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Bigwig value

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Yeah Rob, you are probably correct in what you say there...but I still think the prices that some of these are fetching are bonkers....and the descriptions that the sellers are giving are somewhat, shall we say, optimistic?

Consider this one... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Tamiya-Bigwig-With-Acoms-Techniplus-/182013225651?hash=item2a60d56ab3%3Ag%3AYO4AAOSwFqJWs1qy&nma=true&si=3ckQNkwhftnJEyi3o0l0nz7C8AM%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 ...the seller reckons it has only been "lightly" used. Ahem, check out photo number 5....and it "sold" for £387. Without a Technigold fitted either. :blink:

Call me cynical, but I think that a fair bit of shill bidding went on in that one. And I notice that no feedback was ever left for the seller. Hmmm.....

I agree that Bigwig was a high price, for a used example missing the Technigold ;)

Used vintage cars vastly outnumber NIB vintage kits, making it a little easier to work out an expected price. But then you have the variables of condition, and people's build standards. I look at that Bigwig, and see a reasonable build, and a moderately used car.

But since it's relatively clean and in the correct colours, I know for a fact that some people would look at that car and go "Wow! It looks like new!".

They're probably not TC members. But that's the thing... so many people in the world. Different expectations. What's the world's population these days? 7 billion? I know I get at least one email per day from someone hunting for vintage R/C cars, yet who has (seemingly) never even heard of Tamiyaclub.com. They just jump onto Google one day and go "I used to have an RC car... now what was it called...oh I'll write to this guy..."

Re: Shill bidding...

Nobody really knows I guess. But... I suspect it happens less than we think due to fear of detection, because people generally know they are being watched online these days. Many that try will be caught by eBay via IP address and behaviour patterns, unless they are particularly sophisticated about it. And even if you are sophisticated, it's probably not a smart move to have a great feedback level of 1366 + 100% positive (as in the case of that Bigwig), which has been built up over many years, then risk losing it all. eBay will instantly ban all the accounts involved when people are caught.

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Yeah Rob, you are probably correct in what you say there...but I still think the prices that some of these are fetching are bonkers....and the descriptions that the sellers are giving are somewhat, shall we say, optimistic?

Consider this one... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Tamiya-Bigwig-With-Acoms-Techniplus-/182013225651?hash=item2a60d56ab3%3Ag%3AYO4AAOSwFqJWs1qy&nma=true&si=3ckQNkwhftnJEyi3o0l0nz7C8AM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 ...the seller reckons it has only been "lightly" used. Ahem, check out photo number 5....and it "sold" for £387. Without a Technigold fitted either. :blink:

Call me cynical, but I think that a fair bit of shill bidding went on in that one. And I notice that no feedback was ever left for the seller. Hmmm.....

Wow 387GBP is huge, the buggy does look good though, its the clean box art look that is fetching the big prices. To put things in perspective I sold my NIB Bigwig last year for around 425GBP, incredible 38GBP difference between this 'runner' and my NIB. WOW.

I think you're right Andy with the shill bidding, it's happening everywhere and is artificially increasing the perceived value of vintage kits. The Super Hornet I'm mostly shocked about, In Australia I've seen them go for over 150 GBP for a runner....really?? A super hornet?

It's unfortunately happening in this hobby, where you get fake bids and wins that change the perception of value of the car/kit. Bit shady to me.

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But if shill bidding is everywhere, driving prices up, then people on TC who win auctions must be experiencing the following situations every week:

  • Being outbid on auctions, only to become the top bidder again before the auction ends (due to the shill bidder withdrawing their bid).
  • Receiving "second chance offers" after the auction ends, due to the winner being the shill bidder.

Is that something you guys are experiencing a lot?

Strong values for the Super Hornet are nothing new actually - there has always been a lot of support for this model, particularly in Australia. So much so that Tamiya actually kept production of the kit going for several additional years (in the mid 2000s) just to serve the demand in Australia, when the kit had been discontinued everywhere else in the world. This is a confirmed fact. The kit was eventually discontinued here too, and since then, demand has still bubbled along - there are always people who want them. I think the Super Hornet was one of the last original buggies to experience the sort of strong early popularity that leads to significant, widespread nostalgia years later.

I do agree Max that it's the clean, box-art look that people always (and always will) value the most.

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But if shill bidding is everywhere, driving prices up, then people on TC who win auctions must be experiencing the following situations every week:

  • Being outbid on auctions, only to become the top bidder again before the auction ends (due to the shill bidder withdrawing their bid).
  • Receiving "second chance offers" after the auction ends, due to the winner being the shill bidder.

Is that something you guys are experiencing a lot?

