Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
danb1974

CC-01 lowrider issues

Recommended Posts

So, after much debating with myself, got myself the Pajero Low Rider Special Black edition (because it looks good and I suck at painting)

Had a pretty good ideea of the chassis by reading here and there, not expecting anything of it, just to run and steer. Ball bearings and front CVDs are the only upgrades. At least I can shave the steering angle limiters without fear of popping out bones here and there.

Hit two quality issues I was not expecting (from Tamiya).

First, spur gear assembly is warped; it wobbles, rubbing the chassis and providing inconsistent mesh. See below. Whoopsie, that's a big preview. While I could file down the sides to reduce rubbing, the mesh I don't see how to fix. And there is no guarantee another set of G-parts is better.

Second, pre-drilled front body holes are about 3mm off to the back, forcing the body to misaling with the wheels. Not touching the body, so I'll have to somehow alter the holders (elongate chassis body post holes? somehow modify the body posts? - suggestions welcome)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's quite a wobble! I had a fairly straight spur on my Pajero (MTW), but I had the white G-parts. Maybe a difference in molds?

For the body: My Pajero fit a bit difficult as well, with the body set too far forward. I solved it using some careful Dremeling. Are the front body posts properly aligned? Have you painted it already? Because to me this sounds like a warranty-thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The black edition lowrider comes pre-painted, pre-cut and pre-drilled (that's one of the reasons I've chosen it). So the only way seems to modify front body posts somehow. The mount is already hacked by tamiya, with some generic way-too-long grey body posts and some spacers (chassis has hex holes, body posts are round, spacers are the hack to sort of fit them together - they could at least have used black posts)

I have a faint hope to solve the spur on warranty (not really wanting to shell around 10 gbp for another gear set that may be as warped as this one), but the body seems a bit much to ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where this kit is made from? Philippines?

Is the quality going down?

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't think so. Shaft does not rotate, only spur gear assembly, which is mounted on bearings that sit on the shaft.

I assume somebody did not wait for the plastic to properly cool down before removing from the mold.

So, had to elongate body post hole and file the chassis, so the body post is both back and angled, to get a proper body position. Body holes are seriously misplaced.

Still not getting why an all black prepainted car comes with two grey posts. Has somebody gone that cheap to just pack whatever was available, instead of some assorted mounts?

 

IMG_20160816_220058_HDR.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 You can dye the body mounts.

Please remember me: the wheel arches did not fit with the wheels, right?

The front wheels, the rear wheels or both wheels?

If are the front wheels, are them backwards compared to the front arches?

Many thanks

 

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(Of course I can dye them periodically, as body removal will scratch the paint, but has Tamiya come to this - just drop whatever mounts were handy, no matter the color? on a black special edition? This I expect from rebrands like hk's basher and alike, where I get really cheap cars)

The body has front vertical mounts and rear horizontal mounts, so the fronts decide the horizontal alignment

The body came predrilled. It was sitting around 3-4mm to the front (both front and rear wheels - the wheelbase is correct)

So I had to move back the front body mounts the same amount

Factory seems to predrill the front body holes in the wrong place... wonder how they did on the cover photo car...

(also rear sits too high, and the rear mounts are non adjustable - that's another story)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, the problem is not a wrong hole position on the body but the low
 suspension set up.

Due the caster angle of the kickplate, the front wheels go backward when the suspension is compressed. You don't note this until you don't carefully observe the front suspension movement. At full compression, the front wheels go back. The amount of this movement to the rear end is related with the amount of caster angle degrees. More the degrees, more the wheel moves back.

When Tamiya designed the body its position this was calculated with the fully extended suspensions. If you low ride the suspensions you compress them and you can note the altered position of the front wheels.

I had the same problema with my TA02 Lancia Delta. I decided to increase the damper lenght so I had the opposite situation, the front wheels moved forward. I changed the body position bending the body stays to keep a balance between front and rear wheel arches

Concerning the gray bodymount I suggest you to dye with Rit Dye black tissue color. It's not a paint, the plastic turns black. No more need to paint it.

