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briscaF1

Wild Willy M38 questions

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Hi,


First time poster here, so please be gentle ;)

 

I've been given (my son has, to be precise) a Wild Willy M38 which I've been told was first purchased in 1989. It's mostly built and painted (except for the driver) and is in remarkably good condition despite being 'run' with no scratches, scrapes or knocks. For example, the tyres still have the mould flashing on them so I doubt they've seen much use.

 

As to me, I've got some experience with RC cars (Mardave, oval) as I raced them for a short time many years ago but I'm a total Tamiya/buggy novice (I did covet the Hornet back in the 80s, though!)

 

I have some questions, if anyone can please help.

 

1. Gearbox.

This felt a bit stiff when I first tried to turn it so I sprayed some 3 in 1 light oil into the hole which made things better. I eventually opened it up to check the teeth etc, which all appear to be fine and soaked the parts in synthetic car engine oil (it's what I had to hand) and put it all back together again. It now runs very smoothly indeed.

Was that OK or should I have oiled/greased it with something different?

 

2. Diff

This is my main area of concern. If I turn one wheel, or the other, it all feels very nice and smooth but if I turn both wheels forward or backwards (at the same time), it feels relatively smooth with a bit of resistance from 'stationary' that I think is a bit more than overcoming the motor magnets.

I did try to split the diff but one of the two directly opposing screws doesn't release so I guessed something inside is broken?

Otherwise, if I drive the car, it all works OK without any slipping or odd noises except for a clunk going off/on the throttle (or when changing direction) as there is about 1/8th of a turn of slack when changing direction if I watch the knuckle joint between the diff and gearbox.

Should these be greased with Moly/graphite or is it OK to just use oil ?

Any general advice here would be a great help since I don't want to destroy the diff.

 

3. Battery

Unsurprisingly, the NiCds were not in great condition and held charge for about 30s. I've since purchased some 3700mAh VP racing tagged NiMHs (along with a charger) and soldered them up into a humpback set. As such, the car now runs! However, is there any shrinkwrap that can be obtained to package the humpback neatly or is it a case of taping them up?

 

4. Motor

I presume the motor is original. It has a black end and grey shrinkwrap around it which is consistent with the instructions. I've read that this may be a RS540-SD which could make it 27T or 23T...can anyone tell me for sure? Also, is it worth getting inside this to clean it or is it best to leave it if it is working?

 

5. Radio set

The radio set (receiver) doesn't have a BEC but I thought about making one out of a Schottky diode, a big cap and a 5V regulator (I presume it's 5V supply). In the end, I decided against it in case I blew something up or it all went horribly wrong. Any recommendations on how to get rid of the ob board 4x AA cells without changing the radio gear?

 

6. Speed control.

Despite it being built to the instructions, the speed controller doesn't behave. On full throttle (stick pushed all the way forward), the motor cuts out so I suspect the servo/arm geometry is wrong and I can't adjust it out. Is this a known problem?


Otherwise, I wouldn't mind fitting an electronic ESC to it for learning purposes (I may start RC racing again once the kids are old enough to go). Any recommendations for a cheap one to start with that would suit the motor?

 

7. Use

It's a shame to use it but that's what it's intended for! In this case, I thought about getting a rough shell to put on it that doesn't matter if it gets knocked about + a perspex “bumper” to bolt to the original to protect it and the front wheels. Any recommendations on a shell, especially one that may give it a different look?

 

8. Fusing

No fuse on this which I found surprising. Is it a good idea to have one in the main battery line?

 

9. Spares.

Are spares readily available for this model? I see that it has some compatibility with some rally models and diff gears etc were in stock although some parts were out of stock (is this permanent?)

 

Once again, thanks for any help and advice that people can spare and it's great to see such a great following for these old buggies.

Thanks,

D

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Hi D welcome.

Nice catch, the original Willy isnt the most technicaly advanced car, bit over designed, but sure the most fun one of its time.

first of, did you manage to find a manual? (pm me your email I can send you a scan)

There are two types of the 'vintage' WW, recognised easiest if you look at the side of the car, oldest one (SWB) has a round hole in the metal rear arm bracket the later version (LWB) a slot.

addkonU_seU2uypew9-Yu4-zFbbiLBCN0FK6AMRg    4sV2jn0GOp9dbab7L_zjHST9J_k9hY6x-PQH9TAp

1 and 2, best is probably to clean the diff and gearbox from old sticky greasy.

4. motor sounds its the original, don't tamper with that one they are not ment to be taken apart, you wont find replacement and only this type will fit.

5 - 8 if you are going to run it, to keep it into pieces best with a 6V 5cell NiMh (lower speed but enough to wheelie), an ESC (quicrun 1060) and maybe a more modern radio like 2.4

VLbUTHcsssdDRutT0eTBLsFfPxYdcyist3xkpIu4

left is the re release on the right well guess. ;)

9. spares will be difficult for the chassis (hardly anything in regular shops, 99% ebay and collectors), you can get the body (slightly modified, dont ruin the original front grill its precious) from the 2000 re release. new tires are the worst part those only excist in dreams. Some parts can be gotten 3D printed from Shapeways.

zX14y1_73wsA2RvmbGXkadqDcnOYgBJUl0Vl4YM6

Search the forum for Willy M38 SWB or LWB you will find loads of intel.

