Jump to content
WRC4 me

Brand new, looking to off-road

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone. After years of rather enviously looking at the big Tamiya boxes in the hobby shop I've decided to take the plunge. What I'd like is a good basic 190mm rally setup to be able to traverse the woods and pathways around where I live. Just trying to figure out what's the best entry point from what I've learnt through reading this forum and others, which is:

XV-01 is probably the best chassis/package. It can easily be upgraded with longer shocks for more travel/clearance BUT doing this then limits the choice of bodies to boxy things like the Impreza hatchback, Evo X and Integrale to fit the longer suspension inside.

DF-03 is better than a converted touring car chassis like a TT for rallying but seems out of favour compared with XV-01. Not sure how it compares on ground clearance or what options there are to spring it best for where I want to take it

M-06 just looks like fun, and the build of the Alpine A110 that I saw using CVA Mini shocks to increase clearance and travel, plus fitting rally block tyres, looks brilliant. Just not sure how deep in the forest she'll get!

At the moment I've got three options that I've focused on and would like to see what you guys think.

Option 1) Blow the cash and get an XV-01 with longer shocks plus an aftermarket body like a Skoda Fabia S2000. Even with the basic 'retailer's bundle' electronics that's close to £400, which is an interesting prospect... but if you're gonna be a bear, you'd better be a grizzly

Option 2) Go for a DF-03 with a Lancer Evo V body, my all-time favourite rally car, and find out what the best options on shocks are

Option 3) Build a little Alpine or Beetle with CVA Mini shocks and rally block tyres, accepting that it will probably get stuck more often but, awww, it looks cute

Given all that, may I ask you experts whether you think I've understood things correctly and which of my three options you like? Also, given that I'm not competing or anything, can I get away with the sort of servos and electronics that are on offer from most retailers' set menus or is it toy-grade stuff?

Many, many thanks in advance for your thoughts. I shall try to be a bit less of an irritating newbie ASAP!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

All 3 are good choice because they are Tamiya’s after all!

So it looks like you’ve got your heart set on the Rally type for sure…. Understandable they can look awesome…. And I too was in the same boat and ended up getting a TT-02 and a DF-03ra (You mean DF-03ra and not the 4wd Buggy DF-03 right?)

The TT-02 has proved ok, it has switchable hubs to increase ground clearance up to about 15mm, and then some Rally Block tyres can gain an extra mm or two….. but this still gets caught up on terrain I’d like to run it over… nothing worse than seeing an awesome rally car beached on a small tuft of grass…. Embarrassing.

I’ve yet to fix my DF-03ra (bought it broken) but it does look a lot more capable than the TT-02… I was a little worried about the underside battery loading and routing the battery wires through but it’s not impossible. As for running it I have no idea sorry, not much use I know sorry.

If I had the money to splash I would’ve picked an XV-01 based on every review I’ve seen praising them, but I like to give the underdog a shot hence the DF-03ra choice.

As for the M-06…. Well I just bought a second hand Pumpkin Lowrider on its way to me for the same reason as you.. they just look fun…. I wouldn’t bother trying to make it a rally car though as it’s a mini and unless it’s ultra smooth terrain I’d get the hump with it real quick ;p

As for the stock electronics you can get bundled into the kit, these are fine for a beginner, servo’s won’t make too much difference once your bouncing through the woods and these little lightweight cars don’t need big turning power.

You’ll probably get a stock silver can brushed motor in either of those 3 kits you mentioned, these are good too, paired up with a suitable esc and Nimh battery they get things moving pretty well.. but the need for speed and wheel spinning power will grip you eventually if not already and then you will definitely look to put a faster motor in or go full brushless.

To start with though, a simple Carson 2.4Ghz radio system with a servo can be had for about £35-£40, a TBLE-02s esc is another £20 (allows use of nimh and lipo batteries – no lvc alarm though for lipo so use an external alarm, and can later take sensored brushless motors too)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a budget go with a TT-02 Rally (subaru or lancia) and with some free tweeks you get a better ground clearance. With rally, they get a lot of abuse and it always pains me to run my XV-01 over the TT-02.

XV-01 is better but has no more ground clearance than a modded TT-02.  

As for the cost of getting it ready to run. 2.4g radio sets are £30 for good ones, I like the tactic ttx300 from modelsport . Core-rc uac50 (my pick in budget as you get all the leads you ever need) charger from modelsport £45. Hobby king for a couple of 3s lipos £30 (can use softcase in the TT or XV. 

Hobbywing 1060 ESC for c£18 (modelsport) will run 3s lipo all day long. With a TT-02 and a 3s lipo on the silvercan 540 you get a decent performer all in for just over £230. 

