Mad Bull (first Tamiya build) questions, please

[briscaF1]

Hi all,

After deciding to return the Wild Willy to its donor (see vintage section), it's been recommended that a Mad Bull is a good choice for a first Tamiya build.

The buggy will be for a 5 year old (maybe it's a bit old for him, I know) so it needs to be robust, durable, easy to drive and not so fast that it can be easily destroyed; I guess the battery lasts longer will be more useful than the buggy being rapid, too.

With respect to this:

a. Where is a good place to buy this model from in the UK?

b. Are there any "must have" upgrades for the model, like ball races? I guess I'm asking if anything is available to make it stronger or to run longer.

c. I have some cells but no radio gear. Any recommendations, especially with regards to "two sticks" or "wheel" types. Is this just personal preference but which may be better for small hands?

d. If I buy a kit without an ESC, is the Hobbywings 1060 (as suggested elsewhere for the Willy) a good choice for this model?

e. I'll have no trouble building the kit but I'll be hopeless at painting it...are there any good hints or guides for doing this?

f. Before I commit, would anyone recommend a Neo 2WD or 4WD over the Mad Bull ? (It had been suggested to get a Lunch Box for the Wheelie capability but I'm not sure about the novelty factor wearing off)

Thanks for any help.

D

 

 

 

[GregM]

Welcome to TC!

b. Ball bearings are a must.
You can add oil dampers (Tamiya 50519 front, 50520 rear), but you don't have to. For a 5 year old, I'd suggest staying with the stock friction dampers, they are fine enough for the job, and the bounce may add to the enjoyment. They are also way easier to maintain, no messy oil getting spilled and all.

c. my opinion: Wheel type radios are easier for small hands. They are also more readily available and often cheaper than stick radios, since the latter is today mostly used in R/C flight models.

f. The Mad Bull can go over rougher terrain than both the Neo Fighter Buggy and the Neo Scorcher, thanks to its big wheels. It won't get stuck so easily. The limited gearing options and more complex drivetrain of the Neo Fighter Buggy doesn't really allow for Monster wheels of similar size, since the added strain will cook the motor. I don't know about the Neo Scorcher's gearing options, but this is a touring car chassis in it's heart, so the gearing may be more suited to buggy size and touring car size wheels.

[Nobbi1977]

There was a good deal on eBay a few weeks back on Madbulls

[Scouser]

I got my Mad Bull from Goldstar Stockists without esc and it was  £64. I picked up a waterproof speedo and some bearings at the same time. My seven yearold daughter and my three year old son each drive the car around the garden and I can definitely recommend the Mad Bull for this task. It can certainly take the abuse. 

I have a wheel type controller and both my kids can use it ok.my three year old likes me to do the steering but my daughter is really quite good at controlling the car all by herself. 

Hope this helps. 

[Backlash]

Please let me try and answer your questions..

A. I'm from Australia, so I'm not aware of that many hobby shops in the UK, so may I suggest supporting one of Tamiyaclubs sponsors?? TimeTunnel Models or Fusion Models..

The only other Only other hobby shop that I'm aware of in the UK is Modelsport UK..

B. Yes Ballraces are a must have... You may also consider buying a steel motor pinion gear to replace the stock aluminium one that will wear out quite fast. The other thing that I would suggest is an AC/DC Fast Charger that you can use at home and also from your car if you are out..

C. Radios are personal preference.. Wheel radios are probably easier for smaller hands though (as mentioned by others)..

D. Yes, the HobbyWing Quickrun would be a suitable choice..

E. Painting- Yes, use Tamiya Spray Paints, and stick with only one colour.. LOL..

F. The Madbull is often suggested for younger members mainly due to its simplistic 2wd design, and because of its bigger tyres which give the buggy stability and the ability to drive over grass etc..

Given your dislike for painting, may I suggest looking at the XB Pro Madbull that comes Pre Built.. You will still need to disassemble the model to fit the ball races, but it does take care of many of the other questions that you have asked.. (I would suggest that you buy a fast charger though)..

http://www.goldstarstockists.net/live/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Mad%20bull&sort=2a&page=2

http://www.fusionhobbies.com/results/1/1/21?sCriteria=mad+bull&sSearchButton=Go&sSearch=Search

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/index.php?search=1&search_string=madbull+&x=0&y=0

 

[Backlash]

One more thing...

