What's the difference

[Roasty]

So I'm looking to a bit of vintage racing next year and I'm looking for cars now.

I'd like a top force but they are a little more than I want to spend at the moment, so I'm looking at   the  following, Mad cap, Dyna Storm  or Astute. Now they all seem very  similar, are they. Also, which one is better for a bit of racing.

Also, can the hotshot be turned in to a good racer.

 

cheers

Ross

 

[t3garett]

Out of those you listed the dyna storm is the most capable car and has the least weak points compared to the others. Most of the parts are available and there are some good printed parts available aswell. I race my dyna storm and super astute, my madcap, egress, astute and avante are just light runners I tried to race them but they were too much hastle to maintain.

Hope this helps.

[t3garett]

Also you could race a df01 (manta ray/dirt thrasher) they can easily keep up with the top forces (weight is no longer a problem with carbon lightweight  lipo batteries ) and most of the top force special parts (diffs, dampers, shock towers) are easy to find. 

[Grastens]

Can the Hotshot be turned into a good racer? It depends on the rules of your local vintage class. For inspiration, look no further than here: 

Of the three models mentioned, the Dyna Storm is again the most capable of the three - the Madcap and Astute will require significant upgrades in order to attain the same level of performance as the Dyna Storm, but again this is dependent on what your local vintage class is running. Ask around and see what the hot setups are, and from there you can hone in on your final selection.

The Astute was meant to be a top-end racer, but suffered from fragility and excessive complexity (a bit like the Avante, from what I am told). The Super Astute remedied a lot of its problems, with its simpler parts reducing weight and increasing strength. However, that was also due to the use of some Madcap parts... The Madcap is relatively cheap and light but lacks the adjustability and tolerances of the Astutes.

The point of all this is to say that the Dyna Storm will be the best racer on paper of the trio, but I would consider a Super Astute before I consider an Astute for vintage racing. If the class is competitive, I would personally go for a Dyna Storm or Super Astute; if the racing is more relaxed, perhaps a Madcap would be more suitable (and preferably with proper oil dampers!).

I will ask if @kontemax can provide his expert insights on these models - he has studied them in great detail!

P.S.: Also worth mentioning are aftermarket companies like Fibre-Lyte and ORB Racing if you plan to tackle vintage racing, since they make high-quality upgrade parts for these cars.

[Roasty]

 

Great info, thanks.

Im looking at a Dyna Storm on eBay, it has an Acto Power Pink motor ADSPEC PLUS and C.P.R P-160F for £295, not sure if these are good or not but id like to run LiPo so I'm not sure if they are compatible? Im waiting for the seller to respond to a message asking if he will sell with out them, if he does i may go for it if the price is right.

There is also a chap on Iconic sales FB page selling a NIB Dyna Storm for £320, unfortunately thats a bit much at the moment. 

Ill keep and eye out for a Super Astute instead of the Astute

I like the look of the manta Ray so ill have look around and see what i find. Are the Vanquish's any good for racing ?

 

Grastens, I've seen the BAR HotShot Thread, its Awesome, i have the time to build a car, or shall i say convert one and in honest i would love to do something like that as i prefer to build car more than race them lol. Unfortunately i don't have the skill to manufacture special parts

 

Thanks again for the info, if anyone has more please add below

 

thanks

Ross

 

 

[Roasty]

Quick question, would a Top Force body fit on the Manta Ray ?

[Snappy1]

Yes the top force body fits all DF-01 buggys.

My imput, I own two Madcaps, an Astute, two Super Astutes a Dyna Storm , a Top Force, a Top Force Evolution and two Terra Conqueror's

 

I love them all, and run them all, but there are issues ,

 

The Madcap and Astute share the same ball diff, it is undersized, hard to find parts for and when found the parts are expensive, it will slip, sooner rather than later, best not to race these unless you go the whole hog and fit something like a A and L lethal Weapon belt drive tranny.

Super Astute, great car, expensive to get parts for, 3D printed parts are available but are expensive also, depending what class of vintage racing you are looking at this may not be your best bet, the internal gearing in the gearbox was designed for very hot modified brushed motors back in the day, in Australia all vintage racing is done with stock silver cans, which eliminates the Super Astute, again unless you go down the A and L tranny route.

