Anybody else miss MSCs?

[Paulwolf350]

What's to hate about the beach?

[StrokerBoy]

What's to hate about the beach?

Off the top of my head : jellyfish, seagulls, dog eggs, sand, children, sewage.

[Paulwolf350]

Off the top of my head : jellyfish, seagulls, dog eggs, sand, children, sewage.

Haha, I see your point

Paul

[kontemax]

Are the "beach" the easy living girls?

Max

[94eg!]

Don't forget the human waste!

[whahooo]

Please don't post such pictures this is a familyfriendly forum.

Back to topic, i've bad experiences with MSCs on the beach, the mechanics got jammed, the car went off...

[markbt73]

I was thinking about this again a bit today. And I figured out that I do kind of miss having the choice. Even as late as the TL01 days, the MSC was there, in its little bag, and if you wanted to use it, you could. "Hmm, I don't have an extra speed control right now, but I do have a couple servos... what the hey, let's go mechanical!" I miss having that flexibility.

[NWarty]

I'll be running an MSC in my Hornet since I had one lying around. Honestly, with a digital radio, endpoint adjustment and the ability to trim everything out with new Futaba servos, it's actually very smooth. Out of my runners, about half of them have MSC's.

[mongoose1983]

I am not against those who do whatever with whatever they own. Like if you have a MKI Sand Scorcher and want to destroy it with a hammer, so be it. You paid for it, do as you please. It's just that when seeing things like taking out a 30 or 40 year old RC car with a brushless set up, 2.4 radios, and equipped with the latest ESCs I can't help to wonder what's the point in doing so? I can only come up with "they paid for it, they can do as they please".

To me it is not the thing about missing MSCs. I mean, you can always pay dearly for some period orange Novak or some silver Futaba ESCs and keep it all 80's, but the MSC is what these things came with. Myself, I know I'd never spend big $$ in some early 60's Jaguar classic car to fit a modern Asian engine in it to make it go faster or to get a better MPG. Not only that would be anachronistic in a way but by substituting the original parts that make the car go you're pretty much erasing a big part of what RC was in the late 70's and 80's decades. I remember running my car with the original MSC and never had a problem with it, and I'm not special in any way. My cousin did the same, and no issues whatsoever!

If you remove the MSC from, say, a Sand Rover from 1980 to fit a modern ESC you'll be taking an important part of what the car and the experience of running it really was. A vintage RC car without one of the original parts is not original anymore, and one could even say you're taking the soul out of it. I'm not saying what you guys should do, I'm just saying how do I feel about the subject, nothing else. I basically do this to go back in time and enjoy the cars I could not have back in the day the way I would have done it back then. Now of course I do understand we all have different reasons to be surrounded by these old RC cars, don't we?

[Scorpn]

In the late eighties, tamiya brought out the CPR esc/receiver units, these were shown in the manuals and the MSC were an add on, shown after the CPR page, but the CPR never came with the cars so which is correct? The manual or what you received? Clearly Tamiya had their preference as to what should be in the car but they bowed out to the extra cost of the CPR.

(Not to do with the original topic but:- The Avante was designed specifically for the CPR units to be used and most normal ESC/Receiver combos at the time would not fit unless you removed the driver, but how many people have a CPR unit in their Avante?)

Also the M03/TL01 series and many cars of that age

originally came with a MSC but later versions came with an ESC so again which is correct?

[Sayer]

Could never afford a real hobby grade RC car when MSCs were ubiquitous, but I was excited to see how one worked when I got one in a second hand King Cab...and then it only had 3 speeds (one more than my Aero Hopper) and had a tendency to need chasing down frantically when the battery got too low - in direct contrast to my ESC equipped TLT (and again, my toy grade Aero Hopper). After that I never looked back. It's strange to me to see this affection for what amounts to inferior technology when I remember that in their heyday racers would absolutely have discarded them for ESCs in a heartbeat if they'd had the money. Every magazine I ever read touted "graphite chassis" and "electronic speed controllers" as the state of the art, much desired, top of the line kit.

I'm likewise not nostalgic for bushings or servos affixed with tape.

[MAD RACER]

For me I left MSC's way back in the 80's ( at a vast expensive back then)

I hate MSC,s but they do have a place in the development of motor control .

To me the basic esc for brushed motors are dirt cheap . Tamiya have included them in their kits for the past few years now.

Now they include a Brushless/ Brushed esc now. Their is enough of things too go wrong with a r/c car how it is having a esc is just one less thing to go wrong ( normally).

Just my thoughts.

[GregM]

Since electronic speed controllers aren't supplied with Tamiya kits in Japan, but packed in by the US and European distributors (maybe the Australian one too?), there is a ESC sticker on the export kit boxes. It is clear to see that Tamiya Japan deliberately leaves it to the customer to what speed controller device he'd like to use.

Have mechanical speed controllers been packed with Tamiya kits in Japan? Since even the older MSC-supplied kits had MSC stickers on them when sold in US/EU/AUS, I make the assumption that MSCs were an export-only thing.