I think the second chance offer thing happens more often than a top bidder withdrawing their bid. But from what I have watched on ebay I think sellers more often simply get friends and/or family to bump up the price to a high level and if one of those people actually win the auction then the seller simply writes the sale off, lies low for a while and then relists the item some weeks or months later. Hence why that Bigwig auction has no buyer or seller feedback from the sale. No way do I believe that someone actually paid £387 for a quite tatty Bigwig without the all important Technigold.

I don't really buy into the idea either that some sellers list these buggies without any knowledge of TamiyaClub and the related sites. It literally only takes a few minutes of googling to get enough research information that will inform someone that these things can go for big money.

Another hobby/passion of mine is the trainer/sneaker collecting game and this false bidding thing happens regularly on ebay. The only difference is that the sellers don't seem to be too bright as they simply relist the same pair of sneakers almost immediately after the auction ends...like, a day or two later....over and over again, even though someone "wins" the auction each time. Eventually, they just give up and the items are never seen again. :lol:

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But from what I have watched on ebay I think sellers more often simply get friends and/or family to bump up the price to a high level and if one of those people actually win the auction then the seller simply writes the sale off, lies low for a while and then relists the item some weeks or months later.

But see, that would mean the seller made no money from the sale, yet has to pay 10% in final value fees + 10% of the shipping, out of their own pocket. All for nothing...

Either they do that, or they go through the motions of opening an "eBay dispute" - then wait for eBay to resolve the matter in their favour, and cancel the sale.

But then their friend or family member (the shill bidder) will get slugged with an unpaid item strike, which may impede their ability to bid/buy in future.

Is it really worth going through all that trouble, and not even make a sale, purely to "put on a show" by fake-bidding something up to a high price?

I just don't see why anyone would bother :P

I believe shill bidding is only worth someone doing, if they actually sell the item in the end. So like I was saying - for this to be happening regularly, a lot of vintage R/C buyers should be having situations where they are either being bumped up to top-bid at the last minute (because other bidders are withdrawing their bids), or they are being sent second-chance offers.

And I don't think those situations are particularly widespread either (but I'd be keen to hear if they are).

Personally I gave up on selling anything under bidding auction, about 6 years ago, as have most sellers. As a seller, there's just no point. If you can logically conceive of a price point below which you would be unhappy to sell your item, then simply choose a price above that and list the item for buy-it-now. If it doesn't sell, you can always reduce the price.

eBay was different 10+ years ago. Bidding wars were often quite strong. The site was mostly filled with interesting used goods and collectibles.

Then it became more "retail". The site was flooded with vastly more listings, than there were buyers. Many retail outlets began dumping inventory on eBay. Search results began to return massive amounts of items. More distractions means fewer people might find your listings when browsing, except when they perform specific searches that match your item.

This leaves bidding auctions much more vulnerable to low audiences and low outcomes - i.e. items often end for less than what the seller wants, leaving the seller out of pocket. It's great for buyers of course, but terrible for sellers. And since all of us are both buyers and sellers, it's a conflicted situation. We all love to buy cheap and sell strong. But personally, like most sellers nowadays, I choose to set my own sell prices, and where possible, allow for a bit of negotiation.

I don't really buy into the idea either that some sellers list these buggies without any knowledge of TamiyaClub and the related sites. It literally only takes a few minutes of googling to get enough research information that will inform someone that these things can go for big money.

True, and I totally agree. But I was referring more to the buyers not really knowing values, and bidding strongly for items when they see them, without doing much research. Hence causing high-ish prices on occasion. I know this conflicts with my entire previous paragraph, but sometimes bidding auctions are still strong - it's not that they never happen. They just cannot be relied upon almost every time, like they could be 10+ years ago. In my opinion.

Believe me, I agree with you - it doesn't take much research. But like I said, so many people in the world....and only some are prepared to do 5 mins of research.

One of the most common requests I get on my website is from people who want me to help them find some rare R/C car they used to have, when the exact car they want is already for sale somewhere online.

Trust me Andy, you would be amazed sometimes. There are people who do the research, and really know what they want. Then there are those who just want the convenience of getting something immediately and not waiting. I never would have believed it years ago either, but I've probably responded to a couple of thousand people in recent years about items they are searching for. There are all types out there. So I just try to point them in the best direction I can, and in many cases, I send them off to buy other people's items (after doing the 5 mins of research myself! :lol:). It often makes people happy though, which is rewarding.

Another hobby/passion of mine is the trainer/sneaker collecting game and this false bidding thing happens regularly on ebay. The only difference is that the sellers don't seem to be too bright as they simply relist the same pair of sneakers almost immediately after the auction ends...like, a day or two later....over and over again, even though someone "wins" the auction each time. Eventually, they just give up and the items are never seen again. :lol:

Funny you mention that, as my wife is a huge sneaker fanatic/collector as well ^_^ This hobby has really caught on in recent years, and on our last trip to New York, she came home with ten new pairs of sneakers.

