Tamiya vs Kyosho re-releases

[Saito2 6686]

Is it me, or are Kyosho re-releases a better deal than Tamiya ones? I love Tamiya more than Kyosho any day of the week but when you look at what you get in a Scorpion re-re for about $220, its impressive. The upcoming Optima looks like it will be around $300. That's alot of buggy (with alot of metal) for that price. Super Hot Shots sometimes run in that price range and are mostly plastic. I know Tamiya charges what they do because the market can support it, but the Kyosho cars offer more bang for the buck. Not trying to be critical of Tamiya but rather pleasantly surprised about Kyosho's reasonable prices.

[werewolf 72]

I guess that depends on how you look at it and maybe also on the country you live in. About a year ago I was looking into buying a re-re to take part in vintage races with. At that time I wanted something fairly competitive (so no Grasshopper, for example) but without spending too much money. Since I did not have any vintage cars or parts, I would also need to stock up on some spares so I wouldn't be left stranded after just some minor mishap.

After some research it came down to either a Novafox or a Scorpion. In the end I choose the Novafox because 1) the love for Tamiya is strong and more importantly 2) here in Sweden I could buy 2 Novafox kits for the price of 1 Scorpion kit, giving me lots of spares.

After two race weekends I am still very glad with the choice I made. I still haven't broken a single part, even though it's all plastic (even the gears are hardly worn after two weekends with a 20T brushed motor on carpet). And what's more: last time I beat all the Scorpions in the race (though I have to admit that I had customized my Novafox somewhat by then).

So yes: from a technical point of view Kyosho might offer more bang for the buck, but that doesn't necessarily translates directly into durability, fun factor or race results.

[mongoose1983 3335]

Tamiya parts might be plastic alright, but I have never had to file and "adjust" some part to make the cars work. Kyoshos in the 80's had that precision problem, and as far as I have heard they haven't changed much. Think I've read one or two cases here in TC forums the last couple of years.

[berman 5315]

I think whoever is in control of the Kyosho rereleases has enthusiasm and heart in place. You can tell their rerelease cars have passion reengineered into them whereas Tamiya just seem to be punching out whatever to make a buck, with holes (warts) from previous models in all.

[markbt73 5316]

Tamiya parts might be plastic alright, but I have never had to file and "adjust" some part to make the cars work. Kyoshos in the 80's had that precision problem, and as far as I have heard they haven't changed much. Think I've read one or two cases here in TC forums the last couple of years.

Well... Tamiya parts fit together right off the trees, but with fairly loose tolerances. Kyosho (and also Associated and old Losi) parts are sometimes too tight, with the expectation that you will make them fit perfectly. The end result is a tighter car, but with more work required.

[beefmuffin 1156]

I still have yet to pick up my first-ever Kyosho re-re, so I'll know better once I get my hands on an Optima re-re. BUT it does seem that certainly for the Optima the deal at the U.S. price is pretty incredible IMHO.

[mongoose1983 3335]

I think whoever is in control of the Kyosho rereleases has enthusiasm and heart in place. You can tell their rerelease cars have passion reengineered into them whereas Tamiya just seem to be punching out whatever to make a buck, with holes (warts) from previous models in all.

Sad but 100% true, my friend.

[Saito2 6686]

Please don't feel I'm putting Tamiya down in any way. If I had to pick, one even at the same price, I'd take a Nova Fox over a Scorpion. I'm just as happy with Tamiya re-res as Kyosho ones. Afterall, they both reflect how the originals were. I guess I'm just impressed with all Kyosho is bringing to the table with the upcoming Optima release.

[beefmuffin 1156]

Please don't feel I'm putting Tamiya down in any way. If I had to pick, one even at the same price, I'd take a Nova Fox over a Scorpion. I'm just as happy with Tamiya re-res as Kyosho ones. Afterall, they both reflect how the originals were. I guess I'm just impressed with all Kyosho is bringing to the table with the upcoming Optima release.

Not to detract from the thread, Saito, because it is especially now a very relevant topic... but I also feel like we've all hashed and rehashed the topic in the Optima and Blackfoot Re-re threads!

[shenlonco 1156]

to me the kyosho models have gotten full attention to details and craftsmanship kyosho not only releases a nice looking old model like Tamiya but they went a step further improving them as much as possible to make them stronger work better and handle todays power plants and lipo batteries but stay true to there classic looks.

A+ for the kyosho designers that work with the rereleases they are doing a superb job!

[pizzachaude 130]

Well here in Canada getting parts for Kyoshos has always been a problem, that is not the case with Tamiya. And if you think engineering tolerances in Kyoshos are bad, search the web for the RC10 Worlds re-re, lots of problems with gearbox shafts and tolerances messed up (apparently though the Associated guys send out free replacement parts no problem). Ive yet to buy my first Kyosho re-re, and with the current canadian vs US dollar exchange the Optima re-re would cost me about 500$ which is too steep for me so will probably have to wait until Christmas.

