Tamiya vs Kyosho re-releases

[shenlonco]

I think if kyosho makes the javelin it will be the best one yet!

[berman]

Maybe we should cut Tamiya some slack, considering how many kits they have re-released. To bring back all of those and expect them to invest so much time and energy into "old tech" is perhaps wishful thinking.

Kyosho are only 4 re-releases in and have already peaked. No matter what they bring back after the Optima, it won't be as dazzling as this re-release. And I don't see them bringing back more than another 5 or 6 classics so they can afford to plough so much attention to detail into them.

No thank you. Just because you punch more units out does not not give you excuse to use the 'close enough' excuse. Making stickers to cover holes or using the body from a previous model that has the incorrect guards for an expensive model isn't a reason to cut corners. Especially when your competitor is going above and beyond to keep the nostalgia AND the performance of their rerelease even better.

The Optima is in my LHS and the same price as the Sand scorcher was. The sand scorcher may have had more 'nostalgia', especially on these forums, but the Optima is more bang for your buck, and I am only taking into account what Kyosho has improved upon (not that it has the 4wd, diffs etc aspect).

RE: Optima peaked, I suppose that comes down to personal opinion. The Optima was like Tamiyas Hotshot, a marvel for it's time, and it's iconic status is legendary, but peaked? There were far better buggies in the 80's from kyosho in regards to performance and looks, and I am not sold the rerelease Optima would be the best seller.

But lets not speculate. Tamiya have rereleased approx 20+ and kyosho 4, we could sit here all day and guess what's going to happen, but right now kyosho have knocked it out of the ball park with their rereleases (the only thing similar I can think of right now from Tamiya is the Bruiser).

[berman]

I think if kyosho makes the javelin it will be the best one yet!

If any rerelease is going to make me part with my money, it would be this. In my opinion the most gorgeous buggy Kyosho created. My LHS already offered me the Optima for cost price, and I didn't even flinch and said 'No thank you'.

[Wandy]

No thank you. Just because you punch more units out does not not give you excuse to use the 'close enough' excuse. Making stickers to cover holes or using the body from a previous model that has the incorrect guards for an expensive model isn't a reason to cut corners. Especially when your competitor is going above and beyond to keep the nostalgia AND the performance of their rerelease even better.

I just think it's a bit late in the day for us to develop too much offence at Tamiya's lack of attention to detail in some or their re-releases. At the end of the day, if you asked most people one here if they would prefer a flawed, yet generally faithful, re-release over nothing at all then they would take the former. And no doubt these re-re Blackfoot kits are still going to sell in good numbers, even with a swiss-cheesed, unlicenced and de-grilled body.

Kyosho have had over 10 years of watching Tamiya do re-releases both rightly and wrongly...so it would be pretty foolish to make those same mistakes, especially when they will undoubtedly be re-releasing a lot less kits.

[Sayer]

I just think it's a bit late in the day for us to develop too much offence at Tamiya's lack of attention to detail in some or their re-releases. At the end of the day, if you asked most people one here if they would prefer a flawed, yet generally faithful, re-release over nothing at all then they would take the former. And no doubt these re-re Blackfoot kits are still going to sell in good numbers, even with a swiss-cheesed, unlicenced and de-grilled body.

Kyosho have had over 10 years of watching Tamiya do re-releases both rightly and wrongly...so it would be pretty foolish to make those same mistakes, especially when they will undoubtedly be re-releasing a lot less kits.

I think the issue is the asking of the wrong question. Of course people would prefer a flawed but close enough re-release if the alternative was nothing at all, but they'd very likely prefer an "accurate with improvements" re-release over the flawed one given that choice.

Kyosho could also re-release their buggies with Tamiya's "it's this or nothing" sentiment, and the same people who snapped up the Tamiya re-res would likely buy them in the same numbers, but what's noteworthy is that Kyosho has chosen to go in a different direction. They're making their buggies better when they really didn't have to.

[LongRat]

Perhaps Kyosho did have to. They have nowhere near the following that Tamiya do. They will only likely sell re releases to RC aficionados like us. Tamiya's re releases appeal to a far wider audience, most of whom won't notice technical shortcomings, much less care about them.

[Sayer]

Perhaps Kyosho did have to. They have nowhere near the following that Tamiya do. They will only likely sell re releases to RC aficionados like us. Tamiya's re releases appeal to a far wider audience, most of whom won't notice technical shortcomings, much less care about them.

The disturbing (to me) trend about these arguments is that the general gist of the Tamiya defense always boils down to "Tamiya can afford to cut corners and not try as hard because we'll buy it anyway, so why bother?" or "Yeah it's not the best, but if you want a Blackfoot, you're going to have to suck it up!" which while based in realism, doesn't exactly fill me with warm fuzzy feelings regarding the brand. I've already got an Optima, a Mid SE, a Javelin, a Double Dare and a Burns, so I'm not really the target audience for the "it's this or nothing" marketing strategy - but despite not having a Blackfoot, if Kyosho releases a Javelin with upgrades similar to the Optima re re, that's what I'm buying.

[Hibernaculum]

Regarding the value for money issue...
Since every reissue from Kyosho is made in China, instead of Japan, that may also be a factor in the low prices.

