Jump to content
madmickmalone

FROG vintage NIB ??

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I have a chance to buy a FROG vintage NIB.

Can anyone give me some tips on what to confirm that all parts are vintage?

 

thanks

MMM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply.

could some one confirm if the pressed metal parts bag is original in the picture below?

 

 

 

IMG_3436.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, beefmuffin said:

Yep - the little FRP tongue that goes under the bumper is tan.

Yes, that AND the aluminum MSC tray.

Oh, and that black resistors' holder tab (not that re-res have a white one, LOL)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry , so just want to confirm that this is all vintage parts, i was worried the black resistor is re release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, all looks vtg to me.  LOL.  You're pretty thorough.  ;-)

EDIT: @Frog Jumper was right on the money here.  Not a complete, original kit.  Dang!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, beefmuffin said:

Yeah, all looks vtg to me.  LOL.  You're pretty thorough.  ;-)

 

thanks for that ,awesome , i suppose am ,haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice find! 

I'm looking at the body shell...  Does it have the holes in the back window for the receiver switch???  Also, is the motor hole already cut-out???  

Its hard to tell from the photo, but it doesn't appear that the holes are there???

The Re-Re body shells didn't have these holes, though they are embossed "1983"...

Terry

ETA#1:  Decals look vintage, ie not fake vintage.  

ETA#2:  My Vintage Frog resistor plate is white.  I don't think the Re-Re's had them since they had ESCs.  Not sure about the black, maybe from Brat???

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes this is a later original vintage kit.

It has the wide bumper and seperate black suspension parts (early ones are one piece)

the grey parts will be different too (but cant tell as image taken of the face - need to see inside)

First edition ones have the black resister plate (same as Brat) - later have the white ones.

Manual will also show the changes - I have a few versions of the manual and a 2 first edition kits (also built one when new in 1984)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, madmickmalone said:

Sorry , so just want to confirm that this is all vintage parts, i was worried the black resistor is re release.

Just in case you didn't catch the link to the actual Frog breakdown we've recently been assembling - https://rctoymemories.com/the-frog-by-tamiya-vintage-vs-reissue/ 

Another important (and often easy) way to check for original plastic parts over reissue parts, is to check the embossed writing on them (or on the sprues).

11 hours ago, Rosey said:

I'm a little unsure. I thought the Frog came with a white heat sink resistor plate, not black as pictured in the metal parts bag?? I know very early prototype Frog pictures show the black resistor plate (no doubt this was taken from a Blazing Blazer kit or something similar by Tamiya at the time whilst they were ironing things out). Production Frog kits though came with the white resistor plate. The location also changed for the heat sink, from the side, between the wheels to the back, under the rear lip of the body. It's a little peculiar that yours has the black plate(?) yet the wide bumper!! First production Frog kits came with the narrow Ascona/Audi front bumper so if anything, i'd have expected an early bumper if in fact the black plates were included in early kits. The rest looks legit though 

I agree that this kit looks legit to me. (EDIT: I was wrong to say this. Please see my next comment!)

Rosey, I'm the opposite to you on this one... The black resistor plate is something I have heard of as being included in early Frog kits.  However, I have not heard of early Frog kits coming with a narrower Audi bumper (Subaru Brat kit yes, Frog kit no). (Not applicable to madmickmalone, as this kit has the more common wide Audi bumper). Does anyone have a Frog kit that came with the narrower/earlier type Audi bumper? 

10 hours ago, zakspeed said:

Yes this is a later original vintage kit.

It has the wide bumper and seperate black suspension parts (early ones are one piece)

the grey parts will be different too (but cant tell as image taken of the face - need to see inside)

First edition ones have the black resister plate (same as Brat) - later have the white ones.

Manual will also show the changes - I have a few versions of the manual and a 2 first edition kits (also built one when new in 1984)

zakspeed, can you elaborate with a photo on the separate suspension vs one piece suspension? Would be good to update my page with that info. The purpose being to say "any of the following types are vintage", and not have people mistake the vintage variations, for the rere parts. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, my Frog came with a white resistor plate. Later build I guess 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, real fast...

The A Parts sprue is Vintage.  Its not a re-re.  You can tell by the screw slots on A4.  With the re-re, these are just holes.

The B Parts sprue is Vintage.  The re-re doesn't include the white nylon bearings.

The C Parts sprue is Vintage.  It is not a re-re nor Vintage Brat.  The re-re sprue is missing the now unused parts.  [On a side note, for Hibernaculum, the Vintage Brat rear shocks were just two ends, a shaft, a spring, and part C7 (now missing from the re-re set).  Google the original Brat manual and you'll see it.]

The F and R sprues are probably re-re, based on the shape of the sprues, which is slightly different in shape from the Vintage.  You'll have to look at the embossed print and see if it says “1/10 RC VW BUGGY” and "MADE IN JAPAN".  That will indicate they are Vintage.

The H parts sprue is Vintage.  The wing on the circular part in the middle is short, while the re-re sprue has a long wing.

The Z parts sprue may be Vintage.  AFAIK, the Vintage spure had (3) cut-points, where as the re-re has (4), ie. the Vintage had (1) sprue arm hold the driver body part at the center circle; the re-re has (2).  