So it might be that many of those vintage kits weren't as strictly intended to be used with Tamiya's MSCs as some of you may think.

[Hibernaculum]

In the late eighties, tamiya brought out the CPR esc/receiver units, these were shown in the manuals and the MSC were an add on, shown after the CPR page, but the CPR never came with the cars so which is correct? The manual or what you received?

For me, what came in the kit is the default, standard build, and therefore the most kit-original way to enjoy your car.

Things like CPR units that were shown in manuals, and BEC units, and other things - they were like an upgrade. And like any other hop-up, optional. Doesn't make them "wrong", but simply optional and not the kit default. So, totally up to the builder to go back to the store and purchase, if they want to.

Personally, I like kit-default builds, because:

- it's how the majority of average owners enjoyed their car. Not everyone. But most ordinary people just built it and ran it with the kit default equipment.

- it's how the car was displayed in the catalogue photos (which I loved so much).

Clearly Tamiya had their preference as to what should be in the car but they bowed out to the extra cost of the CPR.

I don't really see why this indicates Tamiya's preference. It's like saying all hop-ups must be Tamiya's "preferred build".

The default build is what it is - the default setup to get your model up and running. Sure it goes better if you upgrade it. But I don't think Tamiya prefers what the builder chooses to do, one way or another.

I am sure Tamiya would have wanted you to go out and buy every upgrade. Because that would simply make them more money

Could never afford a real hobby grade RC car when MSCs were ubiquitous, but I was excited to see how one worked when I got one in a second hand King Cab...and then it only had 3 speeds (one more than my Aero Hopper) and had a tendency to need chasing down frantically when the battery got too low - in direct contrast to my ESC equipped TLT (and again, my toy grade Aero Hopper). After that I never looked back. It's strange to me to see this affection for what amounts to inferior technology when I remember that in their heyday racers would absolutely have discarded them for ESCs in a heartbeat if they'd had the money. Every magazine I ever read touted "graphite chassis" and "electronic speed controllers" as the state of the art, much desired, top of the line kit.

I'm likewise not nostalgic for bushings or servos affixed with tape.

You know I'm completely on your side with the appreciation for Tyco, and toys like the Aero Hopper.

But the humble beginnings of R/C (and that includes bushings and servos affixed with tape) were what they were - basic solutions to early problems. A moment in time. They were the equivalent of the rough beginnings of the real car world, where early cars had no windows (or doors), and engines needed to be cranked into life at the bonnet, before you ran and hopped back into the vehicle.

I'd hate to have stand in the rain and crank my car to start it, before sitting in it.

But I actually love that that's the way it used to be done. I appreciate it. I am nostalgic for it.

Plus, to love Aero Hoppers, yet dismiss the rough edges of early Tamiya, seems a bit contradictory.

Pop open the transmitter on your Aero Hopper. You will find vintage sliding contact points for the levers. They are the exact same thing as any Tamiya MSC. They even came pre-greased, making them highly prone to gunk build up - leading to the complete disabling of the vehicle (until the transmitter was taken apart and cleaned). I must have done this on 10 used Jet Hoppers in the past year alone

Have mechanical speed controllers been packed with Tamiya kits in Japan? Since even the older MSC-supplied kits had MSC stickers on them when sold in US/EU/AUS, I make the assumption that MSCs were an export-only thing. So it might be that many of those vintage kits weren't as strictly intended to be used with Tamiya's MSCs as some of you may think.

Have you ever seen a vintage NIB kit? The MSCs are inside blisters.

I think it's safe to say they were made by Tamiya, packed by Tamiya in Japan, intended for use, and the default build setup for all vintage Tamiyas in the 1980s (with only a couple of exceptions).

[Sayer]

I'd hate to have stand in the rain and crank my car to start it, before sitting in it.

But I actually love that that's the way it used to be done. I appreciate it. I am nostalgic for it.

Plus, to love Aero Hoppers, yet dismiss the rough edges of early Tamiya, seems a bit contradictory.

Pop open the transmitter on your Aero Hopper. You will find vintage sliding contact points for the levers. They are the exact same thing as any Tamiya MSC. They even came pre-greased, making them highly prone to gunk build up - leading to the complete disabling of the vehicle (until the transmitter was taken apart and cleaned). I must have done this on 10 used Jet Hoppers in the past year alone

My point was that while you appreciate the technology and understand the raw chewing gum and twine reasons for it, you're unlikely to be nostalgic for standing in the rain. Additionally, the people who had to do it because it was a fact of life weren't big fans of it either. They didn't <i>love</i> the fact that hey had a direct hands-on connection to the internal workings of an engine, it was just how you started a car, and your options were to stand in the rain cranking, or else give up on whatever your plans were that day.