A pity that so many truly vintage sneakers were made from foam and rubber that literally melts with age though :blink: It's a really tough genre to collect.

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But see, that would mean the seller made no money from the sale, yet has to pay 10% in final value fees + 10% of the shipping, out of their own pocket. All for nothing...

Either they do that, or they go through the motions of opening an "eBay dispute" - then wait for eBay to resolve the matter in their favour, and cancel the sale.

But then their friend or family member (the shill bidder) will get slugged with an unpaid item strike, which may impede their ability to bid/buy in future.

Is it really worth going through all that trouble, and not even make a sale, purely to "put on a show" by fake-bidding something up to a high price?

I just don't see why anyone would bother :P

I agree, it does sound crazy, but I still think that it probably happens, whereby the seller is prepared to take the risk of being hit with the final value fee by getting someone to bump the final price up to an exorbitant amount. However it's not the case that the buyer will be hit with an unpaid item strike, simply because there are other payment methods that ebay have no means of recording. All the buyer & seller have to do is mark the item as paid and that is the end of the matter.

Going back to the sneaker collecting game, this actually happens quite a lot whereby the seller refuses to accept PayPal because the seller is extremely vulnerable to buyers who are scammers, who receive genuine authentic trainers but then report the seller to PayPal, claiming they have received fake goods. Since PayPal nearly always favour the buyer they refund them and also instruct them to return the goods to the seller. What happens then is the buyer sends back a fake version of the same trainers that they bought from the sellers, so in effect they are swapping out a fake pair of trainers for the real thing.

It's for that reason that sellers refuse to accept PayPal and will only take cash on collection or a bank transfer. And there is no way of ebay physically recording the exchange of funds. Honestly, you wouldn't believe how many unscrupulous characters there are in the sneaker collecting game. They make RC collectors look like paragons of virtue. :)

Perhaps I am being a little too judgemental on this particular seller though, as it's possible they were a victim of a muppet who simply kept bidding high but who had absolutely intention of paying. Whatever the reason though, I still maintain that nobody ever paid for that Bigwig.

.....I was referring more to the buyers not really knowing values, and bidding strongly for items when they see them, without doing much research. Hence causing high-ish prices on occasion. I know this conflicts with my entire previous paragraph, but sometimes bidding auctions are still strong - it's not that they never happen. They just cannot be relied upon almost every time, like they could be 10+ years ago. In my opinion.

Believe me, I agree with you - it doesn't take much research. But like I said, so many people in the world....and only some are prepared to do 5 mins of research.

One of the most common requests I get on my website is from people who want me to help them find some rare R/C car they used to have, when the exact car they want is already for sale somewhere online.

Trust me Andy, you would be amazed sometimes. There are people who do the research, and really know what they want. Then there are those who just want the convenience of getting something immediately and not waiting. I never would have believed it years ago either, but I've probably responded to a couple of thousand people in recent years about items they are searching for. There are all types out there. So I just try to point them in the best direction I can, and in many cases, I send them off to buy other people's items (after doing the 5 mins of research myself! :lol:). It often makes people happy though, which is rewarding.

I have no doubt that all of what you say above is true. What I struggle to believe is that someone, who is a novice to vintage Tamiya RC, thinks to themselves one day "I remember that Tamiya car I had as a kid...I bet I can find it on ebay" ....and then without doing a shred of research, promptly forks out nearly £400 on an example in average condition and with vital parts missing. I would think that person would be hoping to pick it up for a steal. If your prepared to fork out that much money on old tat, surely a little bit of research would be useful. Or maybe some people out there simply have money to burn.....

Funny you mention that, as my wife is a huge sneaker fanatic/collector as well ^_^ This hobby has really caught on in recent years, and on our last trip to New York, she came home with ten new pairs of sneakers.

A pity that so many truly vintage sneakers were made from foam and rubber that literally melts with age though :blink: It's a really tough genre to collect.

Yeah, the sneaker collecting game is becoming uncannily like the Tamiya scene with manufacturers such as Nike regularly re-releasing classic models from the late 1980s to early/mid 1990s, and bringing out "Quick Strike" limited edition models that sell out instantly and then fetch silly money from opportunists re-selling them on ebay & social media. Predictably, there are also wails of protests about these manufacturers saturating the market with too many models, and thus damaging their brand. There are also complaints about the quality of materials compared to the original version from back in the day. Does this sound familiar? :P;)

One thing that Nike did recently that I really liked was when they did a "Vote Back" occasion... https://web.nike.com/airmaxvoteback/index.html ..whereby they listed a huge range of their most iconic sneakers from over the last 30 years and allowed people, over the course of a couple of weeks, to vote on which they would like to see re-released. The winning sneaker was the Air Max 1 Atmos Elephant, (an odd choice, I thought, but that is sneaker collectors for you :blink:) and it will be re-released on Air Max Day 2017.

