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Jason1145

Tamiya Club Official Top 10 Fastest RC'ers List

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8 minutes ago, DK308 said:

What's the tyre diameter on the Rat wheels?

110mm.

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2 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

I've had lower C rated lipos dip into the low volt cut off (4.5t with the 70c) with a good charge in them, high power demands really drop the voltage, I ran a low volt alarm on the dt03 when on the beach (wouldn't have time to storage charge, so was trying to aim for 3.8v) 3v cut off turned out to be 3.8v resting.

My recent WT01 ran 30mph, where the optima mid, with the exact motor/esc/Lipo ran 54 , but not sure if that's gearing, weight or power losses? 

True that the voltage can really dip on the low C packs, I just can't see it go so low as to affect the car so much as in this situatiion.

Not sure what was going on with your WT01 and Optima. But they are very different rigs, with very different wheels and gear ratios. Not sure we can gather much else from that other than they run very differently.

The reason why I mentioned the Fury, is because it's a 2wd SCT like the Rat and they both have a 60A ESC or more. And as mentioned, the Zippy Flightmax 25C I saw it run with, was not fully charged when my buddy made a run for the fun of it, as we had the GPS in my pocket. I just looked up the Reedy 540SL 3300kv motor, which I think is the stock Rat motor, and while I might be wrong, looking at the specs, it definitely does not strike me as a powerhouse built for speed running.

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Just did a bit of number crunching on this one, and it's interesting.

It would seem that the speed of 64 kph is right in the sweetspot. If we assume 12 volts and a tyre growth to 115mm in diameter, it runs 64kph @ 89% efficiency. That's pretty good.

By comparison, it should run 71 if the efficiency stayed the same. So yes, either there's a significant voltage drop up top which I can't  seem to make sense of with these electronics, as it would have to drop from 12 to about 11 volt for a fresh pack - or efficiency simply drops to 83% because the motor is at it's peak.

It's hard to say without a log :)

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Why you should've said, I've got a few logs out in my garden and a couple of twigs too, maybe a branch if I'm lucky,  I'll strap them on for the next run and see what happens :)

I'll take 89% efficiency all day long as like I said the motor seemed happy on that 89/21 3s set up, it was too fast for general use and during the speed runs if I went from half throttle to immediate full throttle it would spin out so the power was a handful.

Ive just basketed a 75t spur and 25t pinion for this car and then added some other little bits for another car and now I'm looking at a £70 basket... this is why I'm cash poor!

(I know it would be easier to just swap out this 3300kv motor with one of my spare 4000, 4370 or even the 6900kv motor.... but that's just cheating!) 

Carry on folks.

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8 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Why you should've said, I've got a few logs out in my garden and a couple of twigs too, maybe a branch if I'm lucky,  I'll strap them on for the next run and see what happens :)

I'll take 89% efficiency all day long as like I said the motor seemed happy on that 89/21 3s set up, it was too fast for general use and during the speed runs if I went from half throttle to immediate full throttle it would spin out so the power was a handful.

Ive just basketed a 75t spur and 25t pinion for this car and then added some other little bits for another car and now I'm looking at a £70 basket... this is why I'm cash poor!

(I know it would be easier to just swap out this 3300kv motor with one of my spare 4000, 4370 or even the 6900kv motor.... but that's just cheating!) 

Carry on folks.

Ya, my mistake. Sorry 'bout that:)

According to a guy I know who's into Land Speed racing, weight is really important when going fast. Might want to add a few bricks and a bunch of lead balloons while you're at it :D  And cheating? B) I never cheat or inspire cheating - unless I get caught :P

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what it can do with the tall gearing. It might just be as simple as the motor likes to run in that 80-83% range and can draw enough amps at that point to move it along.

Keep us posted on this one :)

 

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Will do for sure... it's warming up soon so I expect some more speed runs from you guys too... I'm going to try and get the fastest ClodBuster/Bullhead one day!

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Sounds good :)

Hm, doing a Bullbuster speed challenge, eh? A fun idea i have thought of myself. What's your thoughts? Stock motors, brushed, brushless or ? I think it would be fun to see what it can do on stock tyres and stock chassis etc. I would however, belt the tyres i think.

