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RMR110

Hardened buggy Front arm shafts - Champ vs DIY

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Hi,

i have an original Rough Rider and getting sick of straightening the front arm shafts anytime i tag something harder than a pile of leaves. I understand that the re-released Buggy champ arm shafts are hardened but then saw another comment on this site that they weren't that much better than the originals. Can anyone offer a comparison between the 2, and whether the new ones would be better than the originals.

Has anyone tried hardening their own using high heat and quenching or is it asking for trouble and likely lead to premature failure if not done correctly?

Cheers and thanks

RMR110

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By front arm shafts, do you mean the tierods, or the rods that run through the front clip?

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Someone please answer this question, I am also wondering the same thing.

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In the manual they are called front arm shafts . I would guess that the f,a,s's are as per the original SS , RR , Ranger , a soft metal alloy to compete on price , hardened original Superchamp shafts are a must for runners , if you can get them . Are re-re Fighting Buggy shafts hardened?

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Re-re Fighting Buggy front arm shafts are not hardened. They are the same silver metal as the re-re Sand Scorcher and Buggy Champ.

The Universal joints in the re-re Fighting Buggy are also not hardened and are the same as the re-re SS and BC.

The steering links are also lightweight and the same as the re-re SC and BC.

In the original Super Champ, these were the things that were hardened or made out of black steel and made the SC much tougher.

It was disappointing that Tamiya decided not to do the same thing with the re-re FB. Turned it into another regular SRB with a different body style really instead of something more unique.

As for homemade hardening, I have no idea.

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In the original Super Champ, these were the things that were hardened or made out of black steel and made the SC much tougher.

It was disappointing that Tamiya decided not to do the same thing with the re-re FB. Turned it into another regular SRB with a different body style really instead of something more unique.

As for homemade hardening, I have no idea.

"frantically searches ebay for original SC arms"...... I think i may just order some replacements then try the DIY hardening on the new ones. I understand the risk is they turn hard but brittle so i may snap them, but if it works then it will eliminate another problem area.

I did read a 2011 thread on this forum where a machinist made his own using hardened steel, and if i had a friend with a lathe i would go down that route myself.

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The only suggestions I have for do-it-yourself hardening is based on watching How It's Made and other shows that describe how and why hardening is done a certain way:

1. After putting the item into high heat, quench it in oil to slow the hardening and cooling process and make the metal less brittle than if it were quenched in water. The speed of cooling is really dependent on the steel composition (carbon content). Without that info, it's just guesswork.

2. Put the item back into heat again to reduce internal stresses caused by the rapid cooling.

3. Cool the part slowly. Again, the rate of cooling has an impact on how brittle or tough the part will be.

http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel

I have no idea what metal alloy or carbon content (if any) the front arm shafts are made of in the re-re SRBs, so it is possible that they melt into blobs of hot metal goo or brittle like plaster instead of nice hardened parts.

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Hi the best way to harden steel is by heating it up to cherry red when it glows red, and then dropping it into a metal can filled with a little used motor oil that will just cover the part , be careful when dropping it in.

and when you do it one time wipe off oil on the part heat it again and do it one more time .

It works because the carbon from the used oil hardens the metal.

I had a duratrax evader and when I ran lipo with brushless the top gear shaft always stripped the metal gear but after I did this it lasted long and I never had to replace the gear again.

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I think you have the wing idea here. You don't want these shafts to be hard. You want them strong and tough. The toughest steels are not as hard as the hardest. If you harden them you will have to temper them back to regain some toughness. When in actual fact no real hardness is actually required. These are not sliding interface wear critical parts but are being damaged by impact bending. I would suggest a tough steel like piano wire as a good material to make some from.

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I think you have the wing idea here. You don't want these shafts to be hard. You want them strong and tough. The toughest steels are not as hard as the hardest. If you harden them you will have to temper them back to regain some toughness. When in actual fact no real hardness is actually required. These are not sliding interface wear critical parts but are being damaged by impact bending. I would suggest a tough steel like piano wire as a good material to make some from.

Thanks for the explanation LongRat, metallurgy is not my strong point and you've highlighted that the description around these is often misleading, and taught me something to boot. If I decide to have some made I'll be better placed to specify what i need rather than just ask for hardened steel ( i think SS or piano wire sounds good).

Cheers.

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Ultimately, stiffness is a fuction of the crystal structure ( arrangement of the component element atoms ) of the alloy.

If you cant find original super champ rods, I remember seeing back in the day, piano wire / model aircraft undercarriage ( diameter to fit the trailling arm ) type rod fitted with aluminium / brass sleeves turned on a lathe to fit the aluminium tubes held in place with locktite on an interference fit. The theory being you need specialised tooling / grinding ability to shape steel as tough as piano type wire on a lathe.

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As long as you stay close to the chuck you can machine piano wire with carbide tooling. However for longer parts I agree it's a lot easier with a grinder mounted in the tool post. Using an aluminium intermediate part sounds like a very good idea for this application.

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