Im truly very happy that Tamiya and Kyosho continue to re-release all their classics, so bring on the Javelin and Bigwig!

[werewolf 72]

I don't have anything against Kyosho either (I drive a Ultima RB6 for modern racing), I just don't have the same sentimental affection for the brand as I have for Tamiya. And unfortunately the exchange rates and taxes seem to affect the Kyosho models more than the Tamiya models in Sweden, although I am not sure how that is possible...?

Example: over here I can buy a Hotshot for $215 (SRP in Japan $235) and a Supershot for $285 (SRP in Japan $310), while the new Optima will set me back a whopping $470 (SRP $370 in Japan).

[mtbkym01 4008]

I don't have anything against Kyosho either (I drive a Ultima RB6 for modern racing), I just don't have the same sentimental affection for the brand as I have for Tamiya. And unfortunately the exchange rates and taxes seem to affect the Kyosho models more than the Tamiya models in Sweden, although I am not sure how that is possible...?

Example: over here I can buy a Hotshot for $215 (SRP in Japan $235) and a Supershot for $285 (SRP in Japan $310), while the new Optima will set me back a whopping $470 (SRP $370 in Japan).

Only explanation for price differences must be the distributors mark up, assuming they are distributed by different companies

[madmickmalone 77]

I have to admit , there wasn't a day go by, that i was looking signs for a Tamiya Fox rere, but I was so disappointed when I opened the box to see no blister packs,its not hard to go that extra mile.

[werewolf 72]

Only explanation for price differences must be the distributors mark up, assuming they are distributed by different companies

That might very well be the case. Still sucks for the customer that wants to support their LHS, though.

[GregM 1109]

I think Tamiya does pretty well with their re-releases. For the more basic R/C cars, cost is an important factor, so there's no need for making too fancy blister packaging or massive improvements in the drivetrain. Where for the very costly re-releases like the Sand Scorcher and Bruiser, Tamiya went the extra mile to do some mechanical design changes where necessary.

Some other even underwent a total chassis overhaul where desperately needed, see Wild Willy 2 and Holiday Buggy 2010.

There's the occasional odd car like the Monster Beetle, which defied any re-release logic thanks to it flawed drivetrain. But it makes us still happy in bringing back long lost unique chassis parts and decals, so that's at least one plus to consider.

For Kyosho, I think their re-release cars are positioned to appeal to a slightly different customer base. One where the high costs of kits doesn't play a big role, but where major overhauls drivetrain-wise are appreciated. At least that's my guess.

I would be pleased if both Kyosho and Tamiya look at each other to see what their competitors are doing re-release wise, and then take these lessons to make future re-releases and new retro-styled cars both fun to look at and fun to drive. Win-win for all.

[LongRat 616]

Who knows for sure but if it is true that most of the Kyosho moulds from the original releases no longer exist, and they've had to re manufacture everything, there is no longer a cost barrier to making engineering improvements.

[beefmuffin 1156]

Who knows for sure but if it is true that most of the Kyosho moulds from the original releases no longer exist, and they've had to re manufacture everything, there is no longer a cost barrier to making engineering improvements.

... and yet, even adding redesigning and reengineering the manufacturing process from scratch Kyosho are offering these re-re kits up at really reasonable prices, relatively speaking.

[Scorpn 18]

Kyosho were always more about racing than Tamiya - Their rere's just reflect that focus, updated for modern gear

[Wandy 1527]

Maybe we should cut Tamiya some slack, considering how many kits they have re-released. To bring back all of those and expect them to invest so much time and energy into "old tech" is perhaps wishful thinking.

Kyosho are only 4 re-releases in and have already peaked. No matter what they bring back after the Optima, it won't be as dazzling as this re-release. And I don't see them bringing back more than another 5 or 6 classics so they can afford to plough so much attention to detail into them.

[lin6499 237]

Deleted because of wrong topic. Sorry.

[Robert5000 928]

Kyosho are only 4 re-releases in and have already peaked. No matter what they bring back after the Optima, it won't be as dazzling as this re-release.

I see your Optima and raise you a Gallopp.

But yeah, you're right, they'll be hard pressed to top the Optima.

[Wandy 1527]

I see your Optima and raise you a Gallopp.

But yeah, you're right, they'll be hard pressed to top the Optima.

A Gallop re-release would not be as widely popular as the Optima. The only other re-release that might get close in terms of popularity would be the Mid.

[Robert5000 928]

A Gallop re-release would not be as widely popular as the Optima.

Agreed. It's just that I would love a Gallop as I find the whole 4wds idea quite bonkers and charming.

[Wandy 1527]

Agreed. It's just that I would love a Gallop as I find the whole 4wds idea quite bonkers and charming.

I'm not a fan of the Mk1, but would be all over a Mk2 re-release.