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8 hours ago, DK308 said:

Sounds good :)

Hm, doing a Bullbuster speed challenge, eh? A fun idea i have thought of myself. What's your thoughts? Stock motors, brushed, brushless or ? I think it would be fun to see what it can do on stock tyres and stock chassis etc. I would however, belt the tyres i think.

Hmmm the current Bullhead record is holding up the whole of the 4WD category.... as in, its last there lol.

The trouble is my clodhead thingy is now rear wheel drive so I'll be going in a different category to @Wooders28, mine will be on silver cans and 3s lipo, can't wait ;) 

(I think his effort below was on silver cans and 3s lipo too?)

 

39 - Wooders - Bullhead - 15.5 MPH / 25 KPH (Video run on page 35)

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44 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

Hmmm the current Bullhead record is holding up the whole of the 4WD category.... as in, its last there lol.

The trouble is my clodhead thingy is now rear wheel drive so I'll be going in a different category to @Wooders28, mine will be on silver cans and 3s lipo, can't wait ;)  

(I think his effort below was on silver cans and 3s lipo too?)

 

39 - Wooders - Bullhead - 15.5 MPH / 25 KPH (Video run on page 35)

Ah yes, I've seen that 25 kph run before..

How about this idea. Hobbywing 860 esc and a 2800 4S lihv 65/130C pack? And also fit the motors with alloy heat sinks and Whats that all about then? 34 mm windy fans to pull some air through them.

I'm sure they will get scorching hot, but I'm also quite sure those silver cans will survive it they were broken in properly, lubed and cleaned to keep resistance down, I feel pretty confident it could be done like that.

Looks like I have to prioritise a monster truck purchase in the future.

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2 minutes ago, DK308 said:

Ah yes, I've seen that 25 kph run before..

How about this idea. Hobbywing 860 esc and a 2800 4S lihv 65/130C pack? And also fit the motors with alloy heat sinks and Whats that all about then? 34 mm windy fans to pull some air through them.

I'm sure they will get scorching hot, but I'm also quite sure those silver cans will survive it they were broken in properly, lubed and cleaned to keep resistance down, I feel pretty confident it could be done like that.

Looks like I have to prioritise a monster truck purchase in the future.

Your plainly mental but I like it!

Strike my previous statement as I made a mistake, my Clod is not 2WD but 2WS lol.. so I now have to beat 25KPH

After I do the 3s run on my Clod thingy I will probably look at faster motors - just for fits n giggles ;)

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34 minutes ago, Jason1145 said:

Your plainly mental but I like it!

Strike my previous statement as I made a mistake, my Clod is not 2WD but 2WS lol.. so I now have to beat 25KPH

After I do the 3s run on my Clod thingy I will probably look at faster motors - just for fits n giggles ;)

Thank you very much for that compliment :)  And may I say I find you equally delightfully mental.

I tried running my Absima Thrust B-Spec 17t brushed motor on 3S in my DT03 when I had it in that. While it got hot, it actually stayed alive. Still lives and runs hard in my Lunchbox. :) What I'm getting at is that the Absima motor in a 19t version would be an interesting 3S capable motivator for a Clodhead thingy.

A thing I was thinking about for a fast Bullbusterclodhead thingy was to really tighten up the front diff. Simply stuff a bunch of 1000000 cst diff fluid in there, so that it would have equal traction in the front.

At any rate it would be fun if one could get past 30 kph on 3S silver cans with stock wheels. Not sure if it's possible to change gear ratio on a bullyclod.

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Yep there is an adjustable motor mount for the Clod... you'd need two of these for 4WD though

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/133005346723?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-134428-41853-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fi%252F133005346723%253Fchn%253Dps%26itemid%3D133005346723%26targetid%3D539571975561%26device%3Dm%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9045992%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1669190372%26adgroupid%3D67214013000%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-539571975561%26abcId%3D578896%26merchantid%3D114931277%26gclid%3DCjwKCAjwtYXmBRAOEiwAYsyl3OgTlx4tdS7MEns5GdAscZcGJJBGTAB0LZDGbhVyAqXmU-oZ_gGgWBoC1fQQAvD_BwE%26srcrot%3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D1947594145942%26rvr_ts%3D57d5fd8c16a0add8df012b13ffa17167

God why is that link so long!

Easiest way is to get motors that have neutral timing for the Clod otherwise you need to adjust something to make one run backwards... I've never messed with brushed motors before so I'm not sure how to do it.