If you decide to buy a kit and have a choice of radio gear, may I suggest buying a 2.4 GHz set over an older crystal radio..

My reason is twofold..

1. With crystal radios, you have a problem if you are trying to run 2 (or more) models together that they cant be on the same channel or frequency.. Yes, you can buy other crystals to get different channels or frequencies, but with the newer 2.4GHz technology, you don't have to worry about them being on the same channel..

2. Its about the antenna on the radio controller.. Older crystal radios usually have a long metal antenna that is easily broken by "kids" when its being raised or lowered, or if it comes into contact with other things like tree branches, car doors, etc.. or having them stick the tip in some ones eye....... 2.4 GHz generally have a much shorter antenna, so it removes some of these issues..

[briscaF1]

Hi everyone,

Excellent advice and info, thanks to all.

Thanks for the heads up on the Gold star stockists, Scouser - I think that's the cheapest price I've seen the Bull at. I'll have to get in touch with them because I think, even with the kit upgrade, it might be a servo short.

Totally unsure on the make of the radio gear (but thanks to everyone suggesting wheels are better for smaller hands as well as the not getting an eye poked out antenna plus point), though. The last time I bought a set, it was about 1985 and I think it was a 2-ch Futaba Attack R. I don't mind spending a bit extra on the radio if its going to last / be usable in the future should they advance to entry level racing so what would be a good choice? I think the Gold star's deals involve Carson, Etronix or Spektrum...(I guess I need to get to a local model shop to try them out...)

Thanks,

D

 

[i_am_scarecrow]

A Madbull is a great choice for kids and adults too! My kids and I have one or two between us!

 

 

As for painting, if you want some help feel free to send it my way-

 

 

I can't get enough of them!

[mad maz]

Top work on paint jobs boss

[briscaF1]

They all look good but the middle one is top banana. Love it!

[Nobbi1977]

The Turnigy 5x in a very small stick radio. My 4 and 6 year old both get on well with it. 

[TurnipJF]

Can't really add much that hasn't been said already, apart from to warn against the Carson radios bundled with Goldstar's kits. I got one, and was very disappointed with the build quality, very plasticky and toylike, with poor quality mouldings, poor stick feel and a general air of cheap Chinese tat. I got the stick one, my mate got the wheel one and it is the same quality wise. They both work, but they feel horrible!

 

 

My other mate who is very into his RCs uses a Spektrum radio. It wasn't cheap - I'm think he said it cost close to a hundred quid - but the quality is waaaaay better, and it has a lot of useful features like model memories, endpoint adjustment, etc. Probably overkill for a kid's model, but perhaps a lower spec Spektrum with fewer features but comparable build quality would be worthwhile?

[GregM]

I've got decent experiences with the Carson Reflex Wheel Pro LCD (original model, receiver lacks BEC) and Reflex Wheel Pro 2 LCD (same transmitter model, but bundled with a BEC receiver). My better half thinks it fits her hands good. But I agree that even if feeling way better than the cheaper GT2-style transmitters, it isn't top of the line. I don't know much about the current Reflex Wheel Pro 3, but I can imagine the leverage due to the offset wheel may affect durability.

If I had the cash to spend on their pricey extra receivers, I would have gone for Futaba, Sanwa or Spektrum in hindsight.

 

From all the transmitters I had in possession so far, no one beats my old Acoms Technisport 2.4 G II, though, both in look and feel.

[Bigstinka]

My Madbull came with a hard white plastic shell so I just let my 4 year old colour it in with marker pens. Not very proper but made her happy. 

[briscaF1]

Not a bad idea letting them colour it in for themselves...!

Tricky decision on the radio because I could think that I'll just get something cheap and nasty because it's likely to get knocked about/dropped and I'll be unlikely to be running it with more than one model for the foreseeable future plus unlikely to get overly angry if it's destroyed through the usual child-related accidents.

Then again, if I buy something more robust and with some future-proofing....

On the subject of radios, am I right in thinking that...

1. For 2.4 GHz, not all transmitters will work with all receivers (i.e. different manufacturers) due to the frequency hopping element etc? (or do they generally use the same chipsets to do this?). Presumably you do some pairing of tx and rx ?