 

Dyna Storm, Awesome car, parts availability and prices are difficult, but with patience it can be done, the best racer out of all the above 2wd's, gearbox is strong, front end has some weakness, but 3D printed parts are available, overall a great racer but expensive to maintain racing in the long run.

My suggestion for a best bang for buck racing solution would be a DF-01 4wd, manta ray. top force, terra conqueror, blazing star etc.

The bathtub chassis manta ray is cheaper, parts availability is good, the weak spot is the rear gearbox housing, which cracks, but can be bought brand new for approx. $8 US from Jason's store.

 

Steel pinion, alloy motor mount , alloy hexes, alloy prop shaft are a must for reliability, you can fit front and rear ball diff's for a reasonable price and they are strong, there are many upgrade parts available, some more expensive than others but I think you cannot go wrong .

Universal joints at all four corners are also a must for racing, again Jason sells them for $9 us each, for example Dyna Storm UJ's are very difficult to find, only one seller on ebay has them at the moment, you can run modern UJ's in a Dyna, but more parts are required for the mod, raising costs even further.

I have run my Top Force Evolution for approx. 12 months since a full rebuild, at least 2 packs a week, other than accident damage the only failed part was the rear gearbox housing and the gears are starting to wear, that was running a 8.5 turn brushless on a 2 cell lipo, The  new housing and a gear set bought from the right place was less than $17 us

 

I also own six shot buggies, I really love them too, but from a racing point of view I would only race one in a Hotshot chassis only class of racing, again the bang for buck issues .

 

The above is advice only, if you really want to race a Madcap, do it, it is possible, but some cars will provide you with more headaches and less dollars in your pockets than others

 

[Snappy1]

Here is a great thread regarding the DF-01

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/topic/74421-top-forceish-runner/

[kontemax]

4 hours ago, Roasty said:

Quick question, would a Top Force body fit on the Manta Ray ?

Yes, it fits with minor modifications, the bigger one is the antenna post on the top plastic plate. Or you cut the antenna mount or you open the hole onto the Top Force body.

 

Max

[kontemax]

MADCAP, ASTUTE, SUPER ASTUTE, DYNA STORM

Well, the first thing to understand is concerning the track you will use the models.

If the track is flat you can go with Astute series, if the track is very rough and bouncy the Dyna Storm is the right choice.

Jumps are not an issue, both models handle them well.

 

ASTUTE

If you decide for the flat track the Super Astute is the best of the series so I should go with it. It has a slippery clutch and it can handle brushed motors up to 10 turns. Super Astute is a good looking model but is a rare car with many expensive parts.

The common solution is the custom built model, a mix of the parts of all 3 models.

What you need absolutelly is the FRP chassis plate (carbon is better - Fiber Lyte produce them, choose the 3 mm one), the front Super Astute bulkhead brace, the Madcap or Super Astute rear hubs and the Madcap rear blocks.

Trash away the Astute/Super Astute rear blocks, choose the Madcap ones or some 3D printed one or some aluminum ones (if you find them).

Trash away the Astute rear hubs, they are beautiful but they will break in seconds. There are some enhanced 3D printed ones but yet too complex and heavy. The choice goes to Super Astute and Madcap hubs. Super Astute are identical to Dyna Storm ones but, unless you find the TR15-T grey ones, they are more fragile than the Madcap ones. I would go for these ones.

But, be carefull, the Blitzer Beetle rear hubs seems identical but they are not. The inner ball bearing offset is different. This means two things:

1) if you have the Astute wheel axle or UJs they need a spacer inside.

2) With the Blitzer Beetle rear hubs you can use a modern CVD axle. This would be my final choice.

Arms: the Super Astute are the best ones, for the geometry and the stiffness but if you decide to have softer arms the Madcap arms are perfect. This means that your model will be less precise to drive but at the same time less nervous and less fragile. This could be also a set up choice.