Not sure if you can just lump in two brushless motors if they would work in a Clod or one needs reversing too ( swapping motor wires around????)

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3 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Yep there is an adjustable motor mount for the Clod... you'd need two of these for 4WD though

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/133005346723?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-134428-41853-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fi%252F133005346723%253Fchn%253Dps%26itemid%3D133005346723%26targetid%3D539571975561%26device%3Dm%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9045992%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1669190372%26adgroupid%3D67214013000%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-539571975561%26abcId%3D578896%26merchantid%3D114931277%26gclid%3DCjwKCAjwtYXmBRAOEiwAYsyl3OgTlx4tdS7MEns5GdAscZcGJJBGTAB0LZDGbhVyAqXmU-oZ_gGgWBoC1fQQAvD_BwE%26srcrot%3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D1947594145942%26rvr_ts%3D57d5fd8c16a0add8df012b13ffa17167

God why is that link so long!

Easiest way is to get motors that have neutral timing for the Clod otherwise you need to adjust something to make one run backwards... I've never messed with brushed motors before so I'm not sure how to do it.

Not sure if you can just lump in two brushless motors if they would work in a Clod or one needs reversing too ( swapping motor wires around????)

Heh, that IS a long link indeed.

Don't let timing scare you. Unless you do something really strange and don't think a bit ahead, it's very easy for this application.

Most of the rebuildable motors that are open on the back, have adjustable timing. Some are set @ 0 from the factory, as the manufacture does not know which way it needs to turn. Adjusting the timing is not only a matter of running two motors, it's often needed depending on your model. Depending on the gearbox layout, some cars require the motor to spin in one direction, and others the other. I believe the DT-03 has reversed rotation as an example.

Anyway, as I said, it's not hard at all. These motors usually have timing marks, +/- 10-12 degrees or so. And even if they don't and you want to pair up a set of motors, it's still very easy - you play it by ear. While timing is important for best performance, and to an extent, the life of the motor, hitting the timing 110% dead on balls accurate, is not a must. Trust me, no two silvercans are exactly alike, despite being @ 0. Only way to find true 0, is to adjust while the motor is running and then measure for lowest amps.

But here's how it's done.

On the back of the motor you will find two screws. Those two needs to be loosened so that the endbell can be turned. Do not remove them completely, just enough so that it will turn. Do not loosen these before we know which motor to adjust.

Now connect both motors to the same ESC via a splitter cable, making sure one is in reverse. Use the throttle trim to make the motors run at say 1/8-1/4 throttle. Now you can hear which motor is the slow one, and this is the one we need to adjust.

Shut off the motors and mark the one that is the reverse, so you always know which is which.

While both motors are running, loosen the endbell on this motor just enough as mentioned previously. Now slowly turn the endbell in the same direction as the motor is spinning. You will hear it pick up speed, and as the speed of the two motors get closer, you will hear the sound get more and more in harmonic phase as the tone of the motors gets equal. Once you find that the combined tone of the two motors are steady, you tighten the screws. Voilá, your motors are now timed :)

Brushelss is simple in this regard. Only thing is that you need two ESC's. As long as the motor timing is set @ 0, which is most often is, and the setup is sensorless, you simply connect one motor ABC to ABC, and the other ABC to CBA. The slightly more advanced ESC's can reverse the rotation, so you don't need to alter the connection sequence at all.

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12 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

I think his effort below was on silver cans and 3s lipo too

Yeah, 3s with silver cans 👍

11 hours ago, DK308 said:

How about this idea. Hobbywing 860 esc and a 2800 4S lihv 65/130C pack?

@stew_mac tried 4s with a, bedded in reverse run in water bath, 540 silver can, and it didn't last one run, I don't think it even got upto speed, but the clodhead (?) Is low geared, so 🤷‍♂️

4 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Easiest way is to get motors that have neutral timing for the Clod otherwise you need to adjust something to make one run backwards...

I bought a couple of HPI firebolt 15t motors to run, no mention anywhere of being directional,  and £8 each 😁

Need to find time to get them nailed in and see how they fair on 3s, the novafox runs ok with the firebolt on 3s 😏

4 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Easiest way is to get motors that have neutral timing for the Clod otherwise you need to adjust something to make one run backwards... I've never messed with brushed motors before so I'm not sure how to do it.