Money no object the XV-01 any day but you can easily get the buyers and runners remorse when you see the £££ rolling and flying through the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for the swift replies both of you. Coming from a slot car racing background, I know how impenetrable hobbies can appear at the outset, and how easy it is to go down a dark alley early on and lose interest!

So, straight away, I shall delete the M-06 and the QV from my thinking - one on capability and one on cost. My wallet thanks you!

Very interesting that the TT-02 is a real option. From reading the forums, it would seem that most opinions are that these are better for paved roads but looking at the Czech rally videos, quite a few competitors use the TT platform competitively. I'm assuming that neither the DF-03ra or the TT-02 come with oil shocks, is there a recommended upgrade that will give a bit more travel/height for these chassis?

This is the car that I really want, shown running on a DF-03ra. Slightly worried about the 'bounciness' but perhaps he's used the kit suspension rather than oil?

For the electrics, all the retailers I'm looking at are well-known and well-established. They all seem to offer the sort of kit that you mention - for example Goldstarstockists parcels up the kit with 'Etronix Wheel Radio, 2000+, 2.5hr charger and Sport 20 ESC'. The thing is, like Ron Burgundy, I'm just saying what's in front of me, I have no idea what it means! Presumably that will allow me to drive it once the batteries are in. 

Beyond that, I see why shielded ball bearings are a must, and a suspension upgrade. Is that about right?

I'm going to have a look at some TT-02s online. Looks like the available kit for my interests would be the Impreza WRC 99 - would prefer the Lancer, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of cheap radio's I'm going to try this £16.89 2.4Ghz radio from China, I can wait a couple weeks for it to arrive

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTAR-AX5S-2-4G-3CH-AFHS-Radio-Transmitter-with-Receiver-for-RC-Car-Boat-Y1H0-/232085306474?hash=item36095cbc6a:g:2CIAAOSwZtJW-3F8

The Etronix wheel radio will be fine. The Sport 20 esc will allow you to use brushed motors down to 20 turns (stock silver can motor is 27t) but cannot run brushless motors if you later decide to upgrade.

I presume that charger is for Nimh batteries only, and 2.5hrs ain't too bad, what size battery was you considering?

As for bearings, maybe consider getting some rubber sealed ones on the axles (you'll need 8 here whichever kit you choose) , and maybe use metal shielded in the gearbox, but you could also use rubber sealed ones there too to save buying different types of bearings.

Oil dampers are pretty much a must for the TT-02, especially as you intend to go off-road.... I got some cheap alloy ones from Ebay, PITA to fit as they didn't come with ball studs and the hole at the top of the shocks were an odd size (typical), maybe best to stick with some official Tamiya oil shocks, they will fit straight on and give you less grief. .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant, thanks Jason. I shall be fine with the stock motor I think... for quite a long time to come!

Rubber sealed bearings in the axles and metal in the gearbox. Great tip!

I've found some fairly good videos this morning. Here's what would appear to be a box-stock Subaru on the TT-02 having a go in the dirt. It seems to me that he's not so much going over the lumps and bumps as crashing into them and getting thrown over the top!

Meanwhile I found a very good instructional on fitting the oil shocks to a TT-02 but it's all in Spanish. He's showing you the number of holes and explaining which ones work for a rally car but I can't make it out. He clearly knows his stuff, though, as this is his TT-02 on a bumpy surface... much different to the first one and really taking the bumps in its stride:

 

And finally, here's an interesting head-to-head between a very well set up TT-02 Skoda and an XV-01 Impreza. You can see how good the XV chassis is and how much more control he's got, but at my level that's probably the least of my problems!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a look at Fusion Hobbies, they have the '99 Impreza or the Lancia Delta on there.  Fusion give a good service, plus you can get a 5% discount as a member of TC (or 10% if you subscribe to TC) if you email them before placing the order (have a look here http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?/forum/18-fusionhobbiescom/)

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Main thing I would say is if you are just getting into the hobby, do buy all your kit from the main UK dealers as the direct from China etc even though cheap can hit you with infuriating delays, technical glitches, dead on arrivals, no shows, custom charges etc. Which once up and running isn't a problem but get there first:

For UK dealers

1) Modelsport http://www.modelsport.co.uk - Great service and prices (never let me down on a next day delivery yet or stock)

2) Fusion Hobbies http://www.fusionhobbies.com - Awesome service, with a 5%-10% discount 

3) Time Tunnel Models http://www.goldstarstockists.net/live/catalog/model-store-radio-control-tamiya-rc-c-128_24_25.html - Brilliant service, good prices, next day delivery / priority delivery has never managed to be next day for me yet though. 