 

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Hi Waterbok and thanks for the reply.

I'll try to answer each item in turn.

I do have the paper manual but thank you very much for the offer - in fact, the entire kit is in the box including the original paints etc and the moulding placeholders, unused heat shrink etc. A bit of a time capsule...!

It's a longer wheelbase model (it has the lot slot in the trailing arm metal mount); I did read up on this the other day as I thought the SWB version did not last long before being re-issued (?)

1 and 2.

OK, that's very good to know. Is there a trick to splitting the diff? In other words, do I have to disassemble the entire back axle or is there a short cut? Also, is it normal for one of the directly opposing screws to not release as in the first post (it has threadlock on it but is turning..just won't screw out). Once I get it open, is there anything I should look for in terms of teeth or bush wear / damage?

I've seen a diff gear replacement kit somewhere for about 7 quid so I guess these parts are still around?

4.

The motor is a special for this model? Any old 540 won't fit? That's surprising to me. I'll leave it well alone if that's the case.

5-8

Thanks for the advice on the cells/ESC. It's not actually that quick with the 6 cells but I take your point on it assisting in not getting destroyed and it would be easier for a child to control. It would also make forming a pack easier, I guess. Just out of interest, what kind of capacity would the original battery set have? (Back in the day, I used to buy Sanyo yellow sticks when I used to race but have no idea of the capacity so can't compare).

For the photo, it looks very much like the one on the right (tyres, body etc) but does have a spring loaded front bumper with no damage on it. As I said, I was going to bolt some much wider, sacrificial perspex to it to protect the entire front end.

 

Thanks very much for the reply and heads up - I'll go looking.

 

I'll try to take some photos of it tomorrow to give an idea of the condition. If someone tells me it's mint, I might just give it back/put it back into storage as I know it's going to get wrecked and I'd rather buy something newer/better to sacrifice for the kids to destroy.

 

Cheers,

D

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Oooh nice, manual, box, the works, very collectible.

Yes pictures are always nice for us addicts ;)

The diff should come apart if at least one of the opposing screws comes out, best to have a good look at the manual and remove the rear axle + gearbox, is a bit of revers engineering but fun.

Carefull on the screws, there is alot of brass (soft) used if I remember correctly.

Gears etc should be ok, as said pretty much overdesigned, main problem is old grease getting sticky, nothing a good cleanup cant solve.

On the motor its the black plastic endbell thats the bummer, only found on this type of motor (well there are two others from the same era red and blue), all modern 540 silvercans would need an adapter solution.

Dont attach anything to the bumper those are rare too and due to age might brake easely, if you are going to run better get the wide bumper from the rerelease.

The original batteries didnt had much mAH, but with an 3700 and an ESC it should run for ages

NiCD01.jpg

 

 

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10 hours ago, briscaF1 said:

I did read up on this the other day as I thought the SWB version did not last long before being re-issued (?)

 

11 hours ago, waterbok said:

VLbUTHcsssdDRutT0eTBLsFfPxYdcyist3xkpIu4

left is the re release on the right well guess. ;)

Forgive me guys :) I'm going to be "that truly annoying pedantic guy" just for a moment...(though some might say "all year")...

In 1982 "Wild Willy Willys M38" was released (the car on the right in the above photo). This has never been "reissued", it was in continuous production from 1982 to about 1988. It came in two types (but Tamiya never told anyone that the kit changed), a fact collectors spotted many years later and which became known as the "SWB" type (Short Wheelbase) and LWB type (Long Wheelbase). The SWB type is the earlier one. The LWB first appeared a couple of years into the production run of the model, and the changes were made to give the car more stability. The SWB type is also more rare, and in NIB form, now worth up to US$2000, while NIB examples of the LWB type have hit peak values not too far behind (say $1500).

Sometime around 1999 or 2000 (I'd have to check the Tamiya Perfect Guide for the year) "Wild Willy 2" was released (the car on the left in the above photo). This was an entirely new model - billed as a sequel, not a rerelease (much like Grasshopper -> Grasshopper II, Hotshot --> Hotshot II etc). It's a completely different car underneath, apart from having a similar body shell (though still pretty different) to the original. This car is still in production I believe, and must by now (after 16 years) be Tamiya's longest ever running model. It can still be bought NIB everywhere for about $100-$200. 

For everything else, waterbok has covered it all superbly.

10 hours ago, briscaF1 said:

If someone tells me it's mint, I might just give it back/put it back into storage as I know it's going to get wrecked and I'd rather buy something newer/better to sacrifice for the kids to destroy.

You mentioned earlier that your Wild Willy has near new tyres - this alone is reason to look after it and not let the kids destroy it :P

Seriously, whatever you do, take care of it. No harm in careful running and enjoyment. But even a new in packet pair (just a pair) of original Wild Willy tyres is now worth ~$200. You own one of Tamiya's greatest classics. The only way to "safely" let the kids run rampant with it, while keeping it original/complete/unbroken, would be to spend some months (and considerable $) investing in some original spares for it. That way you could enjoy the heck out of it in vintage form - whilst knowing you have backups of key parts (body, tyres etc) should they wear/break. This can be done, but requires dedication.

