tie arrangement (ignore the futaba wires, they're for the light kit and exit elsewhere now);

med_gallery_28308_3720_417384.jpg

med_gallery_28308_3720_368431.jpg

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The Hobbywing 1060, Yeah Racing 1060, Axial AE-5 and HPI are all the same esc (Hobbywing) with the jumper pin exception of the Axial having a split for the brakes instead of the option of what drive you want. Either Forward only, Forward-brake-reverse, or Forward-(instant)-reverse. The forward instant reverse option has a drag brake when in neutral, very ideal for crawlers. You would more than likely use the standard forward/brake/reverse over the other two settings as you potter around your house. That would lead me to not recommending the Axial version, unless you like instant reverse and drag brake and don't want an option of changing it.

I also have 3 Tekin FX-R's, beautifully made esc's and so linear and smooth, very easy to drive with.

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Slight off topic, I don't have any experience with crawlers other than loving seeing them and reading up on them. With the drag brakes, I presume that function is constantly sapping power from the battery when in neutral? If so, is it a noticeable amount or barely perceptible?

I didn't realise the Hobby King/Yeah Racing ESC were the same as the HPI/Axial. Looking at them the packaging is different, a much lower heatsink and capacitor on the outside?! The amperage ratings appear different too, although they both specify 12T lowest on a 2S.

HPI

med_gallery_28308_3720_411276.jpg

Axial

ae-5_esc_800x533.jpg

Hobbyking

QR-1060-2.jpg

Yeah Racing

yeahracing-ESC-1060WP-1.jpg

Cheers

Nito

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But if She is to be Obeyed... she's telling you to buy the MFU? ;)

Haha, don't want to press my luck too far! I have a TLU-01 that was supposed to go into a drift car that never materialized, so I'll probably just start with basic lights.

For the price, the HPI ESC is looking promising -- given the type of trail/puttering around I plan on doing, the drag brake wouldn't be desirable. I'd like to get a dedicated crawler eventually (not this year, obviously :D ), at which point the features of the FXR would totally make sense.

@Nitomor -- thanks for the heads up on the fitment, will keep in mind. Stainless screws look tempting. Are the Tamiya-supplied ones really the consistency of hard cheese? :wacko:

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Put it this way, you know when you've reached the desired torque because the screwdriver slips out and the screw head rounds off slightly. The screw heads are the same as the screws used in the plastic kits, but obviously into metal and threadlocking, you're tightening much more than you would into plastic. As a once off fit and forget it's fine tbh, but if you were to undo something and do up again you'd soon start to round the heads off too much.

It's more an OCD nice to have thing really. It's one of the very few bits of the build which stood out as sub standard relative of course to the rest of the build which is so awesome!!

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Are you using JIS screwdrivers, or philips or posi?

You need to be using JIS screwdrivers in Tamiya and Kyosho kits.

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I've just purchased the Axial AE-5 for my Mountaineer after re reading this thread.

@frameskip, another well priced 2.4 ghz radio with a three position switch for shifting is the Tactic TTX300, I went to buy one today for my ride, but both my local shops were out :(.

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@backtomyroots -- Actually just picked up the HPI SC-3SWP this week as it was super cheap. Considered the Axial, but wasn't sure the drag brake would fit my driving style. HPI might make its way into my Hotshot II beater if I need the drag brake.

Let us know how the Tactic works out if you pick one up. Curious about quality, etc.

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Just ordered the Tactic TTX300, will be here next week then I will install it. Shelf Queen though sso report will be based on a living room run.

What radio did you go for ?

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I've used the HPI on my Bruiser rere, but on the fence with regards the Mountain Rider, HPI vs Axial....might be nice to have a different one in each. Doubt I'll start on the Mountain Rider until xmas at the earliest so plenty of time to decide. It's unlikely I'll ever crawl these so maybe HPI again.

For a crawler, is the slipper clutch a good idea or a total waste of time?! I didn't fit this hop up to the Bruiser after reading others had had trouble with it slipping just trying to go up a steep obstacle and I left both diffs open on the Bruiser. Would crawler spec be locking the diffs, drag brakes and slipper clutch? I'll be running beadlocks on both so no slip from the tyres.

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There's quite an informative thread here

http://www.tamiyarcforums.com/forum/showthread.php?4824-Re-Re-Bruiser-Slipper-Clutch-Question

I think if running beadlocks and locking the diffs its probably a good idea to run a slipper. I think the previously reported issue other users had had was down to improper installation. Not using threadlock on the adjuster or cleaning the oil off the plates as the instructions call for would result in the issue others were experiencing for example. Setup correctly it would just take up a little slack before damaging the gearbox. The slipper is also on the outside part of the gearbox right by the pinion so no need to go internal to adjust as such.

I'm tempted to build up the mountain rider with both diffs locked, slipper and Axial esc with drag brakes. Neither would likely get much use if any, so it would be nice to compare the two different chassis setups. Should also get a basher shell which I could use with either chassis and keep the originals for shelf duties!

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