Fitting Pintopower's no-need-for-a-3rd-shock-mod transmission retainer

[GregM]

Shen, yeah you said Hoppers, but a real DT-01?

[shenlonco]

Shen, yeah you said Hoppers, but a real DT-01?

Hi it Don't matter what rc it is all I know is on any of these chassis with the side slide slots the suspension works best when the front of the gearbox is held down as far as possible while still letting the axle swing side to side up and down.

and these printed parts are only improving it half way not to it's fullest due to how high they are positioning the front gearbox mounts in the slots.

[GregM]

Oh well, that means you haven't yet experienced how beautifully well the simple DT-01 rear suspension works. I guess you should do yourself a favor and build one someday. Or at least we should provide you some sketches to show you why it works so good, and how it applies to Pintopower's custom part. Deal?

[XV Pilot]

Hi it Don't matter what rc it is all I know is on any of these chassis with the side slide slots the suspension works best when the front of the gearbox is held down as far as possible while still letting the axle swing side to side up and down.and these printed parts are only improving it half way not to it's fullest due to how high they are positioning the front gearbox mounts in the slots.

Maybe I am missing something, but as far as I can see, you can't have it both ways.

If the central pivot point is to allow full twisting articulation of the rear suspension, it has to locate the shaft halfway up the slots when at rest because maximum articulation is achieved when one side of the shaft is at the top of its slot and the other side is at the bottom.

If the central pivot point is to locate the shaft towards the bottom of the slots when at rest, it reduces twisting articulation of the rear suspension as when one side of the shaft is at the bottom of its slot, the other side would be prevented from reaching the top of its slot by the central pivot.

By insisting that the best arrangement is to have the central pivot point lower down, are you arguing that the Hornet platform benefits from reduced twisting articulation of the rear suspension?

[Terz1]

^ thats exactly what I was writing. It needs to be were it is for maximum articulation side to side. Held lower down it would lose this. Also the shocks pivot and their angle isn't changed greatly when it's held in this central position.

I think pinto came up with a good solution.

[shenlonco]

Sorry but I fiddled with this type of suspension a lot and it works best positioned as far down in the side slots but with just enough up play to still let the axle twist.

In fact a simple piece of fishing string works best & you can see in my video the axle still twists also!

[GregM]

(...)Or at least we should provide you some sketches to show you why it works so good, and how it applies to Pintopower's custom part. Deal?

Even better, here's a video showing how the DT-01 pivoting gearbox works:

(from the beginning of the video up to 1:30)

Igoring the almost horizontally positioned rear dampers, this achieves pretty much the same effect as Pintopower's Hornet transmission retainer. In both cases, there are no more springs in the side slots. When Jang speaks about spring-loaded slides, he's talking about the original Hornet, not the DT-01.

With such a setup, you can't and don't need to drop the gearbox down to the bottom in the side slots. It's impossible, since that would be one step back into a simple Grasshopper I style rear end.

[Wooders28]

Here we go:

http://www.shapeways.com/product/RHD88KMMX/hornet-transmission-retainer-with-no-trans-tab?li=shareProduct

Pintopower also has other Hornet upgrades available from Shapeways. Here is a link to his thread on the subject:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=79012

Thanks for the links,

For some reason I presumed,Pintopower,was in the UK! (pinto engines,from the escort/Sierra rally days!)

[shenlonco]

Even better, here's a video showing how the DT-01 pivoting gearbox works:

(from the beginning of the video up to 1:30)

Igoring the almost horizontally positioned rear dampers, this achieves pretty much the same effect as Pintopower's Hornet transmission retainer. In both cases, there are no more springs in the side slots. When Jang speaks about spring-loaded slides, he's talking about the original Hornet, not the DT-01.

With such a setup, you can't and don't need to drop the gearbox down to the bottom in the side slots. It's impossible, since that would be one step back into a simple Grasshopper I style rear end.

Hi the simple string mod works the same No springs in the side slots and Holds down the front of the gearbox as low as possible for better suspension action.

simply try this push the front of the gearbox all the way up in the side slots with your finger with the car on the ground and push the top of the cars rear down and then do the same when holding the front of the gearbox all the way in it's down position.

I found it works best this way in a stock chassis with this mod.

[XV Pilot]

Hmm. I can see why you believe the way you do based on your experiences with fishing line and CW-01s, since the line goes slacker as the suspension compresses, allowing full articulation. However the same principles don't apply to a buggy with a fixed central pivot.

I can't claim any experience with CW-01s, but I have built plenty of Hornet-style buggies, and I know that the DT-01 is the best-handling of the bunch. Pintopower's solution makes the Hornet rear end behave like that of the DT-01, which is spot-on in my book.

[shenlonco]

Hmm. I can see why you believe the way you do based on your experiences with fishing line and CW-01s, since the line goes slacker as the suspension compresses, allowing full articulation. However the same principles don't apply to a buggy with a fixed central pivot.

I can't claim any experience with CW-01s, but I have built plenty of Hornet-style buggies, and I know that the DT-01 is the best-handling of the bunch. Pintopower's solution makes the Hornet rear end behave like that of the DT-01, which is spot-on in my book.

Hi XV I also do the string on my hornets also and it works great!

[Pintopower]

Sorry but I fiddled with this type of suspension a lot and it works best positioned as far down in the side slots but with just enough up play to still let the axle twist.

In fact a simple piece of fishing string works best & you can see in my video the axle still twists also!