 

Max

11 hours ago, danb1974 said:

The body has front vertical mounts and rear horizontal mounts, so the fronts decide the horizontal alignment

The body came predrilled. It was sitting around 3-4mm to the front (both front and rear wheels - the wheelbase is correct)

So I had to move back the front body mounts the same amount

Factory seems to predrill the front body holes in the wrong place... wonder how they did on the cover photo car...

(also rear sits too high, and the rear mounts are non adjustable - that's another story)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My lowrider does not seem very affected when compressed compared to normal position.

BTW, this photos are taken with the modified body mounts. So I still think that pre-drilled holes are about 3mm off

Also had to lower read body mounts (using spacers, since they are not adjustable), to look more like "the cover photo". I don't appreciate when the photo on the box is not what you actually get when putting it together.

 

 

IMG_20160817_215106_HDR.jpg

IMG_20160817_215120_HDR.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep in mind that you have half of the total compression because your model is a low rider. If you come back to the original damper lenght you will see the total movement of the wheel.

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any ideea where to get anti-dust sponge spacers - like the xv-01 has - that are placed between ball connectors and link ends? No ideea what they're called (team associated seems to call them ball cup dust cover - p/n ASC6272 - but can't find it on ebay / europe)

Actually no ideea why they aren't included with any non-asphalt kit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. Not so common on ebay/eu but found a source.

In the meantime, hmmm, how to dustproof the motor (rebuildable 18T, so plenty of holes)... oh look, I have some masking tape...

Problem when using a rebuildable motor on this chassis is, there is no space for wires, I had to bend the connectors

IMG_20160825_205844_HDR_zpsu3efe62e.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, if anybody else is choosing this car, these are the new body post positions to get the body sit more or less like in the cover photo. Rear should be a tad lower but did not find suitable spacers in the parts box, and it would require longer screws. Front needs a lot of filing and should also using a tag longer screws.

 

IMG_20160828_210914.jpg

IMG_20160828_210940.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully not a patronising post - are you 100% certain the front C-hubs are correct left-to-right? As being the wrong way around would centre the wheels further backwards from their intended position. 

Furthermore, in one of your pictures you have a body pin in the second-from-lowest position, but the manual asks for the lowest hole position. Because as you point out, the rear height is non-adjustable / fixed, the body won't be sitting level with this setup. It will be canted rearward, which would also explain wheelarch misalignment. 

Lastly, that spur gear wobble is worrying - but it should be noted that the cover forms a very important role of actually securing the bearings in place. Running without the cover will encourage them to try to hop out of their seats.

I think it's actually an optical illusion, as there's a small amount of tolerance on the shaft itself and the whole spur assembly is slightly moving back and forth along it's shaft. It would be interesting to see a comparison video with pressure applied to either end of the spur shaft (in lieu of the cover). I'd wager far less movement in the spur would be observed. 

The spur cover and it's tight fitting is so crucial that if it is left slightly loose, once torque is put through the gearbox it will chew the gears up good and proper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry, even if it's not my first neither my easiest kit (most complex being the axial exo), I do mistakes and correct them at every assembly.

The wheelbase is spot on reported to the body. With the body mounted in the factory position (1) body is misaligned reported to all wheels and (2) it must be forced onto the front posts as they are not aligned with the pre-drilled body holes. So, no wheelbase issue at all.

With front body clip in lowest position, rear body position is way higher than front, and rear is non adjustable (maybe the rear holes are pre-drilled in the wrong position too). Yes the shock travel limiters are mounted inside all shocks - and they make a pretty big difference. No other mistake I can think of.

Spur was visually warped when I took it out of the box, it rubs with cover on (cover carefully tighten, not too much as it would strip the chassis plastics), it can't move front to right with cover off. cc-01 being an entry level kit (technically-wise; bodies are really nice) it seems to use weak plastics and not pay attention to such details.

Also there is way too much slop between spur and the other piece it slides into, that can be fixed with small amounts of tape between the two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, how odd.

Would love to examine it in person, this sort of thing interests me - which is a little bit sad probably.

