Restoration, how far can one go without...

[Saito2]

How far can one go with a restoration before you lose the essence of the original vehicle? For example : I was looking at my tired, original '87 Lunch Box and debating about how (or if) to restore it. It's my first new Tamiya kit so it holds alot of value to me personally. The problem is a combination of worn parts and questionable "modifications". The chrome bumpers are scratched. The chrome is rubbed off the shock bodies. The body has been repainted numerous times. Then there's the "mods". When you're a kid with time and energy but little money, you do dumb things. I couldn't afford cool alloy wheels, but I could afford spray paint. Remember when Custom Chrome in the US offered just about every part for a Tamiya monster truck in chrome? Well, out came the spray paint again and instant "chrome" chassis. Later I sprayed it black again. Then there's holes in the chassis for light switches, body mounts and who knows what else. Basically, my youthful enthusiasm really messed up the truck.

So, let's assume I could get original Tamiya spares (or even the cheap re-re spares). With a new chassis, new shocks, new chrome, new wheels, new window glass (the original is cracked) and new tires (to replace my nearly bald originals) just how much of the truck is my original truck anymore? I can strip the shell and try to strip original chassis and wheels but the chassis still has holes in it. I could have the original plastics re-chromed (probably not cheap) I guess. At what point, does one stop and admit it can't be both original and perfectly restored at the same time?

 

 

[Backlash]

Its a bit like Grandads Axe.. Its had 10 new heads, and 20 new handles, but its been a great old axe...

This is something that I have often wondered when restoring old cars that have a great sentimental value..

One such car was my original RC10 graphite.. It had only ever been raced on carpet, so it was in quite good condition to begin with, but it still had a few bumps and scrapes here and there.. This car sat untouched for many years as I pondered over how far I would actually go in restoring the buggy.. My restoration for this vehicle ended up consisting of nothing more than a complete teardown and clean, and then it was reassembled with the only parts that were replaced were a cracked set of front suspension mounts, and any aluminium screws that had been damaged / rounded off over the years..  I have fitted a new body, but it has never been painted as it just didn't seem right when the old body was still in a useable condition.. I rewired the original Tekin 410S ESC, and the original JR servo that I used, but sadly it seems that the original receiver is long gone.. I have even managed to find a period correct white end bell Johnson 540, and the original 20 tooth alloy pinion, but these still need to be refitted to the car.. All that its missing to be as I raced it many years ago is some Yokomo TF32 front and rear tyres..

For some cars that I no longer have sufficient parts to restore, or they were just too far gone, I did my best to create a replica of that car.. Maybe this is the answer for you....?

As for cars that I have no sentimental attachment to, I restore however I like, but I have in a few cars still kept something that was from the original owner, such as a painted driver figure.....

[Pablo68]

I have a hornet that is built from parts gathered and replaced many times over the years.
I think the only original parts left on it from 1987 are the bumper and one of the nerf bars.
Even the chassis is from one of the many spare Hornets I've owned since.

It all comes down to what matters to you I guess. If I were you I'd stip, clean and generally tidy up the old girl. Maybe strip any old paint if you can. Replace anything that you can't tolerate then run it a few times and then shelve it.
Buy another Lunchbox to beat the badword out of/fart about with.

[markbt73]

Or you could just leave it as is, build a fancy display stand for it, and retire it with full honors...

[Nitomor]

I'm with Mark here, that's your youth encapsulated there, for centamentability, imho, preserve it, give it a good clean and regrease, don't strip any paint off it or fix any of your childhood mods. Maybe replacing a badly rounded off screw here and there if really necessary.

Maybe get yourself a new rere to display next to it. I have a Mad Bull shell that went terribly wrong while on my clear coat learning phase, I display it with pride as a reminder and to show just how far I've come. I wish I could lay my hands on some of my childhood RC's. 

[acprc]

I'm in the same boat with a Super Champ restoration I have here. The chassis has been fully restored because it was snapped and rusty but the body shell has great patina so I will just be sorting a few issues and placing it back on the chassis.

 

[Nobbi1977]

Keep it as it is and buy a new kit to build new memory's with. As they now say in the classic bike, it is only original once.

[Frog Jumper]

I have maybe one or two original parts in my Frog, but as long as something is "Original", I consider it original...  I mean, if I had access to all these same parts (and had the money) BITD , I would have done the same hop-ups, right???

Terry

 

 

[Frog Jumper]

On 4/30/2016 at 9:29 PM, Backlash said:

Its a bit like Grandads Axe.. Its had 10 new heads, and 20 new handles, but its been a great old axe...
 