I think I see what you are saying but it appears you are using the string and the 3rd shock in tandem? The design I have locks the trans in place but provides all of the swing that you are talking about, there is no loss of articulation. I see your design allows the central point to move. Mine does not. If I had placed my mount at the base, the transmission would have no play at all.

Thanks for the links,

For some reason I presumed,Pintopower,was in the UK! (pinto engines,from the escort/Sierra rally days!)

That's exactly right!

[shenlonco]

I think I see what you are saying but it appears you are using the string and the 3rd shock in tandem? The design I have locks the trans in place but provides all of the swing that you are talking about, there is no loss of articulation. I see your design allows the central point to move. Mine does not. If I had placed my mount at the base, the transmission would have no play at all.

That's exactly right!

Mine don't move it holds the front of the gearbox down all the way but letting it swing fully side to side twist...I have the 3rd shock on because I had them on first but the string works better you can use only the string without a 3rd shock.

You say yours holds down the gearbox at the front all the way possible but from the photos I can see it holds it lifted up a lot higher in the side slots, the string works best because you can strap it down all the way in the down position but it will still flex fully side to side because the string twists and flexes unlike a solid hard fixed section.

when you use a string when you floor it the gearbox stays down in the front pivot all the way and when your hitting bumps the sting will allow the gearbox to twist and another BIG benefit of the string over a fixed pivot section like the plastic locker is that when you do a big jump and land the string will allow the whole rear to push up and compress the rear shocks and push up into the high position in the side slots also to make the whole rear act like a suspension like how it supposed to work to absorb impact from a high jump and with the fixed pivot your rear shocks only compress losing the front gearbox up travel to help cushion the jumps impact.

string = fully lock down in the front and fully flexing twist side to side action plus full up travel of the whole gearbox solid plastic section or rod = can't do it.

[XV Pilot]

I take it that you consider allowing the gearbox to move up at the front when the suspension is compressed to be a good thing? If so, I'm not sure that I agree.

A standard Hornet gearbox attachment allows the front of the gearbox to move up and down as the suspension is compressed and extended, and as you correctly point out, your string mod preserves this ability. However while the movement of the rear of the gearbox is damped by oil dampers, this movement of the front is not. This undamped movement appears to contribute to bounciness, as when it is locked out by a central pivot, all gearbox movement is damped by the oil dampers, and the car feels more stable and planted as a result.

So yes, I agree that the string mod allows the front of the gearbox to move up and down, while the central pivot does not. However in my experience, both with my DT-01 and now with my Hornets, this is a point in favour of the central pivot, not a drawback.

[shenlonco]

I take it that you consider allowing the gearbox to move up at the front when the suspension is compressed to be a good thing? If so, I'm not sure that I agree.

A standard Hornet gearbox attachment allows the front of the gearbox to move up and down as the suspension is compressed and extended, and as you correctly point out, your string mod preserves this ability. However while the movement of the rear of the gearbox is damped by oil dampers, this movement of the front is not. This undamped movement appears to contribute to bounciness, as when it is locked out by a central pivot, all gearbox movement is damped by the oil dampers, and the car feels more stable and planted as a result.

So yes, I agree that the string mod allows the front of the gearbox to move up and down, while the central pivot does not. However in my experience, both with my DT-01 and now with my Hornets, this is a point in favour of the central pivot, not a drawback.

I beg to differ... I will leave it at that I know for me what worked best I actually beat on my tamiyas and bash them and I found out the string method is best.... see my youtube videos my lunch box gets bashed I don't ride it making it look pretty on smooth sand.

[XV Pilot]

I think we might have to agree to disagree on this point then.

If you are happy with your string mod, good for you. I'm glad that you found a solution that pleases you and makes your cars handle the way you want them to.

As for me, I am very happy with Pintopower's transmission retainer mod as it makes my Hornets handle the way I want them to, namely much like my DT-01.

[GregM]

Guys, lets have a beer* and agree that both methods are pretty neat. They get their job done in their own ways.

*Oh yeah, I'm having one RIGHT NOW!

God bless Friday night.

[Nobbi1977]

Guys, lets have a beer* and agree that both methods are pretty neat. They get their job done in their own ways.

*Oh yeah, I'm having one RIGHT NOW!

God bless Friday night.

Sounds good. This thread is about Pintos mod. There is already one on the string mod and every other Hornet mod.

[shenlonco]

Ok here is the string method in action and my lunch box has NO shocks at all and it's cold out also.

[Pintopower]

Hi guys, I have taken your advice and am working on the mount for the cw01. I don't know why I haven't done this already but after a test fit print I'll let you know how it work. As before it will hold the trans in a central location thusly allowing full articulating with zero irritating slap. I have been listening to that annoying sound since 1989. Here's to silence!

[XV Pilot]

Good news! Rising Fighter next perhaps?

[Nobbi1977]

It almost makes me want to get the hornet out the loft and buy a lunchbox.

Maybe Christmas :-)

[Pintopower]

Good news! Rising Fighter next perhaps?

Uhgggggg! If any car on earth needs that it is the RF and the SuperHornet. Yeah I guess I should do those disasters too.

It almost makes me want to get the hornet out the loft and buy a lunchbox.

Maybe Christmas :-)

I thought people are born with those cars?

[Pintopower]

Printing this tomorrow. Lavender is the foundation of the lower plate, grey is the mount.

[Pintopower]

Hmmm, a lot smaller than I thought. Kind of anticlimactic. Installing tonight.