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Tamiya's Lancia Rally - A Different Take

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The original Lancia Rally on the O.R.V. chassis is often cited as an example of misleading box art. A nice scale work on the box cover hid a kit that assembled into more of a stadium truck than a sleek rally racer once completed. The same problem befell Tamiya’s Audi Quattro and Opel Ascona releases earlier, with the scale appearance being compromised by off-road performance requirements; at the time, the solution was to use larger tires and greater ground clearance, which eventually turned these cars into curious caricatures. On one hand, the body detailing of each was quite fine, but on the other hand the proportions were way off from the real thing.

The original Tamiya Lancia Rally had its wheels pushing visibly outwards from the fenders, even more so than the earlier Quattro and Ascona as the new car also had a wider front track. Despite its controversy it was re-released on a touring car chassis in 2001, with the new platform allowing for a much-more proportional stance.

But what if a re-release had used similar wheels, tires, and shell mouldings, but a different chassis to bring everything underneath the shell? The result would still not be completely accurate to the real car; however the larger tires and still-usable ground clearance could make it a superior off-road racer to the touring car-based re-release. The hypothetical car would also have a unique stance not entirely unlike the Honda City Turbo, balancing form and function more evenly in a slightly less-cartoonish format (even if the Honda City Turbo was supposed to be a caricature). Who knows; it might even look good with subtly-oversized tires sitting under the fenders for a change!

Even when the front box panel included an illustration of the O.R.V. chassis, it would still not be obvious to the hobbyist that the chassis would fit as it did beneath the body unless he or she glanced at the side panels. This was the inspiration that befell me this morning, and using a spare body shell and Honda City Turbo wheels I began drawing:

akfv9j.jpg

The drawings are close to the actual model scale, and in the cases of certain lines I was able to trace the shell itself. I was able to draw out a full-size plan this way, measuring front and rear track widths; wheelbase; and usable space within the wheel arches:

33yrlew.jpg

The chassis design is purely speculation; as a rookie to the practice there are clearly plenty of fundamental mistakes in the confusing scheme of things! This one is for a double-deck-type design that draws off touring car standards but subtracts the front gearbox – this 037 is rear-wheel drive. In the spirit of the original, a space-frame chassis may also be employed. The overall design philosophy would see the chassis built up more like a buggy than a touring car, anyways, which would help with its off-road performance.

Ultimately, it was the proposed stance that sold me on such a conversion:

qrdg8h.jpg

A little more muscle-bound than normal but no longer a spider-like chassis… It should look even better in an isometric view, which I am working on!

The scale of these drawings is more apparent here:

23ticn5.jpg

This would be a very ambitious project to start from scratch, but using parts from other chassis and joining them with custom pieces where advantageous (i.e.: a front bulkhead unit) could yield a manageable chassis. The car would use Honda City Turbo wheels and tires since they are of similar dimensions and much-greater abundance than the original Michelin TRX-styled tires and Lancia wheels.

I am unsure if this idea will ever proceed past drawings, but I still think this is what the original Tamiya Lancia Rally – or the re-release, for that matter – could have been. Would it have fared better than either one, I wonder?

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Great explanation of your intentions here :) I don't think that this is an excessively difficult project and judging by your drawing abilities you are well capable of bringing this to life ^_^ In fact I would be disappointed if you don't ;)

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Good work so far, from I can see there, I'd be thinking along the lines of a TA03R-S chassis. 237mm wheelbase and then you might be able to flip the arms to extend the track?

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After a quick search I see Tamiya already re-released it on this chassis. I just found this article

http://www.classic.rc-junkies.net/?p=2635

Interesting that it appears Tamiya changed the wheel wells on the bodyshell to look more proportioned. Which shell do you have, original or re-re?

Cheers

Nito

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I guess I really did just re-design the TA-03RS without drive belts! Perhaps this will be the base for the project - although at that point I may as well just settle for a re-release 037!

Whatever the case, flipping the arms would get the idea wheelbase. Suspension details would get murky, though, when accommodating the larger wheels and tires of the Honda City Turbo. However, I guess/hope the components would be there to fit the front wheels without problems as an adapted TA-03RS would retain hexagonal adapters on the front uprights. The track would probably have to be substantially narrowed to fit the larger treads.