Madcap and Astute have the same transmission. Trash away it. The only choice is the TTC, the Tamita Traction Control of the Super Astute. It is rare and very expensive and need many manteinance and cleaning. The slippery clutch is hard to set up, you must rotate the nut less than 1/5 of turn to have an effective change on the slipperiness.

If you have not this transmission I suggest to replace it directly with another one. I know that there is the Ansmann / CArson transmission that is modern, with slippery clutch, is metric and it costs like the bread, something like 15 €.

I also suggest to read my guides about the Astute. I never published the one concerning the transmission but I wrote it, one day I'll post it.

 

DYNA STORM

If you have a rough and bouncy track this is your choice.

Weak points: rear blocks, bulkhead, front C-hubs, steering links. You can find them 3D printed.

The transmission is bombproof, you can mount it also on the Super Astute if you find one alone without the model.

The Dyna Storm UJs are the same of the Astute series. The front knuckles are the same of the Super Astute and are the best ones of the circus.

Max

[t3garett]

Brilliant info from everyone !

I supose you will just race a stock monster bettle now 

[Roasty]

8 hours ago, t3garett said:

Brilliant info from everyone !

I supose you will just race a stock monster bettle now 

Im taking up Rock crawling LOL

 

[Roasty]

WOW, so much great info, thanks.

I'm going to have a good read of the build threads later to see what I've got todo on a DF-01 chassis, have a brief flick through on my phone it looks great and a nice project to do

 At the moment i can get the Dyna Storm with out the motor and controller for a good price, and I'm also watching DF-01 on flea bay :), i may end up getting both lol

 

Thanks again guys for the great info and help.

 

Ross

 

[Roasty]

An other quick one. Is the blazing star DF01 OK to convert like the manta ray, they look the same.

thanks

Ross

 

[Snappy1]

Yes, the Blazing Star is the same

[Roasty]

6 minutes ago, Snappy1 said:

Yes, the Blazing Star is the same

Awesome, I may have found a new one

 

thanks

 

[kontemax]

11 hours ago, Roasty said:

At the moment i can get the Dyna Storm with out the motor and controller for a good price, and I'm also watching DF-01 on flea bay :), i may end up getting both lol

Concentrate your energies on the Dyna Storm first of all.

 

Max

[Roasty]

6 hours ago, kontemax said:

Concentrate your energies on the Dyna Storm first of all.

 

Max

Unfortunately it sold for £300

ive been offered a brand new built but never used DF01 for £100, does that sound like a good deal ?

im not in a hurry so I don't mind passing it up?

also, l don't mind if I race 2 or 4wd  

[kontemax]

If you want to have both of them, buy what you find and wait a better moment but keep in mind that Dyna Storm is an excellent model (shame on Tamiya that re-released only as a limited item) and it will be always expensive.

Max

[kontemax]

An Astute converted to Super Astute would be a good alternative.

 

Max

[Roasty]

Well if it turns up in the post ( I hope it does ) I've just bought this for £112.00 inc postage.

I'm also watching a super astute for £135, I may have to buy both 😝😝

[kontemax]

11 hours ago, Roasty said:

Well if it turns up in the post ( I hope it does ) I've just bought this for £112.00 inc postage.

I'm also watching a super astute for £135, I may have to buy both

Excellent find the Top Force.

The Super Astute is the green one? It seems in good conditions.

 

Max

[Roasty]

Hi Maxyeah I think I was, I'll post a few better pictures when it arrives, hopefully it's ok

 

yeah as it's the green and white one. The guy had the green one, red one and another up for sale last week for £400 but they didn't sell, I may go for it, I'm waiting for a fishing reel to sell on eBay with should pay for it 😂😂

[kontemax]

I have enough parts to build an Astute but I would like to build a Super Astute.

The arms are the parts that I mostly need to have the Super Astute.

I already have the TTC transmission case, the most rarer part I believe.

 

Max

[Roasty]

So the Top Force arrived today. It looks good for the money and do me just fine.

There are a few bits that don't look correct, well i know the rear camber link are incorrect as they are schumacher ones :). One front "C" hub is cracked, I'm going to replace the diff out drive's and the ball diff's feel like they need a rebuild, not too bad. 

Oh and its ball raced