The Kyosho reissues are made from new molds as well. Hence the dimension differences. They are by every measure, new models inspired by the old ones, manufactured from the ground up with new equipment. Even I have been almost tempted to buy them, because in a way I admire Kyosho's effort to try to simulate the old kits from the designs alone. But they would still just feel like a souvenir to me And I'd just rather use the $300 a reissue kit would cost, as 50% deposit on an actual vintage kit.

Let's hope Kyosho don't go down the Tamiya path of over-selling their icons though. I'm not sure if anybody needs "Jun Watanabe Optima" or "Neo Optima". When Tamiya run out of famous buggies to reissue (i.e. soon), we are probably going to be treated to more of those "special" releases that everyone is simply dying to buy, as a way of stretching things out (Hobbit-trilogy style). So get your wallets ready

[Saito2]

Honestly, it's some of those "cut corners" that bother me the most about Tamiya re-releases. I don't mind some changes here and there and can even deal with the decal alterations (although the name changes still urk me). The Monster Beetle displayed just plain laziness. Leaving out the proper window glass? Leaving the SS mirrors? Using a decal (a decal!) to cover an extra hole in the body?? I feel that Tamiya may be using the complaints of devaluing the originals (by making the re-res too close to the originals) as an excuse to be sloppy.

[Wandy]

I think the issue is the asking of the wrong question. Of course people would prefer a flawed but close enough re-release if the alternative was nothing at all, but they'd very likely prefer an "accurate with improvements" re-release over the flawed one given that choice.

Kyosho could also re-release their buggies with Tamiya's "it's this or nothing" sentiment, and the same people who snapped up the Tamiya re-res would likely buy them in the same numbers, but what's noteworthy is that Kyosho has chosen to go in a different direction. They're making their buggies better when they really didn't have to.

The disturbing (to me) trend about these arguments is that the general gist of the Tamiya defense always boils down to "Tamiya can afford to cut corners and not try as hard because we'll buy it anyway, so why bother?" or "Yeah it's not the best, but if you want a Blackfoot, you're going to have to suck it up!" which while based in realism, doesn't exactly fill me with warm fuzzy feelings regarding the brand. I've already got an Optima, a Mid SE, a Javelin, a Double Dare and a Burns, so I'm not really the target audience for the "it's this or nothing" marketing strategy - but despite not having a Blackfoot, if Kyosho releases a Javelin with upgrades similar to the Optima re re, that's what I'm buying.

My main point is that this thorny issue has only really raised it's head since Kyosho dropped the Optima at the same time as the Blackfoot re-release leaked out of Germany. The Optima drop could not have been worse timed from Tamiya's perspective as it painfully highlighted what will probably be wrong with the Blackfoot.

If the Optima or, for that matter, any of the other Kyosho re-releases had never came along would people be so strongly cheesed off with the probably flaws in the Blackfoot?, and would they be harking back to other stuff from the past that wasn't done perfectly?

When you think about it too, just how many of Tamiya's re-releases have had genuinely disappointing features? I can only think of the Buggy Champ & FAV without the Sand Blaster Jrs, the Sand Scorcher with reworked Monster Beetle body...and the Holiday Buggy/Sand Rover on the DT-02. Everything else, save for a lack of decal sponsors, has been done very well indeed IMO.

And let's not forget that, as wonderful as the Optima re-re is, it still has one seriously disappointing feature....the lack of the original tyres, which were a huge part of what made the original look so fantastic. It's simply because we know that perfect replicas of the original tyres are widely available that people are overlooking this major part omission by Kyosho.

[Wooders28]

Tamiya and kyosho have,in my eyes,always had a different approach.

Tamiyas where cheap,great fun bashing and looking good doing it, whilst kyosho where more for racing.

[d4dawg]

Regarding the value for money issue...

Since every reissue from Kyosho is made in China, instead of Japan, that may also be a factor in the low prices.

The Kyosho re-issue kits are made in Taiwan.

[madmickmalone]

The Kyosho re-issue kits are made in Taiwan.

I think labour is cheaper or on par with china atm and quality is better, compared to tamiya, who are using the philippines (even lower) for some kits,have to admit kyosho vs tamiya atm , kyosho in front.

[Baja500]

Taiwan makes great re-released gear, behind japan.. off topic, haro freestyler bmx chose taiwan to remake the 1980's haro freestyler vintage series bikes again, they look awsome.. interfere's with my rc buying 😲

I do agree with the optima's tires, super silicon soft & different, but everything else is excellent. You can buy aftermarket sand super's online which look pretty close to original tire's / tyres ☺ must buy some..

[d4dawg]

Oh I have no issues with stuff made in Taiwan, in fact I am quite proud of it. I was simply correcting the information posted by Hibernaculum, that's all.

[Chumley54]

The Tamiya RE-RE may not be updated enough for some, but since I have a few of the originals, it is nice that I can get replacement parts that fit.     I have original Blackfoot, Monster Beetle, Midnight Pumpkin and Clod Buster.   Nearly all the new parts fit the old, and I have ordered the parts to repair and refurbish my old, pretty bashed up oldies.  If they re-engineer the Re-Re too much, they aren't re- re's anymore.     

It's good to have parts. Also, the re-re use the same third party hop-ups....so now there are new upgrades for my old machines.   It's a win for me....I may not buy the whole RE-RE kit, but I am buying a lot of plastic trees with the parts I need.