I feel a little morally-ambiguous about using GoFundMe to raise capital for this project, but we will see! The most significant issues are lack of funds and possibly time as I am still a student; hence rent, food, etc. take priority. Again, we will see :P

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Hi Grastens good to see another Lancia project.

I am thinking along exactly the same lines but plan on using a TA02SW chassis (basically a TA02 chassis with TA01 rear arms on in a reversed position.)

The Porsche GT2 Taisan and the re-re are both on this chassis and the Porsche also fits on the TA03RS (PIAA version) so you know they are identical in wheelbase.

Leave out the shaft and you end up with a RWD chassis that is great for rallying (more enclosed than the TA03) and a 237mm wheelbase.

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This thread was deservedly abandoned a while ago, but an interesting footnote exists:

2v3ikuh.jpg

We may see it rise again. The reissue of the Tamiya Honda City Turbo and the use of chassis extension plates can now produce a robust and easy-to-maintain alternative chassis for a Lancia Rally.

The Honda City Turbo features a wheelbase of 185 mm, which is up from the WR-02's figure of 170 mm. Coaxing approximately 50 mm (I counted 52), most likely using custom side plates as first used by TC member IBIFTKH (http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71419&p=552524) will get the necessary dimensions to fit a Lancia Rally shell. The re-release's wheelbase of 237 mm will do here due to superior suspension geometry compared to the original, which used a wheelbase of 248 mm with the original chassis' front suspension setup.

A custom chassis would see the rear track set up similarly to the front, unlike in this example:

wujcia.jpg

The extra offset out back has to do with the WR-02C's original setup as the Honda City Turbo. It is still less-conspicuous than the original Lancia Rally's configuration, though!

Body mounting is less of a challenge than anticipated due to the Honda City Turbo's use of a single post at the front and the clearance of its stock rear mounts with the shell, meaning holes may need to be drilled in the rear glass but not in the shell itself. However, the front mounting hole is of a smaller diameter than that of the Honda City Turbo and placed a little further back here than the post itself. It still means that the resulting shell can retain its compatibility with both the classic and the custom chassis.

It is too early to talk about it, but: paint? I think either a depiction of an alternative Lancia 037 (such as one of the other works Martini Racing cars, a junior team Totip car, or even a privateer example) or an alternative base-colour Martini Racing car (black is a popular choice) would do well. Box-art would work if the shell were to swap between an original and this custom chassis, although the lack of box-art wheels would see less incentive to keep another box-art example.

That being said: box-art wheels, with the proper adapters, could reduce the offset to more 'scale' dimensions...

The WR-02C inspiration was the result of another restomod-type project involving another classic Tamiya rally car. Consequently, this project will be delayed yet again while I get that one sorted out! Updates may not be forthcoming for this a while yet - again...

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Tamiya - are you paying attention? This would work for the Audi and Opel bodies as well...

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That looks great Grastens!

Can you show us what you have done with the chassis? I am currently working on a re-re Lancia shell, opening out the wheel arches to replicate the original. I also have a WR02 chassis lying around and I like where you are going with this.

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I wonder about the MF-01X chassis too - with the ability to build as S,M and most importantly 239mm L wheelbase, together with its relatively narrow track width (ca 170mm) it could be another option to get those wheels under the arches ?

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I wonder about the MF-01X chassis too - with the ability to build as S,M and most importantly 239mm L wheelbase, together with its relatively narrow track width (ca 170mm) it could be another option to get those wheels under the arches ?

The motor may overhang a lot if you're doing the any of the re-release shells.

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Tamiya - are you paying attention? This would work for the Audi and Opel bodies as well...

That is the plan ;) The idea of a WR-02 Lancia Rally really came about when I was looking at doing an Opel Ascona on the WR-02. That may get a build thread later on. Right now, adding 30 mm to a WR-02 or WR-02C is more realistic than adding 50 mm, but it can still happen!

That looks great Grastens!

Can you show us what you have done with the chassis? I am currently working on a re-re Lancia shell, opening out the wheel arches to replicate the original. I also have a WR02 chassis lying around and I like where you are going with this.

I will get to this with this next post!