4) HobbyKing http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/index.asp?whl=GBR - Using the UK warehouse (make sure you purposely select this) you should get next day delivery (I always do). Great for lipo batteries and elec products. Using the EU warehouse and you typically get it in 2-3 days. They now stock a reasonable range of Tamiya Kits as well. I have recently ordered one of their in car sound and light units which I will do a review of soon as its great. 

Check out this thread for the TT-02 Rally Build with mods on the suspension arms to increase travel and also fitting the CVA Dampers. The DF03-RA is a great car though so if you can afford it 100% go for that especially if you want the Evo body. 

The  Goldstarstockists bundle 'Etronix Wheel Radio, 2000+, 2.5hr charger and Sport 20 ESC is ok.

If you go with it select the upgraded charger option to the delta peak fast charger as it makes such a difference. The Carson controller choice is horrible though. The Etronix is ok but I prefer the Tactic (below). The mtroniks Sport 20 ESC is average. I find them a real let down in terms of overall performance especially compared to the competetion. The Tamiya ESCs are better imo. 

The battery is also low capacity by stick pack standards these days and a 3300 mha+ is  the norm. Goldstarstockists are not that competitive on batteries but they cater for the old school modeler in that regard

My recommendation below 

Charger - As a minimum one of these http://www.modelsport.co.uk/core-rc-uac50-charger-12v-110-240v-6a/rc-car-products/365880 as it charges everything from Tamiya nimh style 7.2v Stick Packs to lipos. It also has all the leads and connectors you could need if you ever venture into Lipo bar ironically the tamiya connector (£2.99).

Radio Unit - One of these http://www.modelsport.co.uk/tactic-rc-ttx300-3-channel-slt-radio/rc-car-products/388540 which comes with a micro receiver so you don't need the in car aerial. I really like this especially for value for money, comfort and compactness. 

ESC - If not the Tamiya TBLE-02 one of the Hobbywing Quickrun http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hobbywing-quicrun-1060-brushed-esc/rc-car-products/382831 will run down to 12T brushed and 3s lipo with low voltage cut off built in. Can also run normal 7.2v nimh stick packs quite happily. I use this to run 2s/3s lipo in my Tamiya kits with either the silver can or Superstock BZ motors.  

Battery - Vapex make good nimh batteries and cheaply and their ebay store usually scores next day delivery http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-2V-3700mAh-NiMH-rechargeable-battery-pack-/371150571789?hash=item566a4c490d

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to say that Tactic Radio looks sweet!

25 minutes ago, Prescient said:

Radio Unit - One of these http://www.modelsport.co.uk/tactic-rc-ttx300-3-channel-slt-radio/rc-car-products/388540 which comes with a micro receiver so you don't need the in car aerial. I really like this especially for value for money, comfort and compactness. 

 

 

I'm gonna try one soon for sure, does it auto calibrate (throttle and reverse)  and easy to bind with one touch button when first ever switched on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

Got to say that Tactic Radio looks sweet!

I'm gonna try one soon for sure, does it auto calibrate (throttle and reverse)  and easy to bind with one touch button when first ever switched on?

All mine have come pre-bound and they do auto calibrate. Easy to bind and set up if needed though. They are so cheap for a 3 channel I just buy a whole new one rather than a receiver when I need a new one. They do only bind to one receiver with no memory for multiple receivers which is the only downside. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There you have it WRC4me, this Tactic should be a top contender for your radio choice. Although I have had great success with my Carson 2.4Ghz twin stick radio too lol. You need to choose between twin stick or steer wheel radio, that's a personal preference (Carson make a steer wheel too but I've yet to try that one, not sure if Tactic make a twin stick?) ...... after years of steer wheel I am slowly getting used to twin sticks again but sometimes I forget myself and make uncontrolled manoeuvres ;p

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WRC4 me said:

I've found some fairly good videos this morning. Here's what would appear to be a box-stock Subaru on the TT-02 having a go in the dirt. It seems to me that he's not so much going over the lumps and bumps as crashing into them and getting thrown over the top!

I'd have to say this is pretty much expected for running a car with 1.9" wheels over that sort of terrain.  The chassis actually looks remarkably composed bearing in mind the wheels are rarely in contact with the ground.

Even with some custom mods to the hubs, there's only so much you can do to increase ground clearance - eventually either the chassis or the hub will hit something and throw the car into the air.  Also when your wheels are only 1.9" dia, even a bit of pea gravel is the equivalent of hitting a large rock - which could destroy a wheel on a real WRC car.