2. Any ESC will work with any receiver (because it, simplistically, is converting PWM input from the rx to PWM output to the motor) ? (And that goes for a modern ESC with an old AM 27MHz radio set, too)

3. All servos will work with any receiver for the reason above?

4. Is there any mileage in paying for metal gear servos in a model or are the servo savers on modern Tamiya's good enough to protect even cheapo servos? Also, I was thinking that with the Mad Bull having large front tyres (unlike a grasshopper, for example), it may require more torque.

Thanks,

D

PS: HobbyKing have Turnigy 5x (without servo) for £16.86  which seems remarkably cheap....is the quality consistent with it being this price?

[Nobbi1977]

5x is cheap for a reason and needs a little hot glue to make it RC car friendly. My theory with kids is buy cheap and replace often. An expensive transmitter will smash the same as a cheap on if dropped. 

[briscaF1]

That'd be my philosophy given their ages.

The 5x works with "any" servo and "any" ESC, though?

What is the hot melt mod ?

[Darat76]

Radio set options is a hornets nest of opinions, pros and cons, going cheap with kids is a good plan, as all radios will break when dropped regardless of cost, however, cheap radios fail from general use faster then a pricey set. As an example, i have a cheap radio I use for my bashers, have had it for a yr now, and it's starting to get issues, I also have a very old top of the line (back in its heyday before 2.4g) radio for my race cars. I know I'll be replacing my cheap radio before long, but my pricey one will just shift from race duty to basher duty after I update the gear i use for me racers. 

Another good thing for the higher specd, and priced, radio sets is they will have a loop built in for a neck strap, having easy clip on straps for each person to use, means no adjusting straps to make it comfortable to use the radio and eliminates the threat of damage by hitting the ground after slipping out of small hands. 

Metal gear servos over time wear out faster than nylon gear servos through use, both metal and nylon gears can strip easy on a hard impact depending on material quality. 

Servos and esc's will work with any radio set, the only thing you may come across is a little guide tab on the plugs that go into the rx, not all rx's have the slot in the case, but a little knife work fixes that in short order. 

My advice, if you have the money to spare on quality radio gear, servos, esc's, and chargers do so, as spending more now can save you lots more in the future with a little preventive thinking (ie: neck straps), and give everyone more enjoyment at the same time. 

[racer1]

Guys, 

Below is a link to a build thread I did back in 2009 when I built my Madbull.  Only major issue I had with it was the sloppy steering which I addressed and it's great. 

 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-electric-off-road-trucks-buggies-truggies-more-147/8998124-tamiya-madbull-information-build-thread-build-has-begun.html

[briscaF1]

 

On 27/08/2016 at 11:22 PM, Darat76 said:

Radio set options is a hornets nest of opinions, pros and cons, going cheap with kids is a good plan, as all radios will break when dropped regardless of cost, however, cheap radios fail from general use faster then a pricey set. As an example, i have a cheap radio I use for my bashers, have had it for a yr now, and it's starting to get issues, I also have a very old top of the line (back in its heyday before 2.4g) radio for my race cars. I know I'll be replacing my cheap radio before long, but my pricey one will just shift from race duty to basher duty after I update the gear i use for me racers. 

Another good thing for the higher specd, and priced, radio sets is they will have a loop built in for a neck strap, having easy clip on straps for each person to use, means no adjusting straps to make it comfortable to use the radio and eliminates the threat of damage by hitting the ground after slipping out of small hands. 

Metal gear servos over time wear out faster than nylon gear servos through use, both metal and nylon gears can strip easy on a hard impact depending on material quality. 

Servos and esc's will work with any radio set, the only thing you may come across is a little guide tab on the plugs that go into the rx, not all rx's have the slot in the case, but a little knife work fixes that in short order. 

My advice, if you have the money to spare on quality radio gear, servos, esc's, and chargers do so, as spending more now can save you lots more in the future with a little preventive thinking (ie: neck straps), and give everyone more enjoyment at the same time. 