^^^ this!!!

 

 

[matman]

If you want to Restore it , you will lose your CAR !! , The hart or the Car you love & have had since a kid .

You can't replace the scratches , scraps , doggie fix's , mods that we did in the 80's . To keep it 

running , Or we thought it was cool . " So" some rc car's  i have got from Ebay buys etc . I found i could not restore them as well ( just the quirks, etc )  & as like my Fox , 

You just can't find history like , WHAT is in your hands , "You restore it " Then the history is gone out of the model ,  

Yes you can remember the history of your RC cars you had ( but for how long , as we are getting old f@rts ) .

Just looking at it ( As i do ) , you start to remember things that you have forgot .

I have My fox , still as it was when i put it away in the late 80's , maybe early 90's .  I can't bring my self

to restore my history in this car . 

 

  

 

Yes it may not be box art , may not look flash , it may not look to other people's taste , BUT IT'S MINE ! & i love it .

Yes i may think , what was i thinking at that time , but i was happy & wanted to do some thing different ?.    .

Great thread .

[NWarty]

Look,

There are roughly four categories of enthusiasts when it comes to restoring vehicles here in this section. I'm not going to sugarcoat anything, so take this as what you will. This issue has been knocked down in the dirt and drug out for as long as I can remember. Well, at least since 2004

1. "The Purist" The purist is the guy who wants the pinnacle of what it was like to first build the car in 1970-80 something. The day they sloshed on paint or first fired it up. They want to have the exact car that came home with them 40 years ago. But...The Purist hates re-re's. They may hate anything that devalues their car. The purist wants nothing to do with this abomination or its parts. They have spent inordinate amount of time scouring Ebay for years searching for parts, waiting for the right time, dollar amounts be damned. They have networked, they have emailed, they have set up alerts that may sound off once a year. Countless nights wondering if those sand paddle tires will actually appear. Their car is going to the the shining example of something that came out of the box. They have skipped over NOS cracked tires, rubber bands that have disintegrated, all to find every single piece that is original to the car. This project may take months, it may take years, who knows. This effort is like hitting yourself in the head with a wooden board ala Holy Grail. Flagellate on my brethren.  I applaud them for this effort, but I want no part of it. See "guy who hoards 30 3-speed Hiluxes Jackwagon". But keep in mind, the Purist is an individual beast. He may be cool, he may be...not cool. He is not the norm.

1a: "The Purist archetype": I'm going to restore my car to its full glory using every known NOS part imaginable. Money doesn't matter. It may take years, but I'm going to run it because I love it. Heads will explode and I will laugh. Screw you speculators as I will taunt you on the forums. This person laughs at the forum members who left in a huff in the mid 2000's. They will relive their childhood, scratch the paint, road rash the wheels and not give a darn. It's actually pretty hilarious watching the finger of doom and purists' go ape-ish.    

2. "The okay, so it works and it's still pretty original guy". So you've found a car that was dear to your childhood. You have a budget. You want it to be real. But giving in is okay to have your love; concessions are fine. I have "X" car, it was re-released, but I'm going to salvage as much as I possibly can. Whether that be decals, or pinion gears, or that one silver screw on the front left wheel. You search out rere decals, mix them up with repros, but hey, holy cow now it's a nice looking car. You may run it every once in a while. You may give it modern radio equipment, or stay 75mhz. "Fine enough guy" is great. He can leave the car on the shelf and admire his childhood, or run the snot of it and be happy knowing if he breaks something, all is well. I'd absolutely be willing to bet my entire year's salary that most of us fall in this category. Heck, there are a TON of people not even active in these forums who fix up our old cars and never spend any time here. I can't tell you how many times I've said thanks to a seller and mentioned this place and they had no idea about it.

3. The "10% of it's original dude": Woo Hoo! My car, there's a re-release???! I have parts to finally fix up this old mess after ramming it into the wall with a 12T motor on a 7 cell pack. Found it finally in my parent's attic! badword yeah! No cares are given as they want to relive their childhood. Can't paint? Doesn't matter. Go find some Neon Yellow Krylon, give that new clear body a hot mess of a paint job, put some new rubbers on it and go terrorize the neighborhood dogs!

4. "The 90% dude". Found and love my old car. Love these old parts, or new parts, badword I dunno anymore. Make my car like new again, guy. Sell on ebay, have no clue what's original or what's new, but listed as 100% original. 