With that in mind, consider your terrain - if you have roots, loose sticks, grass or lot of fallen leaves to traverse, you might struggle with a rally car.  In my experience, rally cars work best on loose dust and fine gravel without too many incline changes.

It's also in the nature of a 1:10 car to look bouncy, even when set up well - they're not only 10 times smaller but significantly lighter, so there's far less mass damping, meaning they change direction over bumps a lot quicker than full-size cars do.  However, if you shoot a video of your RC at 10x usual speed then slow it down, they look pretty awesome :D:D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tips on retailers everyone. Good to know that there are such good traders supporting the hobby. 

Good points on the perceptions of the film, MadAx. Fortunately I'm mainly going to be ploughing along sandy paths and the occasional well-worn footpath so the only really bouncy things like tree roots should be relatively few and far between!

Prescient - I really like the look of that Tactic radio set. I don't have a problem with aerials poking out of the roof - rally cars should always have a few! - but with two small children who like to yank at things like that, and with transporting the car in a rucksack while riding a bicycle, it means that the internal receiver makes sense.

Thanks to all your help I'm now down to a final two choices: TT-02 with the Impreza '99 body or DF-03ra with the Lancer Evo V body.

It would seem to me that the DF-03ra comes with shielded ball bearings included and with the CVA oil shocks instead of friction dampers as standard. Is that right?

If that is the case, it would seem that the DF-03ra only needs me to buy paint on top of the package price to do what I want it to do, while the TT-02 needs suspension and bearings to get to the equivalent spec. That is a difference of just over £37 between the two - although it stretches to £59 with the TC members' discount available on the T-02 from Fusion Hobbies. That said, it sounds from the Integrale build thread as though I'll also need to buy some softer springs if I go the TT-02 route using oil shocks. So that's got to be a fiver!

Assuming that the oil shocks and bearings are included in the DF-03ra kit then my heart says the Lancer because I love the body but my wallet says the Impreza, with the added satisfaction of making the mods that will improve its rally stance.

I shall commence deliberations... and consult both wife (who will be walking the dog alongside me when I'm out trundling my new toy over hill and dale) and piggy-bank.

Red or blue: that is the question! All thoughts welcome...

 1521306.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=350&h

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Mad Ax said:

I'd have to say this is pretty much expected for running a car with 1.9" wheels over that sort of terrain.  The chassis actually looks remarkably composed bearing in mind the wheels are rarely in contact with the ground.

This every time. Even the XV-01 struggles on much more than light pack gravel. Rally cars are not a huge step up from the road cars in terms of off-road ability compared to a buggy or truck. They are still epic though and great fun on the right surface. 

The best functional rally car Tamiya made was based on the TL01 chassis http://www.tamiyausa.com/items/radio-control-kits-30/4wd-shaft-drive-on-road-(tl)-36125/rc-impreza-wrc-2004-49352.

It had everything you could ever want in a functional rally car. Large spikey tyres, loads of ground clearance, 4WD etc. It failed at being a scale variant though due to the wheels and chassis. 

XV-01 is front engined and handles like a proper rally car. the DF-03 variant handles like a buggy in a rally car guise. 

The TT-02 is fine as stock, if you are going for that one, don't mod it much straight off the bat as works out more expensive. Its meant to be the budget option. If you are only running a tamiya motor (the subaru has the torque tuned) then bearings are really an option and not a necessity. Pound for Pound the XV-01 is the best value, it has enclosed belt drive, a composite plastic chassis (not sure on the DF-03), bearings, CVAs etc and as a rally replica out performs the DF-03RA (in my opinion). You do get the Evo body on the DF-03RA though which is a massive plus.

It sounds like the DF-03RA is the one for you overall and you won't go wrong with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I have both the XV-01 and the DF-03RA. Yes, the DF-03 has a little more ground clearance, but the XV-01 is a better car in every way. My vote is to get the XV-01. I barely drive my DF03 anymore, but I drive the XV-01 a ton.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting trickier, Thiebault! Two votes to go for broke with an XV...

What is the availability like for other older bodies? I see that the Impreza 99 is readily available with the kit but the Lancer less so. The Integrale is also plentiful  as a body set or with a kit but there's no sign of a Celica GT-Four body anywhere.

Out of all the Tamiya bodies, I think my favourites are the Evo V, Celica 1990, Xsara WRC and Peugeot 206 WRC. Are these all now consigned to history?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why decide, buy both.....

Will cost you £50-£60+ to get the evolution 5 body set and stickers alone now in wrc format if you can find one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WRC4 me said:

Getting trickier, Thiebault! Two votes to go for broke with an XV...

