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manny

FRP side plates for my Frog.

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Lately I've been working on parts for my re released cars.  Here are some gearbox side plates for my ORV, a replacement for the first one I bought in the mid 80's   I was happy to see that Tamiya have replaced the hex drives but as most of us know, the side plates are still weak.   These plates are machined out of FRP or g10 material with areas around the suspension pivot, battery door pin, motor and bearing holders left at full thickness for reinforcement.  

I don't plan on making this a production piece since I don't have the time to make them.  Anyway, a much more economical and elegant solution is already available from mheald  elsewhere in this forum :-)

IMG_3038.JPG

IMG_3046.JPG

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Manny I wouldn't put your work down you've done a fantastic job with those side plates and tackled the issue in a different way to others. Hope they worked as intended. 

It's great seeing members like you correcting known issues with our tamiya.

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It seems they work quite well so far and hold up to "adult" bashing if you know what I mean.  Although I'm still tuning my Cnc, the plates fit really well and the tranny is super smooth.   I'm happy😀

my next frog project was inspired by the rear a-arm layout pinto power is working on and the similar layout on the king Blackfoot. It's a lay down style gearbox that lowers the motor to where the trailing arms were.   I'm hoping to use pinto's arms and uprights when they are available.  I may have to make my own suspension mount and shock tower. I'll post pics  and send it off to the  3d printers when I get home next week.

i never imagined in the mid 80s that I would be tinkering with my first car 30 years later!

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On 9/22/2016 at 8:58 AM, manny said:

It seems they work quite well so far and hold up to "adult" bashing if you know what I mean.  Although I'm still tuning my Cnc, the plates fit really well and the tranny is super smooth.   I'm happy😀

my next frog project was inspired by the rear a-arm layout pinto power is working on and the similar layout on the king Blackfoot. It's a lay down style gearbox that lowers the motor to where the trailing arms were.   I'm hoping to use pinto's arms and uprights when they are available.  I may have to make my own suspension mount and shock tower. I'll post pics  and send it off to the  3d printers when I get home next week.

i never imagined in the mid 80s that I would be tinkering with my first car 30 years later!

Great, you mean I actually have to finish it? Lol. 

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On 9/26/2016 at 8:00 AM, Pintopower said:

Great, you mean I actually have to finish it? Lol. 

Yes!  I just saw your video on the conversion.  I really appreciate your attention to detail, especially when addressing the three different driveshafts available for the ORV series.  

BTW  How did you come up with the shock angle?  I'm not an engineer (I'm an product designer)  so my approach would be to make a prototype shock tower with a few mounting holes  and pick the best one(s) for the final part. 

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1 hour ago, manny said:

Yes!  I just saw your video on the conversion.  I really appreciate your attention to detail, especially when addressing the three different driveshafts available for the ORV series.  

BTW  How did you come up with the shock angle?  I'm not an engineer (I'm an product designer)  so my approach would be to make a prototype shock tower with a few mounting holes  and pick the best one(s) for the final part. 

Well, it was a factor of the anti-squat, Diameter of the shock body (stock tamiya oil filled units), a-arm thickness and structural integrity of the shock tower using SLS nylon, and lastly, the height of the shock tower itself. So yeah... A lot of S^&$. Lol. The reason I am not going to do multiple mounting angles is very simple, durability. I would love to do that but the fact is more holes means more places to fracture. This isn't the case with FRP or Graphite but with SLS It can be. Also, I have such a small window to make all the geometry work with anti squat (the whole assembly is rotated FWD 4 degrees to come up with a 50% anti-squat, according to my calculations) as well as making sure the shock bodies have clearance and most importantly, the 80mm shock length. The last one is critical. I could place additional mounting holes on the top part of the shock radially around the lower pivot but then the tower is getting wider and therefore it could weaken it. It is such a balancing act some times. A FRP bolt on would be cool but then we are talking about new beefy lower mounts and so on. Plus I need to make a version for the Monster beetle so that would interfere with that also. Hope all that made sense. Now i'm confused. What were we talking about again?

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Here's my laydown gearbox design.  The motor is where the trailing arms used to be .  I've also built in a mount for an FRP shock tower I'll be making. The side plates for the gearbox will also be FRP similar to the ones I made before. I'm thinking about moving the shock mount a bit  more forward;  it looks vulnerable all the way to the rear of the car.  Also thinking about some extra bracing for the gearbox as PintoPower pointed out in one of his videos.

FrogGearboxLaydown.jpg

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Worked on suspension mounts.  They will use suspension arms, uprights,driveshafts and geometry  borrowed from a TL01 along with a CRP adapter to fit standard Frog wheel hubs and wheels.  The shock tower and gearbox sides will be FRP while the rest is printed.   If my hack measurements are correct, I'll get similar wheelbase and rear track to a standard Frog along with acceptable suspension travel.

FrogLCG.jpg

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Be sure the blue part have the 2 degrees of anti squat angle.

If you design a part it worth to design it perfect, right? :D

 

Max

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I also believe that a longer rear arm is better imho.

 

Max

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You're right, I've already included 2deg anti-squat  But not sure why that's the magic amount :D  As far as arms go, I'll be able to experiment with ones from the TB01 and Tl01b but I want to keep the width in the same ballpark as the stock Frog. 

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Frp plates seem a real improvement (I hope in something similar for WO Tcase) but others, and I want to underline that it's only my opinion, seems to be a normalization for classic cars that are, like it or not, strongly characterized by trailing arms. :)

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I can understand where you are coming from: we're removing the quirks that for better or worse helped make The Frog an RC Icon.  As for myself I'm enjoying modifying the car in ways that I couldn't have dreamed about doing just a few decades ago.  I do have an all original, bone stock frog that I haven't touched in decades but the one I'm heavily modifying is a re release.  

I guess it's like the "Resto Mod" movement that you see with muscle cars.  I love seeing all original cars at the shows but a classic muscle car with all modern running gear is cool too!

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Well, I agree with your last thought. I'm a fan of deep modifies and I modify both classics and re-re :)
My underline is only the thought of a trailing arms's fanatic :D

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Right back at you!  I'm following your Ultima project with great interest!  The LCG  (low center of gravity) Frog is on the backburner for a short time  because I have another project on the CNC and I'm tiling the bathroom (gotta make the wife happy)

 

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I like the design...

But as a pragmatist and engineer, I have to express my concern about having such a low-slung motor with dirt/water/etc. and perhaps it being in the way of standard BF tires or other 2.2s???

Great work BTW!

Terry

 

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Yikes, I gotta admit I don't always think of everything!  :huh: I'm a product designer/ illustrator/  and I'll usually work with an engineer to keep my designs in check......  with my personal projects I'll usually just go with my intuition.

 

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It's really difficult to think of problems before they materialise.

Oh and thx :)

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A quick update:  got my print from Shapeways and eagerly awaiting my MIP ball diff.   I still have to make new FRP side plates, shock mounts  and an FRP battery plate that braces the chassis and gearbox (similar to what PintoPower did) for extra support.   Unfortunately, my CNC's computer crapped out on me so I need to take care of that before I have any more fun. 

FrogLCGmockkup.jpg

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