WTH Kyosho: why is everything an Ultima?

[beefmuffin 1156]

Does anyone know why Kyosho couldn't think of any name other than "Ultima" for, like, 1/3rd of all their models??

Why am I getting THIS as a legitimate result when I'm looking for this?:

Apparently, this doesn't even cover it:

[Klausen 1197]

Ultima kind of suits this serie of buggies pretty good, kind of the 911 serie from Porsche

[beefmuffin 1156]

Ultima kind of suits this serie of buggies pretty good, kind of the 911 serie from Porsche

LOL, except Porsche never released a 911 SUV, and the whole point of the 911 series is to maintain the same aesthetic.

[MadInventor 3884]

Kyosho are following Supermarines' example, who released 24 marks of Spitfire, with the final version having almost no common parts with the mk1

[Klausen 1197]

LOL, except Porsche never released a 911 SUV, and the whole point of the 911 series is to maintain the same aesthetic.

You got a point, maybe Kyoshos not that good at coming up with new names.

Great pics of the Porsche's.

[TWINSET 1793]

Doesn't Ultima just mean it's 2WD?

[kontemax 1725]

"Ultima" is an Italian word, feminine, singular and means "last one".

Max

[pizzachaude 130]

Dont't forget the Kyosho scale series, all Ultima based so there's another 5 or 6 cars. And there's also the Outrage which was a beginner's Ultima. But I do so love the Ultima series!

[kontemax 1725]

But they don't believe in their own choices. The "last one" and, at the end, there's always another one!

Max

"Ultima" is an Italian word, feminine, singular and means "last one".

Max

[Sayer 742]

This is Kyosho's joint. Everything is also an Optima or Inferno - with the addition of "turbo" or "mid"

[beefmuffin 1156]

This is Kyosho's joint. Everything is also an Optima or Inferno - with the addition of "turbo" or "mid"

Imagine how lame it would be it Tamiya named all its 4wd buggies based on the Hotshot and Thundershot gearboxes some variant of the name Hotshot. The Hotshot, Hotshot II, Hotshot SP, Hotshot BW, Hotshot BM, Hotshot SS, Hotshot TS, Hotshot TD, Hotshot FD, Hotshot TE... LAME!

It's crazy because it isn't like all the bodies were identical. Kyosho just didn't recognize the value in imparting a little identity and character into their buggies the way Tamiya did. The Bigwig has personality but isn't really so drastically different than the Supershot or Boomerang. No more so than the drastic differences between Ultima models.

Forget about Traxxas and the like... they've abandoned even the concept of personality and individual character in their offerings. It's just performance and nothing else. But we're adults who can drive real cars! The most hardcore R/C is still nothing in relative performance to the real thing... so throwing away any semblance of individuality / creativity / personality is just sad. That's why modern Traxxas stuff bores me beyond belief. The Kyosho re-releases are way more interesting than their modern stuff despite not embracing the personality thing as much as Tamiya.

The Blackfoot, Lunchbox, Monster Beetle, Bigwig, Hotshot, Boomerang, etc - I have an emotional attachment rooted in their unique personalities.

[Sayer 742]

Eh, it was annoying when I was trying to get a hold of the Optimas and recently when I was trying to get parts for the Burns (turbo Burns and Burns DX make things difficult) but I'm more interested in the design of the cars themselves than what Kyosho decided to call them.

I'm a bigger fan of their buggies though because that's where they seem to have been doing their best work back in the day. The on road and monster truck stuff always came across as crude, worse detailed versions of Tamiya's offerings.

[Wooders28 4723]

Kind of with you on that.

I can see the reason for the first couple,the turbo had better suspension than the ultima (but for some reason went for a body that didn't fit the chassis,imo), but essentially the same,the pro then had better suspension and chassis etc.If the name had stopped there that would be fine.

Saying that, I like my RB5 (not as much as my original ultima though), but I don't look at it as an ultima, just an kyosho RB5.

[GregM 1109]

If you think Kyosho has a tendency for uninspired naming, what do you guys think of Team Associated's RC10?

[Champ85 609]

I totally get what you all mean on all fronts posted above.

I think it's because the "Ultima" name has (or had) weight due to world championships won by that chassis. A tweak there, a change here and voila.. the Ultima-based truck! Buyers think, "Oh it's an Ultima so it must be awesome!"