I wonder about the MF-01X chassis too - with the ability to build as S,M and most importantly 239mm L wheelbase, together with its relatively narrow track width (ca 170mm) it could be another option to get those wheels under the arches ?

Compelling! It is worth remembering that a 4WD Lancia 037 exists:

0024626l.jpg

This particular car, I believe, was developed well after the 037's prime. There were plans to build a different 4WD 037 back in the 80s for autocross; however that was never developed either. Of course, the next 4WD Lancia rally car would be the Delta S4!

The motor may overhang a lot if you're doing the any of the re-release shells.

Perhaps not, if you plan to do an Evo.2 Lancia 037:

ennstal_classic14_0015.jpg

So, about the WR-02 modifications:

I found out that a WR-02 and WR-02C are essentially identical from the rear axle up to the front. The front suspension is where things change - the front suspension arms of the WR-02 get flipped around; new uprights are added to allow use of pin-drive wheels (or even hex adapters); and a special bulkhead extension is added to permit the use of the same shock absorbers.

An adaptation to fit the Lancia shell would just entail a different front body post and a chassis extension. However, the Lancia wheels can be used if the O.R.V. axles and wheel adapters go on the back, and the fronts switch back to a more-common 2WD upright allowing wheels with bearings.

I had a spare set of used C.V. joints to pack into the back. These actually fit the rear uprights well, although the drive cups extend a little further beyond the gearbox than the stock WR-02 pieces. The resulting gap is no larger than those to be found on a Frog or Subaru Brat, though. It can still be done, and the arrangement as found on the Honda City Turbo can be kept, but the plastic spacers would need to be ground down by a millimetre or so to clear the pins on the rear outdrives. Once using the correct wheel adapters, Lancia Rally wheels can fit onto the rear.

The fronts were interesting. I ended up using the plastic spacers on the rear and the front uprights from my WR-02 to get a decent fit. The general idea is outlined below:

n2na0h.jpg

The plastic spacer can also go outside the wheel (represented by the two ball bearings) to reduce the front track width; however I had to back off the wheel nuts just to keep the front wheels rolling. Using the arrangement above allowed the nuts to be properly secured.

We then end up with something like this:

xpy3kj.jpg

The front and rear track are visually identical in this setup. It is better seen here:

xqkhsi.jpg

I am actually not really a fan of equal widths for this particular car, yet I feel it is favourable compared to the wider front track of the original car (even if it really is only 7 mm or so)...

As for the chassis: the picture below illustrates what I did to get the stance for this particular exercise. Note the small scrap of plastic card near the rear gearbox to prop up the front chassis:

2u5ezdc.jpg

To secure it, I am simply matching up screw holes as so:

do4adl.jpg

Of course, side plates to extend the chassis constitute the plan to make a usable version; the methods illustrated are merely for mock-ups.

I understand a company produces side plates for this purpose. They add 40 mm to the wheelbase, and so would not be relevant here for now. They may be useful for other WR-02 conversions, though...

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If you still have those City Turbo wheels and tires would you mind measuring the width of the tires and diameter of the wheels for me? I'm working on a project and would love to know. I hope the wheels are in the 1.9" or 48mm diameter range. That would work great for what i need

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4 hours ago, Killa-Cotton said:

If you still have those City Turbo wheels and tires would you mind measuring the width of the tires and diameter of the wheels for me? I'm working on a project and would love to know. I hope the wheels are in the 1.9" or 48mm diameter range. That would work great for what i need

Of course! With all measurements approximate, tire widths are 36 mm (front) and 42 mm (rear), and wheel diameters are both 46 mm. Total tire diameter is 71 mm. Keep in mind you may require different adapters or longer axles if you plan to use these wheels.

The project is not entirely dead - if reversing the front arms of the WR-02 produces a 15 mm increase in wheelbase, will reversing the rear arms produce another 15 mm? The problem with the latter is that the half-shafts may not be long enough or may bind at such a swept angle (mounted stock, they meet the rear knuckles almost perpendicular to the chassis), but if it can be done, the result will be a 200 mm wheelbase.

Add in Square RC's chassis extension kit, as mentioned earlier, to add 40 mm and we get a 240 mm wheelbase. This would be near-perfect for the Lancia, whose arches and previous suspension geometry prove quite forgiving in terms of wheelbases.