Perhaps it was badly worded, but my problem(?) with MSCs isn't that they're icky old tech, it's that they're worse performers. Before I ever bought that Tyco, I'd had reams of Radio Shack (Tandy) RC cars that couldn't handle carpet - free floating front wheels and skid steering the lot of them. And while I may be nostalgic for them due to the time in my life they represent, I certainly don't miss their abysmal performance. I didn't miss fiddling with and charging 8 AA batteries 4 at a time (overnight for each batch) when Tyco came out with their 9.6v packs. And I certainly don't charge those same packs today with their 4 hour "quick charger" because nostalgia. They make for great "back in my day" stories, but I don't remember anyone enjoying waiting 2 days to run their car for 15-20min back in the actual "day".

We've obviously had different Tyco controller experiences, since I've never run into the gunk issue you describe and I've still got my original Tyco Blaster in working order (the Aero Hopper didn't survive - there's a story about me narrowly missing a cousin with a thrown Captain Power Jet in there) and several Bandits, so my experience is that old tech or not, they worked well. I'd be quite a bit less enthusiastic if when that 9v battery got low on power, they had a tendency to send my, at the time, expensive and not easily replaced buggy careening into the nearest curb.

[berman]

My Clod buster, bullhead, juggernaut, txt-1, kyosho usa-1, boomerang, monster beetle, bruiser, midnight pumpkin, all still run MSC's. I've never had an issue with MSC's, sure the old flat battery run away was a pain when you were younger but most people would be old and wise enough nowadays to stop driving before the battery got that flat with their vintage model. Regular maintenance never saw me have any issue's.

When I was younger maintenance of an msc was part in parcel to wiping the old contaminated grease off my axles and bushings and regreasing after every run. It taught me to respect my models and that looking after them prolonged their lifespan.

This has also been rammed into my head by my parents (who coincidently never bought me an rc) to "look after what you have, as you may not get it again".

I have used this role model throughout my life with everything I own, so if that's the case, then thank you msc's.

[Sayer]

Terribly sorry, what I meant to say was: "Yay! MSCs are the best!"

(My previous post was just an elaborate series of typos)

[berman]

Were you typing repeatedly with your forehead?

No thanks I will take my esc's

I am suprised someone into 70's 1:1 like yourself hates msc's but is quite happy playing with points gaps, condensors, carburetors, mechanical timing etc etc on a daily basis.

[Nobbi1977]

Were you typing repeatedly with your forehead?

I am suprised someone into 70's 1:1 like yourself hates msc's but is quite happy playing with points gaps, condensors, carburetors, mechanical timing etc etc on a daily basis.

I play with 50's British Bikes and dynomag is like the MSC. A direct swap out with an electronic ignition is easy, cheapish and makes the bike better in most cases. It divides opinion the same though, some like the fiddling days and some just like to ride.

Carburettors and other bits are not an easy or cheap swap out for modern stuff so they are in a different league.

[GregM]

Have you ever seen a vintage NIB kit? The MSCs are inside blisters.

Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know that.

For those kits where the mechanical or electronic speed controllers are just in a separate plastic bag, I think it's safe to assume they've been added afterwards by the distributor. Please see also:

Are there any differences between the kits sold in the USA with kits in Japan?

Yes, but they're subtle. First off, the manuals are country specific with respect to the language. Next, depending on the local distributor, Tamiya sometimes includes a mechanical speed controller with their kits that otherwise would not have been included. In fact, in some markets know, Tamiya offers a basic electronic speed control.

For example, you'll find that a lot of Tamiya kits in the US carries a bright sticker that says "three speed forward and reverse controller included". This has been added in after the fact. Tamiya of USA realized that their kits were being purchased by beginners and it was critical to keep their price point at a reasonable level.

Source: http://www.blackholesun.fr/en/classic-tamiya-rc/80-contact-us

[Hibernaculum]

Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know that.

For those kits where the mechanical or electronic speed controllers are just in a separate plastic bag, I think it's safe to assume they've been added afterwards by the distributor. Please see also:

Source: http://www.blackholesun.fr/en/classic-tamiya-rc/80-contact-us

I guess this is true for some kits from, say, the mid-late 1990s onwards, when MSC use was being phased out.

But yeah, for anything vintage and (I'm going to call that pre-1995) - there is no difference between the parts in Japanese vs Worldwide kits, nor the way parts are packaged. All included MSCs as standard components, under blisters. The only differences I am aware of between vintage kits, across different countries, related to "paperwork items". Things like the box writing (extra Japanese writing on Japanese kits, distributor names like "Riko" on some UK kits, etc), manual language, included paperwork (US kits came with loads of little flyers and cards and sometimes even mini MRC catalogues, while Japanese kits came with Japanese flyers and bits), and other minor things.

On a related note, I have also seen some people say that for vintage Kyosho kits, the included parts were changed when those kits were sold as Cox/Kyosho kits in the USA. Examples I have heard have been that the damper size and MSC type were different in Cox/Kyosho Tomahawk kits sold in the USA vs the Kyosho Tomahawk kits sold in Japan. But in my experience this is untrue. Variants of that kit did occur. But they were not distinct to particular countries. That is to say, Kyosho Tomahawk kits sold in Japan carried both small and large damper types. And the Cox ones probably did too.