Seriously, it's fun to poke holes in all the stereotypes that exist on this forum. Do what YOU WANT TO DO. If it makes you feel good about your car, then do it! If you want to change something down the road, then do it! Heck, my own collection is a hodge podge of nearly complete stuff, but it looks great and I'm okay with that.

Other than us dorks, nobody is ever going to know if the color of your motor mount screw is correct. And we ain't collecting Ferrari's.

 

 

 

 

 

[ukfox]

I have my mardave meteor from when I was a teenager.

chassis is scratched, paint is peeling, with period hop up motor, and small mods.

I have bought another car to look pristine.

So keep/ clean up your original, then find another to look pristine

[Wooders28]

To replace all the parts you want to replace, I bet you wouldn't be much more buying a new re re LB, without esc, to put on the shelf and carry on making memories with the original,or visa versa.

BITD, I bet you never worried about its originality or putting it on a shelf to look pretty,just getting out and enjoying it! 😀

[Hibernaculum]

5 hours ago, NWarty said:

Other than us dorks, nobody is ever going to know if the color of your motor mount screw is correct. And we ain't collecting Ferrari's.

Not sure which of these I fit into, but it was a fun read 

I avoid all reissue. Nothing new there. Same way I feel about reissues of any collectibles. They have their place for people wanting a quick fix. But since I collect heavily out of nostalgia, reissues just have zero history or meaning to me.

Predictably, my reaction to "repro" stuff is next-level... 

But when restoring a used car...I don't replace anything that doesn't need replacing.

If it does need replacing, there is nothing more fun than opening that shiny NOS part from 1986, to get the job done. Just like it's 1986 again. Great fun 

Restoring a used car that I have personal memories with - I would lean toward keeping as much of the car unchanged from when I got it, and fix any broken bits I can, before replacing them with NOS. Or perhaps leave it as a broken shelfer. Clean, but non-running, and still full of all the wear I put into it.

I agree that it's a sensitive issue. Change your original runner too much, and it really does stop "feeling" like the same car you had as a kid. I reckon a lot of people have made this mistake, and now regret it. The old car they had for years is gone.

As for dorks and motor mount screw colour... totally  

But there are a lot of dorks in the world - we live in an age of unprecedented collecting, of all kinds of things. There have been at least half a dozen entire TV shows about "collecting" in the past 6 or so years, and such shows barely existed in the 90s or earlier.

I was talking to someone yesterday who has used, vintage ice-cream cups that are worth up to $1000. Slight variances in condition can throw the value of these ephemeral items, way up or way down.

All those collectors add up to a lot of dorks in the world, worrying about the little details. And they all do it because they love what they love. I find the whole culture of collecting, nothing less than fascinating - and a lot of fun.

 

 

[markbt73]

There's also a big difference between a garage-sale or ebay find, and your original car. I'll do what I need to do to get an old wreck back running, but if I had my old original Grasshopper back (which was 70% aftermarket parts by the time I was done with it), I would have to leave it as-is, I think.

[Wooders28]

20 minutes ago, markbt73 said:

There's also a big difference between a garage-sale or ebay find, and your original car. I'll do what I need to do to get an old wreck back running, but if I had my old original Grasshopper back (which was 70% aftermarket parts by the time I was done with it), I would have to leave it as-is, I think.

I've had a few ultima's, just down to one now,as its never the same, doing all I can to find my ORIGINAL car. Added the guy I sold it too's sister on FB recently (with many questions from the wife!),and seemingly he still has it somewhere!! 😀

[Pumesta]

I restored my Blackfoot I had as a child, I upgraded loads off stuff, ESC, Lipo, dog bones, oil shocks, sport tuned motor etc, but I have all the old parts and could put it back to original if I wanted.  I didn't upgrade anything I wouldn't have done when I was a kid if I had the money and the parts availability. I rebuilt the gearbox with re-re MB parts I did not care about using NOS parts, at the end of the day they are the same parts one brand new and the other brand new but made from 30 year plastic.  I wanted a Blackfoot that I could lift of the shelf at anytime stick a battery in it and give it a blast.  Where I might have went over the top was getting a car body shop to paint it.  The paint is near flawless, to the point I wont run it in fear of scratching it.

Guess I need a smaller version of this to keep it in

If anyone wondering that's my friends mk2 Focus RS less than 800 miles on it

[NWarty]

7 hours ago, markbt73 said:

There's also a big difference between a garage-sale or ebay find, and your original car. I'll do what I need to do to get an old wreck back running, but if I had my old original Grasshopper back (which was 70% aftermarket parts by the time I was done with it), I would have to leave it as-is, I think.