What is the availability like for other older bodies? I see that the Impreza 99 is readily available with the kit but the Lancer less so. The Integrale is also plentiful  as a body set or with a kit but there's no sign of a Celica GT-Four body anywhere.

Out of all the Tamiya bodies, I think my favourites are the Evo V, Celica 1990, Xsara WRC and Peugeot 206 WRC. Are these all now consigned to history?

You can find the older bodies on Ebay from time to time or Tamico. I have a 1:1 Evo 8, so I am partial to Evo bodies. I have a 5 and 6 bodies that are still new in box waiting on a rainy day to be done up. They will be shelfers. I like to run my Suby 2008 and Delta Integrale bodies when I run them. The Evo X body is gorgeous too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DF03ra, this is how mine currently sits awaiting a fix to the rear gearbox casing I just haven't prioritised it yet.

 

zjYGd9L.jpg

FRFkOxz.jpg

X8TWHY7.jpg

lH663iI.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's very pretty Jason - and impressively clean!

Prescient - both together would be lovely. Sadly, I didn't spend that much on the car I drive to work in!

I'm coming round to the XV idea. Box stock as I've now seen pics of one or two built with long travel suspension and they're a bit Lunchbox-looking!

Might have found a nice body set for it, too. Not an Evo V but nice enough. So the XV is back on the shortlist!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's so fun when serious people post "help me spend money on R/C" threads!  If you're a first time R/Cer I would suggest going with a TT-02 over the XV-01.  It's likely that this will not be your last R/C.  Cut your teeth on a less complex, less expensive chassis first.  The TT is by no means a bad choice.  There's tons of support and hop-ups available.  As you grow with it, you will learn what is and is not important for you as an R/C driver and builder.  The XV maybe overkill in any number of ways for you or it might be your most perfect R/C or you might find that the TT is a great rally car but next you want a buggy, or a truck or an on-road car.

The other kit that you might consider but hasn't been mentioned yet is the MF-01X.  I realize that both the Jimny and Mercedes come with SUV bodies but that doesn't mean you need to keep those bodies.  It's something to consider but my vote is that you go with a TT-02 rally variant.

Also to comment on the Tactic TTX300 transmitter.  I used that exact transmitter for my wife's MF-01X.  It's a wonderful piece of inexpensive kit.  The receiver is antennaless which is great if you are trying to maintain scale looks.  I also have used Tactic servos in both her MF-01X and my sons TT-02.  Tactic has quickly become my budget equipment choice.  That's how impressed I am with their gear for the money.

Good luck with your decision.  I hope you grace us with a build thread when your kit and parts finally arrive!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Effigy3 said:

It's so fun when serious people post "help me spend money on R/C" threads!  If you're a first time R/Cer I would suggest going with a TT-02 over the XV-01.  It's likely that this will not be your last R/C.  Cut your teeth on a less complex, less expensive chassis first.  The TT is by no means a bad choice.  There's tons of support and hop-ups available.  As you grow with it, you will learn what is and is not important for you as an R/C driver and builder.  The XV maybe overkill in any number of ways for you or it might be your most perfect R/C or you might find that the TT is a great rally car but next you want a buggy, or a truck or an on-road car.

The other kit that you might consider but hasn't been mentioned yet is the MF-01X.  I realize that both the Jimny and Mercedes come with SUV bodies but that doesn't mean you need to keep those bodies.  It's something to consider but my vote is that you go with a TT-02 rally variant.

I would echo this. Time really helps you understand what you want / will get from this hobby. Plenty of perusal on here will give you lots of ideas from the shared experience.

My tuppence (and it is probably only worth that) is to get a vehicle best suited to where you will use it most. 

As for MF-01X in rally car guise, the most recent post on here shows what can be achieved... 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are all completely right, of course. I suppose that I have been swayed by the fact that, from my browsing across all the forums, first impressions were either people are either souping up TT-02 chassis to make them better off-road or raving about the XV-01. That's sort of what brought me here!

Personally, I will admit to being swayed by the Lancer body on the DF-03. Its buggy DNA isn't that much of a drawback for me and might well help it along the wooded trails that I am intending to run on.

Baby steps first - I've just bought a usable old TL-01 car minus radio and battery that looks like it should hold together long enough to get a feel for where to go next. I'll follow Prescient's advice on the budget gear needed to get it going and then see what mods might be needed to get around in the woods.

It certainly looks like the MF-01x has a lot of fans, and is a pretty able option on the trails. I like that a lot. Thanks for opening up another possibility there!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did this! Mine has 1.9 wheels and a Kamtec Bowler shell (not quite finished).

It has been a great learning experience and opened the door to the world of Tamiya and TC.

Enjoy! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...