No such allowance exists for the Opel Ascona; 5 mm too short or long looks silly, so that figure must be 215 mm. It may be possible to use spacers and a knife/sanding drum to get another 5 mm out of the front or rear arms (for 170 mm + 5 mm + 40 mm = 215 mm), but would it be worth the effort?

Hmmm; another thread may be due for the sole purpose of discussing rally vehicles on WR-02s...

Edit: TC member Mokei Kagaku confirmed that the rear arms can be flipped as well without too many issues, it seems. However, if doing so adds more than 15 mm to the wheelbase, a Lancia may require more creative manipulation.

 

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On 14 May 2016 at 2:34 PM, Killa-Cotton said:

If you still have those City Turbo wheels and tires would you mind measuring the width of the tires and diameter of the wheels for me? I'm working on a project and would love to know. I hope the wheels are in the 1.9" or 48mm diameter range. That would work great for what i need

I have a set of wheels and adopters if you are looking for wheels

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I spent a lot of quality time with my WR-02C today, with the end result being an effective dismantling of the car. I learned a few things:

- The wheelbase can be extended easily when using suitable plates to lengthen the chassis, but the configuration of the screw holes (and consequently the features of the chassis mouldings) make it difficult to get good suspension geometry. When elongating the chassis by anything less than 40 mm, the front half and the gearbox cannot remain at the same level relative to each other and the ground - an extension does not 'stretch' the chassis lengthwise alone. Some vertical translation of the gearbox is expected; this largely has to do with the clearing of the 540-size motor on the WR-02.

It would be easy to modify a stock chassis moulding by removing specific screw locations, but it is my desire to keep the parts as intact as possible in order to facilitate parts-swapping with other WR-02s and limit my alterations to reversible ones. For me, a large part of the appeal of the project is to be able to use standard unmodified WR-02 parts on the finished car.

- Related to the first point, it is easier to start with a small wheelbase and stretch over 40 mm to make a 215 mm wheelbase than it is to start with a larger one (such as the 185 mm on the WR-02C) and only extend about 30 mm. This is important for an Audi Quattro/Opel Ascona, but for a Lancia Rally conversion about 50 mm has to be coaxed out of the WR-02C anyway, making extending the chassis less complicated. This is likely why after-market companies only offer a wheelbase extension kit of 40 mm.

- Flipping the front and rear arms already extend the wheelbase by 30 mm on a WR-02. The front suspension arm flip is how the Honda City Turbo re-release was possible on a WR-02 derivative, gaining 15 mm of wheelbase to make 185 mm. This means that the rear arms, flipped in the same manner, can yield a 200 mm wheelbase. This was touched upon in the last post, but only today was I able to physically configure a chassis in this manner. The rear dampers require spacers to relocate onto the rear bulkhead, and the dogbone half-shafts must be at least 5 mm longer to allow drive shafts to reach the drive cups in this configuration. It has been done before, though - notably on converted chassis running Lunchbox bodies.

- With the aforementioned modification, a 40 mm wheelbase extension kit with all the required spacers and screws can make a 240 mm wheelbase, which would be just shy if not perfect for a Lancia Rally shell! While again already brought to light, this is a very appealing option for me because while money is short, it is an easier problem to resolve than acquiring the tools and resources needed to produce chassis braces by hand.

Nonetheless, in case I do end up making the parts myself, I made my first Autodesk Inventor project a plate which can be used to extend the WR-02 chassis by 45 mm. It exists only in a drawing made up from hand measurements of dubious quality, but if I did manage to get it right the finished product may resemble the drawing below:

2vt430y.jpg

Of course, credit goes to TC member IBIFTKH for conceiving this idea with a Mitsubishi Montero. His project had much the same premise and objective: to put a more modern/better-performing chassis (which happened to be the WR-02) underneath an otherwise-attractive car.

The 45 mm extension is more suitable for an Opel Ascona/Audi Quattro (170 mm + 45 mm = 215 mm), but with minor revisions it can be changed to 50 mm (185 mm + 50 mm = 235 mm) and therefore be made to use for the Lancia Rally.

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