Oh heck yeah Mark, if I had my original Wild One, you'd know what I'd do? Replace every single part with a NOS piece down to every nut and bolt. I do period gear with correct everything. I'd charge up a battery and run her once, just once to get that feeling again. And then gently clean her up, put her on the shelf, and wait for the same time next year to maybe run it again. 

I posted something to the effect on my Facebook that "keeping her on the shelf to stare at would be an insult to its memory. The years of enjoyment that it gave me won't be collecting dust" 

[Palfertronic]

An interesting thread!

Unlike a lot of you in here, I didnt get my first car  (Martini Porsche 935)until I was nearly 20..( I am 56 in July!)..I lost it long ago, but if I still had it, would I just run as is, or modernise it as much as I could? You bet I would! a new 2.4 GHz radio, ESC, new steering servo, etc... 

My Uncle restored his 1961 Norton a few years ago, and he put electronic ignition on it, which made it start 1st time, every time!  is that wrong? or just enhancement?

The rest of my old buggies are Ebay purchases, out of people's lofts etc...as I have no emotional attachment to them, I strip them down and modernise as much as I can. I come from a RC aircraft background, and would never dream of putting "vintage" RC gear in a plane, no matter what the age, or rarity! So the first thing I do, when I get a "vintage" buggy off Ebay, is remove the 27 MHz radio, and the MSC! Then a total strip down, clean and rebuild, replacing any broken parts and mashed screws. Bearings always get replaced with new ones, and the old ones carefully checked, cleaned and dumped if necessary. Sometimes a new motor, but always a new ESC and radio...

Does this make me a heritage vandal?

Or just someone who likes bring tired old neglected buggies back to life?

 

PS I have some "vintage" 27 MHz radio, if anyone wants them!

[Wooders28]

I've swapped my (almost) vintage 1:1 car over to EFI, for me it was a no brainer.

I understand modernising,bearings,stronger more reliable parts and I wouldn't dream of putting Nicads in anything now,and even Nimh's days are numbered.

I can understand some people preference for brushed motors in vintage RC, it's part of the look,but, what's up with 27 (or 40) mhz???

 

[Hibernaculum]

35 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

what's up with 27 (or 40) mhz??

Simple. It's vintage 

Period radio gear can be worth a lot too. Personally, I use an AM radio for every build. Either something period correct, or something a bit later like a reliable Sanwa Dash Saber or similar (the technology in standard AM sets was unchanged in 30 years, all they changed was the transmitter casing really). No interest in modern stuff, it just doesn't fit in with the cars I like.

Same with MSCs. They actually get a lot of hate around here. But I actually suspect the wider (non-TC) vintage R/C enthusiast is often more of a purist, than many of the folk on TC these days. Not making a criticism - just an observation. I appreciate everyone's views here, and every single one of us has a uniquely deranged notion of what we like to do with our toy cars . Mine is no exception. 

But TC forums: somewhat anti-MSC, dare I say. Outside world: A single NIP Hotshot MSC will sell for over US$100. There is no slowing in demand for anything vintage/period correct/old-school, out there in the actual market (in my experience), and NIB vintage AM radios can be tough to find (let alone win under bidding).

H.

 

[Palfertronic]

OK I will bite!

MSC s are crude and with a servo to operate it, heavy and bulky!

ESC s are small, light and give MUCH better control over your pride and joy!

Back in the 80s/90s I used MSCs, simply because ESCs were way too expensive..but now...easily affordable!

Whether you like MSCs or not, vintage or modern radios, just go out and enjoy what you do, and keep some of these icons of earlier times running, instead of slowly fading away in forgotten attics and lofts!

[Wooders28]

7 hours ago, Hibernaculum said:

Simple. It's vintage 

I still don't see that as a reason to throw it in the bin,it works and until it stops working,I'm happy to run mine 😛

MSC's,since i started racing at 13, I couldn't understand why you would convert potential forward energy to wasted heat,(3 step) to go slower,then to top things off,burn your hand! lol 

Saying that,they are part of the era plus,they where easy to solder diode's to,to create what became BEC.

[Saito2]

Sorry...I still like my MSCs  (as I've said before, it's crazy, I know)

[Hibernaculum]

2 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I still don't see that as a reason to throw it in the bin,it works and until it stops working,I'm happy to run mine 😛

Our signals may be crossed...(my fault probably, because of the radios I use ). I'm 100% advocating 27/29/40Mhz old school radio gear. Don't think I've ever put anything R/C in the bin (new or old). I don't even throw empty Tamiya sprues in the bin, you guys know that.