I'd love Tamiya to do a similar thing with their stuff. It would be really interesting to see what would win.

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On the subject of alternative manufacturers re re'ing 80's stuff, I note Vision skateboards have re released their range. I had a Vision Psycho Stick back in the day, which has now been Re Re'd...cool!!

psycho_purple.jpg

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On the subject of alternative manufacturers re re'ing 80's stuff, I note Vision skateboards have re released their range. I had a Vision Psycho Stick back in the day, which has now been Re Re'd...cool!!

psycho_purple.jpg

I was always a Powell Peralta, still have a couple of the decks and have bought and sold many nos ones over the years.
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I had Powell Peralta wheels on my skateboard for a while but they were too hard for the road, I ended up using roller skate wheels with a softer compound which worked much better for me. :)

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Santa Cruz wheels on my riders with Indy trucks. The only Powell wheels I ever tried were T bones 95a compound, they were not reversible though, so after a few slides were coned.😀

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It's funny with all this talk about the Bigwig it struck me that the Kyosho Shadow is probably about the closest thing Kyosho made to the Bigwig. There's a lot of similarity chassis-wise to the Boomerang or Thundershot too, but the body and wheels definitely remind me more of the Bigwig -- thoughts??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/kyosho-vintage-shadow-/111960507533

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

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It was a nice example, certainly, but £622 worth of nice? It was described as being "mint" yet the box lid has patina, bowing and fraying. The Technigold blister is also damaged. I would describe it's condition as "excellent", but no more than that.

Still though, as the old saying goes, an item is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Bigwig values have certainly come a long way since I sold a NIB for £200 around 10 years ago though. Goes without saying that is one of my biggest regrets whilst involved in this hobby. :(

Don't beat yourself up about that, I sold all my Star Wars figures and Transformers at a car boot sale for peanuts before they became valuble, also gave my mate my childhood 959 and he ended up binning it!

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I was always a Powell Peralta, still have a couple of the decks and have bought and sold many nos ones over the years.

Would love to find a Vision Gonz with the fish on the top and bottom smoking a fag.

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Would love to find a Vision Gonz with the fish on the top and bottom smoking a fag.

Like most things nowadays vision have re released a number of there early decks. Not sure if this one is included as Mark Gonzales left and formed his own company.

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Wow, I never noticed how similar the Shadow was. Kinda funny considering the Big Wig was Tamiya's top 4wd in its stable at the time and the Shadow was Kyosho's bottom end 4wd.

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Wow, I never noticed how similar the Shadow was. Kinda funny considering the Big Wig was Tamiya's top 4wd in its stable at the time and the Shadow was Kyosho's bottom end 4wd.

Yeah, there's a mention in this "RC For Old Nuts" article comparing the Shadow to the Thundershot... but to me the similarity is definitely more with the Bigwig. The Shadow came out in 1988, Thundershot in 1987 and Bigwig in 1986 so the timing isn't really much of a factor.

http://www.rc4on.com/blog/?p=1705

Here are a couple more comparisons showing what seems to me unmistakably someone being instructed to "fast follow" the Bigwig with a close but Kyosho-flavored facsimile...

model_58057_01.jpg

IMGP9712.JPG

26277405816_ce13babf77_o.jpg

3.JPG

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Bigwig shape is far away better than the Nikkoish design of this Kyosho.

Max

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Agree,

That Kyosho is plain ugly and disproportioned in my eye.

The Bigwig is beautifully balanced and looks an awful lot more aerodynamic too.

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No prizes for guessing which one would last longer as a runner though!

(Clue, it isn't the Bigwig)

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Kyosho-flavored facsimile....

IMGP9712.JPG

Dear Lord....and some say that the Bigwig is ugly. :lol:

Having said that, it could be said that this body was one of the first to feature the boxy looking, forward cab that nearly every modern buggy has. Maybe they were ahead of the game?......

....nah, what on earth were you thinking, Mr Kyosho. :P

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Bigwig shape is far away better than the Nikkoish design of this Kyosho.

Max

Dear Lord....and some say that the Bigwig is ugly. :lol:

Nothing wrong with the Shadow ^_^

Allow me to recalibrate your ugly-o-meters, gentlemen.

"Nikkoish"

And...

WfMsd8N.jpg

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Nothing wrong with the Shadow ^_^

Allow me to recalibrate your ugly-o-meters, gentlemen.

"Nikkoish"

And...

WfMsd8N.jpg

I couldn't find the dislike button - man that's fugly !

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