Thanks for the info. I'd typically go for something that will last but I just know I'll get really annoyed if it gets knocked about. That's sort of why I'm erring on buying a cheap set and seeing how it goes because I can imagine that, within 3-4 years, I'll end up going racing again (mini stocks/oval of some sort most probably) and I'll upgrade then to something better. The timetunnel kit comes with an etronix as the cheapest set so I'll end up with one of those, most likely. I did look at one of the Turnigy 5x from Hobbycraft but the carriage was astronomical....

On 28/08/2016 at 0:40 PM, racer1 said:

Guys, 

Below is a link to a build thread I did back in 2009 when I built my Madbull.  Only major issue I had with it was the sloppy steering which I addressed and it's great. 

 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-electric-off-road-trucks-buggies-truggies-more-147/8998124-tamiya-madbull-information-build-thread-build-has-begun.html

Great link and very interesting. Has almost put me off buying a Mad Bull though what with the bushes wearing out, the kit almost requiring only a little effort to put together and the steering modification being required. What does look good though is the robustness of the model, esp. the wishbones.

I'm almost tempted to go for a lunchbox or pumpkin in the hope that they'll be as stable/good to drive but a bit more challenging...!

 

[Nobbi1977]

The 5x has sticks that move in all directions and is not sprung in one. I pop the back off and limit the movement with a hot glue gun in two directions so you get the normal steering on one side and throttle on the other. Takes an extra five min but the unit is so small it is good for kids. Shipping adds to the cost and if you use dhl you will get hit with customs fees.

All the other cheap radios I have tried are quite big and not as kid friendly.

[TurnipJF]

11 hours ago, briscaF1 said:

 

Thanks for the info. I'd typically go for something that will last but I just know I'll get really annoyed if it gets knocked about. That's sort of why I'm erring on buying a cheap set and seeing how it goes because I can imagine that, within 3-4 years, I'll end up going racing again (mini stocks/oval of some sort most probably) and I'll upgrade then to something better. The timetunnel kit comes with an etronix as the cheapest set so I'll end up with one of those, most likely. I did look at one of the Turnigy 5x from Hobbycraft but the carriage was astronomical....

Great link and very interesting. Has almost put me off buying a Mad Bull though what with the bushes wearing out, the kit almost requiring only a little effort to put together and the steering modification being required. What does look good though is the robustness of the model, esp. the wishbones.

I'm almost tempted to go for a lunchbox or pumpkin in the hope that they'll be as stable/good to drive but a bit more challenging...!

 

Regarding radios, cheap doesn't have to be nasty. The Carson set I have is both cheap and nasty, whereas the Ansmann set bundled with my mate's Mad Monkey costs about the same but feels far better made. I don't know the Etronix you refer to, but hopefully it will be more like the Ansmann than the Carson.

 

As for the temptation to get a Lunchbox or Pumpkin, please don't, at least not for the reasons you state. The build is just as simple, they also come with plastic bushings that wear just as quickly, and the 5th shock mod they need is far more hassle than the Mad Bull steering mod which can be achieved with nothing more than a piece of heatshrink tubing.

 

Also remember that they build into top heavy wheelie machines rather than stable offroad bashers, so unless you are looking to spend a lot of time flipping them back onto their wheels, you'd be better off with the Bull. (Unless of course you consider the unstable wheelie handling to be part of the fun, in which case go right ahead.)

 

[briscaF1]

Thanks for the heads up on the complexity of the pumpkin build.

One of the reasons that attract me to the Mad Bull is that is looks squat and hard to turn over/it doesn't wheelie but then I'm not 5 and I was thinking of it from my son's perspective of what would be fun. 

I think I'll just bite the bullet and get the MB - I've done enough talking about it!

[Scouser]

I agree totally. Initially the Mad Bull wasn't on my radar at all. I started a thread to get opinions on my original short list and was recommended the MB due to my wishlist. 

Had it now for a while and am delighted with the choice. It is exactly what I was looking for as an all round basher that is fun and easy to maintain. I also learned that you can fit the wheels from the Aqroshot and have a world of tyre choices opened up for you. 

Enjoy your Mad Bull, keep us all updated with how you get on. 

[Nitomor]

My Mad Bull steering mod, using tamiya parts, so much better than the rubbish bent rod. Basically a cut down 3mm screw, a couple of WT01 steering rod ends and balls and a nut to space on of the balls slightly so it doesn't catch the chassis bulkhead.