Serge the seal of death 2 Posted August 22, 2016 Hello All So dad of a 8 year old here who is educating his son that Tamiya's are the best RC cars, and wallowing in nostalgia of my own teenage years, Why oh Why did I sell my Hornet and Monster beetle!! Anyway we bought my Son a Mad Bull XP, I Know its cheating but it was a great price kit that had the 2.4GHZ receiver all in and saved a load of money over buying the kit form, however this does mean I am rather rusty in supporting the machine, so would like some basic advice as we have now used and abused machine. basic story is that Wheelie (name my son gave to the car) was getting slower and slower, thought its probably the battery gone but new batteries have not really restored him to his former glory, now suspect the motor is cooked, he likes to drive it on grass and in bark chippings, the motor is a 540J, so my basic questions. I plan to replace this with a torque tuned motor, not huge speed improvement but suitable I think, but should I replace the pinion 17t gear as well with something a bit harder? Seems motor cleaning sprays are recommended, HPI cleaning spray, is it worth it, must admit we never did anything to the old one, probably why its cooked. Diffs and gears, lube or not to lube, The gear box casing broke and I took it all apart to replace, but did not really put on any lube, should I, what to use or just use the HPI. Also if you were to recommend a new rerelease to me, Dad what would it be, I am thinking of buying a Hornet again or maybe the releases Monster beetle to keep my son company, anything else worth recommendations or should I stick with my nostalgic views. Cheers Serge the seal , (Oxfordshire) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backlash 481 Posted August 22, 2016 Hi and welcome to Tamiyaclub.. If you want to familiarise yourself with the chassis a little more, (even though you replaced the gear casing) then I would suggest buying a set of ball races / ball bearings for the car and fitting those in the front wheels and in the gearbox/rear wheels.. Ball races will cut down on the rolling resistance over the stock bushings, and will increase life span to the car as well as give a small increase in speed and run time.. The gears do not need to be packed with grease, they just need a fine coating or film over the teeth.. The Torque Tuned motor would be a suitable replacement.. If you are going to replace the motor, then yes a steel pinion gear would be a good upgrade at that time.. Brushed motors do wear out, and if he is running in a heavy load area like grass or sand, then that wear will be increased, and the motors life will be shortened.. If the motor is getting really hot (i.e. overheated) because of the grass then the motors magnets could be losing some of their strength, and that will also cause the motor to slow down.. You could try cleaning the motor, but remember to put a drop of oil on the bushings at each end of the motor where the motor shaft exits after cleaning.. A light oil such as 3 in 1 or sewing machine oil would be suitable for the motor bushings. Just be careful NOT to get any oil inside the motor on the brushes or commutator.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Ax 9313 Posted August 22, 2016 Welcome to Tamiyaclub Backlash's advice is sound, go with that. As for what grease to use on the gears, you want something thick enough to form a film rather than something thin line 3-in-1. It should be something safe to use on plastics so it doesn't attack the gears or casing. Regular axle grease is probably fine, although I always use Tamiya grease because I have millions of left over grease tubes from Tamiya kits. 3-in-1 is fine for the bushing at the end of the motor and for metal wheel bearings. And as for what to get for yourself - well, the world is your oyster! The Hornet chassis is approximately similar to the Mad Bull chassis, although with smaller wheels. If you're running on grass then the Hornet might get hung up a lot. The Monster Beetle is a different animal with much bigger wheels and should handle grass without too much trouble, but being more top-heavy, it will flip over more often. There's a whole host of other great Tamiya cars to try too, and if you can't decide between them, you should just buy them all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serge the seal of death 2 Posted August 22, 2016 Yep, loved my beetle. Motor, bearings and pinion on order, and like the idea of the hornet being so similar to the Mad bull, would also make a suitable hand me down to my son / daughter / wife when I upgrade to something else. Ohh the hours I spent in the beatties in Newbury in my youth! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fuijo 880 Posted August 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Serge the seal of death said: basic story is that Wheelie (name my son gave to the car) was getting slower and slower, thought its probably the battery gone but new batteries have not really restored him to his former glory, now suspect the motor is cooked, he likes to drive it on grass and in bark chippings, the motor is a 540J, so my basic questions. It will just be brush and commutator wear and a build up of carbon. Not much you can do as it isn't designed to be dismantled. A replacement 540j will see it back to the way it was. But by all means upgrade the motor if you like. Welcome to the forums! Prepare to be poorer than you were! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dojo Dave 889 Posted August 22, 2016 THE GF01 is a cool 4wd chassis, I've wanted one foe a while but things get in the way like buying other things I want but don't need. It's a big wheel unit has a few different versions, the Heavy Dump truck and the fj pick up are pretty cool, or you could go old school and pick up a wild willy 2, or a hot shot if you want an old school buggy with 4wd. I love my hot shot rere. I couldn't decide do I bought all the ones I wanted, now I don't have Space in my garage due to the 32 cars I have amassed. Help. My name is DID and I have a Tamiya Addiction. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbi1977 1793 Posted August 22, 2016 If you are getting in to it then look at buying a fast charger and LiPo batteries. NiMh are frustratingly short on run time and heavy. I will chip in with the WR-01 (Blackfoot extreme / mudblaster) great cars and a good upgrade for Son when you upgrade again. I find Madbulls cook motors on grass because it tends to be full throttle until the battery dies so there is no cooling off time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burakol 462 Posted August 23, 2016 I have a GF01 that I let my 4yo son drive... I just need to make sure to trim the epa for both forward/reverse on my receiver to minimize the wheelies and abrupt movement... I find him better driving it that my TT02 since it has a short wheelbase and can easily turn even in tight spots... and sonce it is a 4wd, it can easily drive on any surface even on untrimmed lawn... I only run it using the stock esc and torque tuned motor on a NiMH and it satisfies me... eventually I will probably try to out a brushless setup... I am also debating if I should actually get another one with the Heavy dump shell as my son's rc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Effigy3 1267 Posted August 23, 2016 +1 to Backlash's advice. Torque Tuned is probably your best best for that Mad Bull. Grass can really cook a motor. I toasted a 15T within 3 battery packs running my Arrma Fury short course truck in my close cut grass back yard. At least torque Tuned motors are cheap as chips so replacing them isn't really all that painful. You might find a proper break in helps them last a bit longer. I prefer the water break in method myself. When I first did this video I ran the motor underwater for waaaaay longer than I needed so I added some corrections to the video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backlash 481 Posted August 23, 2016 Serge, I use a method similar to the "water dipping" break in method that Effigy3 posted above to clean my sealed 540 "silver can" motors.. I use a jar that is a bit taller than a Coke/soft drink can, and fill it 2/3 with warm tap water (enough water to completely submerge the motor ).. I then add a few drops of dishwashing detergent to the water.. I then power the motor with a 7.2 Volt battery that is almost flat, and then dunk the motor into the jar of water and allow it to run for 10-15 seconds.. You should see the water soap up and turn a dirty grey colour as it cleans all the crud from the motor.. I then disconnect the motor from the battery, remove it from the jar and then rinse the motor under a running tap to remove any excess soap residue.. After rinsing, shake any excess water from the motor and place it out in the sun to dry.. Place a drop of light oil on the bushings at each end of the motor whilst being careful not to get any oil inside the motor, and refit it to the car ready for its next outing.. There is no guarantee that cleaning will fix the motor, but if the motor is almost shot anyway, it cant really do any harm either... PLEASE NOTE.. The reason for "water dipping" the motor when it is new, is that the arc in the face of the motor brushes will not match the arc of the commutator, and you will get a poor electrical contact between the brush and the commutator which can cause excessive electrical arcing and burning of the commutator (i.e. damage the commutator).. The water dipping process accelerates the wear on the motors brushes during the running in period, allowing the brush to get a better contact on the commutator without all of the arcing and burning, which can improve motor performance and life... HOWEVER... When you use the "water dipping" method to clean your motor, you will also be accelerating the brush wear during the cleaning process, and if you leave the motor in the water too long, or after cleaning the motor many times, you can in fact wear the brushes out completely.. (Ask me how I know.. LOL. ) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted August 23, 2016 Welcome! As a Mad Bull owner myself, I think you made an excellent choice there. I run rubber-sealed bearings from RCbearings.co.uk in mine. I can heartily recommend them. I also run a Sport Tuned motor and steel pinion, which give sprightly performance without being uncontrollably fast or draining the battery too quickly. Fastrax oil shocks are another worthwhile upgrade, making the ride far less bouncy and more controlled. As for a car of your own, I would steer clear of the Hornet. It is a great-looking car with an important place in Tamiya history but as a running companion for the Mad Bull it has some drawbacks. It is far narrower and lower, so it rolls more easily and gets stuck more easily. It would struggle to keep up with a Mad Bull in stock form. If you really want one, I would suggest that you monsterise it like Nitomor has done with his: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted August 23, 2016 IMO, the best running companion for a Mad Bull suggested so far is the WT-01. Before I bought my Mad Bull, I did a lot of research, and in the end my shortlist contained the WT-01 and the Mad Bull. I chose the Bull due to its slightly lower price, but the WT-01 features more advanced suspension and is thus no doubt worth the extra few quid. Like the Mad Bull, it is wide and stable, with plenty of ground clearance and good off-road performance. It shares the Mad Bull's excellent reputation for strength and robustness, and ought to shrug off the majority of impacts without damage. It can also take a wide variety of bodyshells, including the Monster Beetle shell which looks great on it IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted August 23, 2016 Here is Terz1's example: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted August 23, 2016 As for a re-release Monster Beetle, again I would steer clear. They have the looks and the history, but judging by the thread on them, they have many issues as stock runners: If you have good memories of your original, rather keep them unsullied by unpleasant experiences with the re-re. Unless you like the challenge of fixing it's flaws of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backlash 481 Posted August 25, 2016 On 23/08/2016 at 4:59 AM, TurnipJF said: As for a car of your own, I would steer clear of the Hornet. It is a great-looking car with an important place in Tamiya history but as a running companion for the Mad Bull it has some drawbacks. It is far narrower and lower, so it rolls more easily and gets stuck more easily As for a re-release Monster Beetle, again I would steer clear. They have the looks and the history, but judging by the thread on them, they have many issues as stock runners: If you have good memories of your original, rather keep them unsullied by unpleasant experiences with the re-re. Unless you like the challenge of fixing it's flaws of course. Unfortunately it seems that TurnipJF has missed the point and the whole idea about buying a re-re kit.. Its not about buying a better handling more modern chassis. Its more about reliving the excitement of your youth, or owning a car/buggy that you wanted when you were younger, but couldn't afford back then.. The re-re's spare parts have also allowed many people to resurrect that old vintage buggy that has been sitting unused in the back of their cupboard or loft for many years into something that they can once again enjoy.. Personally I think that the re-re are great in that they allow us to do that, complete with many of the "shortcomings" that they had back then.. If you are interested in a Monster Beetle, be aware that Tamiya did correct the issue with the hex type drives hafts buy fitting the re-releases with dog bones.. However it does appear that they failed to address the issue with the differential in the gearbox.. BUT all is not lost, as some members have come up with some answers to these problems.. Old Frogshots diff Mod..http://tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=24674&sid=3142 Mheld's solution.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnipJF 9192 Posted August 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Backlash said: Unfortunately it seems that TurnipJF has missed the point and the whole idea about buying a re-re kit.. Its not about buying a better handling more modern chassis. Its more about reliving the excitement of your youth, or owning a car/buggy that you wanted when you were younger, but couldn't afford back then. Not at all. I understand that some may want to relive their youth through a re-re, however the OP asked for recommendations for a vehicle to keep his son company as he drives his Mad Bull. A Mad Bull is often recommended for its reliability - a recommendation I can echo from personal experience. In my mind, a good running companion for it would be similarly reliable. The Monster Beetle thread to which I directed the OP indicates that it has issues with reliability in stock form. It would be remiss of me not to point this out. However I also freely acknowledge that some might enjoy sorting said issues, hence the concluding line of my earlier post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darat76 265 Posted August 28, 2016 The kit I'd recommend getting to run along side the mad bull would be either the blitzer beetle of you badly want the beetle shell or the stadium blitzer, both are the same chassis, easy to build, easy to maintain, and can take stupidly high powered motors and not miss a beat. The build is simple, yet the chassis handles well in both the speed and cornering, and the gearbox is nigh on bullet proof like the mad bull. Just build it with a steel pinion, and bearings, then after a bit of running, start going for faster motors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problemchild 2149 Posted August 29, 2016 get a rere monster beetle you will smile ALL day long JJ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serge the seal of death 2 Posted September 5, 2016 Cheers for all the comments, so as an update Torque motor fitted, full bearing set and an heat sink for the motor, and the car is back and better then ever, old motor was really cooked, so the torque tuned has made a huge difference, and the bearings have really improved the handling, so Thanks. Will be back when I decide what to buy, thinking a CC01 in the 4WD version might be fun! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