The 4 screw bags are Vintage.

The (2) antennas may or may not be Vintage.  I don't know of a way to differentiate b/w a re-re and a Vintage...  Hopefully someone else knows???

The Front Bumper is Vintage.  It has the two "dots" that the re-re bumper does not have.

The tires may or may not be Vintage.  There are ways to differentiate, but not in your photo.  I would guess they are re-re - I *think* the Vintage Frog tires came in a bag???

The packaged parts box is Vintage.  The motor is correct, the counter gear is brass, the gears are the correct color, etc.

The decals are Vintage Frog.  They do not have the black stripes of the re-re, and have real sponsor names and not made up one.  The quick and easy is the NGK Spark Plugs sticker which is a Tamiya Racing sticker with the re-re.

The body is re-re.  It is missing the holes on the back window for the receiver switch, and the hole for the motor isn't pre-cut.  

The manual is in Japanese and is slightly different from the US version that I own.  But based on your photo, I would say its Vintage.  For one thing, its got blue print...

The Rod Bag appears to be correct.  The Vintage Brat Rod Bag had an extra long front body mount.  This has been replaced with a shaft and top piece with the re-re brat.  The re-re Frog has only (2) MR5 ball-end connectors.  The re-re Frog bag also has a bunch more parts.

The Tool Bag appears correct.  The Vintage Brat had (2) gears included.  The re-re includes parts associated with the new drive shafts.

The Pressed Parts Bag appears correct, except for the previous comment about the color of the resistor plate.  It does have the correct color bumper plate, and the MSC plate.

My biggest RED-FLAG is with the Body.  Everything else looks to be "good to go" (except maybe the tires and wheels).  But the body is definitely NOT Vintage.  IMO, that is the most important item - its the first thing you see.  

I hope this helps!

Terry

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hibernaculum said:

[...] I have not heard of early Frog kits coming with a narrower Audi bumper (Subaru Brat kit yes, Frog kit no). (Not applicable to madmickmalone, as this kit has the more common wide Audi bumper). Does anyone have a Frog kit that came with the narrower/earlier type Audi bumper?

That's what I was going to say.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Frog Jumper said:

The F and R sprues are probably re-re, based on the shape of the sprues, which is slightly different in shape from the Vintage.  You'll have to look at the embossed print and see if it says “1/10 RC VW BUGGY” and "MADE IN JAPAN".  That will indicate they are Vintage.

The tires may or may not be Vintage.  There are ways to differentiate, but not in your photo.  I would guess they are re-re - I *think* the Vintage Frog tires came in a bag???

The body is re-re.  It is missing the holes on the back window for the receiver switch, and the hole for the motor isn't pre-cut.  

My biggest RED-FLAG is with the Body.  Everything else looks to be "good to go" (except maybe the tires and wheels).  But the body is definitely NOT Vintage.  IMO, that is the most important item - its the first thing you see.  

I shall eat my previous words! :rolleyes: Terry is right. In my defence... actually there is no defence, I just didn't look properly.

The F and R sprues and body appear to be reissue. And yes, the tires in a NIB vintage Frog kit are supposed to be in a plastic wrap, ideally.

madmickmalone, this kit is now a value-call for you, based on the fact that it is not entirely vintage. You could either buy it and find the missing vintage pieces to replace in the kit. Or pass on it. If the seller is asking a full vintage price on it though, then it is not worth it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm the least "Vintage" Vintage-Guy there is.  As far as I'm concerned, the "looks" are most important, followed by "cool", and then functionality, and then finally whether or not its Vintage.

That said, I think the Original Body is the most important part about getting a "Vintage" Frog.  Plastic breaks, rubber goes bad, but to be able to point to those decals and the receiver switch holes is what says "Vintage" in my eyes...

Am I a "faker"???  Oh yeah, I am!  I don't care.  I'll tweak and replace parts all day long, but my Holy Grail is a NOS original body!  THe one I have now (my original from when I was a kid) is all ripped to shreds!

Terry

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finding NOS vintage body sets these days (like The Frog), is getting harder each year too. I have a few sets in multiples, but I'm feeling increasingly reluctant to sell rare items like bodies in case I need them for restorations one day. Or else I'll only regret it later.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy carp!  I can't believe I missed the re-re body!  The pictures were a bit small but once I expanded them, no switch holes!

Someone appears to have intentionally made this look like all original -- eg, they removed the overspray film from the body to make it sit on top of the decals and look almost identical to the original.  But the switch holes missing is a dead give-away.

Hats off to you, Terry!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Beefy,

1 hour ago, beefmuffin said:

Someone appears to have intentionally made this look like all original

Yeah, definitely.  

Its 95% there, but as I've said before, the Body is most important...

Terry

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

here is the body, switch hole and motor hole all there ,no writing or film on body.

the box is a bit tired.

I checked all parts and all marked made in japan etc.... using Hibernaculum webpage.

 

the seller also went through it with me.hopefully i feel confident in the purchase

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_3451.JPG

IMG_3477.JPG

IMG_3478.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the black resistor plate..

IIRC, my original Frog had a narrow front bumper, and a Black (Bakerlite) resistor plate..

I remember the black bakerlite plates were quite fragile, and this could be why Tamiya later changed to the white resistor plates..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...