Same for the RC10. The RC10T is the truck version of the RC10 so buyers think (or know) that the chassis has the same design heritage as the original chassis (even if the reality of it is that only a few parts are shared with the original chassis like the hinge pins).

The name has meaning and apparently they (the manufacturer/marketers) think that it is more important to keep the recognizable (almost brand) name than introduce a new name that buyers won't recognize (and therefore won't sell as well as a result).

I'm glad Tamiya spends time thinking up unique names for each model even when it is an incremental improvement over the previous chassis or just a body change. But ultimately (oh yes I went there!) I think it boils down to Kyosho being more interested in designing racing vehicles (for the most part) and Tamiya designing for all ages and modelers. Racers don't care about model names for the most part - they just want to win races. Whether it's an Ultima RB6 or Ultima ST or Ultima SC doesn't matter. Modelers and kids, on the other hand, like unique names for things because it gives the model more character (I won't say soul) and easier recognition of what it is.

While on the topic of model names, I will say that I don't like manufacturers re-using old model names. For example, the Aarma Raider. To me, the Kyosho Raider is the only Raider I will recognize as the Raider. Bad choice, Aarma.

[Saito2 6686]

It seems creative naming and styling is in opposition with competitive edge. The companies with competition in mind like AE, Losi, or Kyosho stick with one name and then build on it like it's a racing heritage. For Tamiya each vehicle is an expression of creativity designed to stimulate the mind through interesting names, decals and themes. However, notice when Tamiya goes racing, they use bland alpha-numeric names like other companies. Once you go back down to "sport" or fun level vehicles like the Dark Impact or Rising Fighter, the names return.

[markbt73 5315]

On the other hand, Ford has made a car called Mustang for 50+ years now, with the current car sharing no parts and only a passing similarity to the original, and nobody complains...

[Zac_F83 117]

The original RC10 and RC10T - share all the same parts, except the arms, turnbuckles, wheel/tires, front shocks, front shock tower, front bulkhead/bumper, and body mounts everything else including the chassis is the same (except chassis color was changed from the buggies Gold to the trucks Black)

[Scorpn 18]

Does anyone know why Kyosho couldn't think of any name other than "Ultima" for, like, 1/3rd of all their models??

Why am I getting THIS as a legitimate result when I'm looking for this?:

Apparently, this doesn't even cover it:

I get it.

Kyosho called their competition 2WD buggies Ultimas after they won the 87 world champs. The Triumph and Pro-X were never that popular, so Kyosho clearly went back to a popular name cashing in on their history.

The first and second series of Ultimas used the same gearbox servo saver, steering and suspension arms (the black pro had long arms) so they were all variations of the same basic architecture, the first series were SWB while the second series were LWB.

Ultima Trucks are like the RC10T series, based originally on the LWB Ultima II series.

As for the RB - Racing Buggy perhaps?

They did the same with the Lazer, going to the Lazer ZX5, clearly the Optima did not cut the mustard!

The Sideways in the above pic is out of place - needs to go with the scale series cars and the Ultima II Green is actually a Turbo Ultima II (probably the rarest of all Ultimas)

[markbt73 5315]

Kyosho called their competition 2WD buggies Ultimas after they won the 87 world champs.

Actually, in an act of swaggering bravado, they called the Ultima "The Next World Champion" in advertisements before the race had even taken place. Though if they had been wrong, I doubt the name would have been as long-lived...

[pizzachaude 130]

Well they also called the Triumph ''The next world champion'', and I dont think it won any major events. So that would support Mark's theory

[beefmuffin 1156]

Very excited about this auction I just won! Takes care of new wheels, MSC, original body, original decals, and combined with my existing Ultima stuff I'm sure I will make back the price paid with the auction for the parts lot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331743950104

ps - the description was... interesting... ?

"1986 ultima, I no it ran very good years ago when I played with it. the batterys are no good now and im threw with it so im going to sell it. it was working good then, now it needs new batterys. thers a lot of new parts and a big charger and two bodies. what you see is what you get.i think with new batterys it should be a grate car again. it even has the put it togeather book. usa bidders only, ill mail the same day sold. thanks"

[Wooders28 4723]

Very excited about this auction I just won! Takes care of new wheels, MSC, original body, original decals, and combined with my existing Ultima stuff I'm sure I will make back the price paid with the auction for the parts lot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331743950104

Nice example,fantastic find and a fantastic price!