Alternatively, be gentle with it, and otherwise enjoy it on the shelf. And buy something else (newer and cheaper) for the kids to mess with.

If you ever plan to sell the Wild Willy, note that the more original it is (right down to the MSC), the more attractive it will be to most collectors.

H.

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Hi D, Welcome to TamiyaClub..

I am going to go one step further than Hibernaculum, and suggest that you buy your son a more modern kit such as a Mad Bull, or if he likes the idea of doing wheelies, a Wild Willy 2 or a Lunchbox that you can buy spare parts for while he is learning to drive..

In all honesty, the cost to buy the replacement parts from one good crash of the Wild Willy could easily exceed the cost of any of the kits that I have listed above..

Put the Wild Willy on the shelf until he is old enough to appreciate it for what it is, and when he has gained some driving experience, then maybe take it out for a light spin.. Either that or sell the Wild Willy to a collector and put those funds towards a new setup for your son, and maybe even one for yourself...

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Hi all,

Thanks for the advice and it was just what I expected. The more I think about it (not to mention the advice given), the more I think I'm better off not allowing this to get trashed.

Just to get an idea of the condition, here are some images (next post)...if I can get the image links working!

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What do you think?

Also, on the subject of a 'sacrificial' / starter car, I like the ideas provided like the Mad Bull, Pumpkin etc.

I suppose I have some questions about these that may be better off in the general area but you guys seem very knowledgeable so maybe they're OK here?

I'd like something that can be used to hone driving skills rather than 'stunts' because I think the novelty would wear off quite quickly and it'll get used on the road mostly and it rolling over etc will end up with it being wrecked quickly. But all that's just because I'm an old fart, I guess.

In one way, I'd like to get something that might be used 'entry' or 'junior' level at a buggy club but I suspect none of the suggested items are really that suitable for this. Or are they?

All in all, I suppose the Mad Bull is the best option especially if I get some ball races for it but what puts me off a bit is that it looks unprotected at the front and might be easily damaged? I say this also because some reviews I have seen suggest that it's not the best to steer and not the strongest design.

What are the thoughts on this, please?

Thanks for all the help,

D

PS; What are the thoughts on the Neo Fighter and Neo Scorcher?

 

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Oh wow, WOW, thats is a very nice looking M38, so shiney and a great looking box (those are almost worth as much as the car, not kidding). And an intact front grill, ace!

I even thought it still had its wrapping around the wheelie bar :rolleyes: One thing I noticed but I am not sure it looks like super glue was used on the tires/rims.

Madd Bull is a good starter, runs on almost anything, you could drop in a high turn brushed motor to make it slower (dito with other cars)

If you like a fun car to drive, the re release Wild Willy can take a beating too and its a good racer as well (imo), on the right surface it can drift and slide, do donuts, survives rolls etc, to keep the nose down you could put some weight up front. And have a look at youtube there are some very nice video's with Willy, the tamiya wheelie models are very versatile (think that came out of a Tamiya commercial ;)). And if you are going to keep the M38 as a valued classic you defo need the rere.

Neo fighter (DT03) and Scorcher are nice if you have a track, places like on a lawn/gras, gravel or beach are less optimal. You could try them with bigger wheels like Tamiya did with the Mad Bull. The DT03 also is a kids racing class car.  I think I broke more parts running a DT02 then I did with my rere Willy (actually sofar nothing damaged, it does have the big bumper), same track similar speed. Mmm I gues I am a bit biased when it concerns Willy :D

 

 

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Hi Waterbok,

Interesting comments! :)

Why do you think the wheels have been superglued? If it's to do with the green colour on the rubber, it's child's paint as I was running it on the grass where they had been painting.

There is wrapping on the wheelie bar but it's a tiny bit chewed.

The guy who gave it to me said that he'd run it quite a bit but I can't see how unless he was very, very careful with it. Anyway, I've decided to give it back as it's too valuable not to.

Thanks

D

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Its not the green but the white fog/dust thats around the front left rim on the 11th picture but it could be just optical illusion.

So not a keeper, hope it gets to run around a bit more though.                  

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lets hope it will live long and prosper. :ph34r:

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I have a M38 (LWB) that was bought for €40 and a complete shed. I rebuilt it and spent a fortune on rare parts. Some WW2 parts (The winch for example and driver) but the tyres. Boy, if i had €1 for every forum post i see asking for tyres, bemoaning the price people demand for NIP vintage tyres and the lack of alternatives or replacements.

If this where mine....I would clean it up, stick it on a shelf (on blocks) and buy my son a WW2 to bash. Only because i know the costs and headaches of restoration :D

 

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Hi all

:D @ the dog.

There was some white dust on the tyre when I got it but I don't think it has been glued.

A sad day but I agree - it deserves to be shown off, not run into the ground.

I just hope modern models haven't been got to by the bean counters who seem to invariably run development departments these days and who insist on everything being under engineered.

Thanks

D

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