Have you got it all running to a satisfactory level now? Had a run out of it yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not get one for yourself, it's a quick build, no cutting / sanding / painting involved. Once you hack the body to a lower position to ressemble the official pictures, it looks good. You have to keep in mind that as much as we like (most parts of) tamiya, they are a commercial company and their primary job is to make money. As long as they can get away with sub-par entry level chassis, plastic bushes and spring dampers tucked away under beautiful bodies, they'll do it.

Spur still touches chassis but it's bearable (wrote to the shop I bought it from, still hoping for an answer). Threadlocked shaft and rear diff, build pretty much finished.

Outdoor tests are scheduled soon, not decided if I'll wait for those dust covers (ordered a few sets, have a kemora that also could use some)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First outdoor run.

Being a lowrider and having non-sealed diffs, there is not much choice, they are either wide open or fully locked. Today's run it was with both diffs unlocked. Didn't go well once it left the pavement. Will lock rear axle and try again. Used a small nimh (we're past the half of 2016 and you still can't fit a standard car lipo into many tamiya chassis - funny enough, the battery compartment is smaller than the cw-01 mp/lb chassis, in which a 2s/5000 does fit). Not enough power for the 18T but it adds to the realism since you can't just take off.

Have to deal with normal body rattle, add more foam spacers. Maybe in the next decade rc will move away from body holes, posts and clips to magnetic or other means to firmly attach a body to a chassis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rear end is too light, especially with a 2200 lipo that does not count as weight. Good thing I did not throw that old broken door lock :)

Locked rear diff is much better for traction, but the already big steering radius is not getting any better

IMG_20160902_195553.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One should grease the servo saver and not tighten it too much, or it may bind an not revert to center. Was wondering why steering endpoints moved by themselves.

Shaved the last part of the steering limiters, almost decent now. Too bad I have to keep the rear diff locked. Ground clearance is that of a rally car, due to the suv-like wheels, so it needs every bit of traction it can get.

Got much bigger wheels after a run in wet soil :)

 

IMG_20160906_201051.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now to address steering slop. Which is really bad. Really.

The easy part: ditch the stock open link ends (not that they are open, but they are sloppy, and slop adds up from wheel to servo). Had some closed ends from a tb-03, that happen to be a nice tight fit, while allowing me to use the sponge spacers to keep some dust out.

The hard part (since I lack tools and skill) is to replace somehow the steering plastic tube, which is also super sloppy and will not last long. Mod is described here (replacing with metal tube sitting on bearings) https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=499#.V9BzFTUuOKw

 

IMG_20160907_224943.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rear shocks are too stiff, they don't allow full rear travel before lifting a front wheel. There are no thinner shock adjutment collars in the box, so I borrowed some from the tb-03 leftovers. Much better now.

Took the kemora (1:14 brushless rally) on the same ground I'm playing with the cc-01, well to my surprise kemora is so much better getting over dirt. Not even sure why, about same ground clearance, open diffs, rally tires (not much groove on them). While the cc-01 has to be driven carefully not to remain stuck, the kemora can just rip itself out even if bottomed out. Really a wow moment.

So the cc remains a low-speed scale car, now fitted with the 55t motor to allow good low speed control. That takes out any medium speed action, but in absence of a gearbox, I have to choose what I want from the car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/15/2016 at 3:15 PM, danb1974 said:

First, spur gear assembly is warped; it wobbles, rubbing the chassis and providing inconsistent mesh.

Resurrecting a very old thread!  I started building one of these yesterday and had the exact same issue with the spur gear.  It's the same black part, and the wobble is really pronounced.  I wondered if it might be caused by some flashing on the back faces, as the gear is made by joining to moulded parts together, but after some trimming and sanding it was still just as bad.  I think these parts may not be as good quality as the old white parts.  With the gear cover off and turning by hand, the spur rubs badly on the chassis.  That said, once I'd put the cover on I was able to turn it over without any obvious signs of grinding, but I'll know more later once I've got the rest of the drivetrain together and I can turn it over properly.

It doesn't actually bother me if it grinds, this one is being built for the shelf and will likely never run under its own power (unless I get bored in a few years and turn it in to a rally raid car).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...