You need to alter the end bell to allow timing adjustment, either remove the tabs,and glue the end bell in its new timing position, or new slots etc. (I think you can do it with altering brushes?), for a 10° advanced motor, you'd need to retard it 20° for it to be 10° running in reverse.

Most of the brushed modified motors have adjustable timing anyway, loosen a screw, turn end bell, tighten 👍

4 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Not sure if you can just lump in two brushless motors if they would work in a Clod or one needs reversing too ( swapping motor wires around????)

Yeah, but you'd need 2 esc's as the feedback for motor position wouldn't work too well.

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I ran the silver can on 3s, 4s and 6s

3s I got 50mph

4s was 51mph

6s was 48mph. 

I lowered the gearing for 6s 

the best run was in 3s. The motor made a few passes and was still ok. 

4s it burnt out 

6s the brush welded to the communicator.

 

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55 minutes ago, stew_mac said:

6s the brush welded to the communicator

Thought that was the 4s, that burnt out and welded, hadn't realised that was 6s 😳

The clod/heads seem to be kinder to silver cans, not sure if it's the gearing,  but thinking the life span would still be short on 4s, but faster is faster 😏

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In recon there’s heaps left with the silver can. I was using a 1060 esc with the 3s run. I recon with a castle MM2 in 3s and in a RM01 or F103GT it would be quicker. Less drag on the drive line, lighter.

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Sweet... when I fall down upgrading the motors rabbit hole I refer back to you guys for help, great explanation which will make more sense when I'm actually sat in front of a motor rather than at my desk at work during lunchtime,  ideally I'll just buy motors ready at zero timing so they will work from the get go like the silver cans ;p

Great, now Wooders28 is going to set the Bullhead speed record even higher before I can challenge it lol ;p

Good luck with it.

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4 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Sweet... when I fall down upgrading the motors rabbit hole I refer back to you guys for help, great explanation which will make more sense when I'm actually sat in front of a motor rather than at my desk at work during lunchtime,  ideally I'll just buy motors ready at zero timing so they will work from the get go like the silver cans ;p

Great, now Wooders28 is going to set the Bullhead speed record even higher before I can challenge it lol ;p

Good luck with it.

Let's wait and see what happens. You never not made it yet, right ;)  

The issue is that most hot motors are timed from the factory. With the rebuildable motors where you can easily turn the end bell, it's not that big of a deal. But there's a lot of nice brushed motors out there in full cover cans that cannot easily be timed. So, don't fall into that hole - jump head first when you're done with the silvercans. You will get a soft landing :)

Quick question. Is a pair of Graupner Speed 500 BB Race VS motors silvercans? I mean, they're 540 size and really like silver and shiny :P

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12 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

You mean this one?

https://www.graupner.com/Electric-motor-GRAUPNER-SPEED-400/1794/

Says L & R so you can change the direction, and it looks cool yes, not sure what you're asking about it though? ;)

No not that one. The 400 are basically 480 series motors. Not even as much power as a silvercan.

I was thinking this.

http://www.modellbauparadies.de/SPEED-500-BB-RACE-VS-72V

Or maybe this

http://www.modellbauparadies.de/SPEED-600-RACE-84-V

The Speed motors are made for boats and are usually made to spin in both directions as well as being able to handle loads of power and torque. I'm sure that Speed 600 Race will handle a 4S in a speed run, as it's built to handle 9.6 volts in a boat,

I was just trying to be funny with the silvercan thing, hinting that they would be perfectly eligible for runs on the silvercan list. They are for all intended purposes silver;)

 

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13 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

You mean this one?

https://www.graupner.com/Electric-motor-GRAUPNER-SPEED-400/1794/

Says L & R so you can change the direction, and it looks cool yes, not sure what you're asking about it though? ;)

What they call 400 is really a 380 like the grasshopper motor.

I think 500 is 540 and 600 is 550.

Not confusing at all...lol

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1 hour ago, nowinaminute said:

What they call 400 is really a 380 like the grasshopper motor.

I think 500 is 540 and 600 is 550.

Not confusing at all...lol

Precisely. And when you added all the letters they used, i.e, BB, SP, VS, E and what have you, it got really confusing.

 

Graupner SPEED motor spec sheet.pdf

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On 4/26/2019 at 12:38 PM, Jason1145 said:

Great, now Wooders28 is going to set the Bullhead speed record even higher before I can challenge it lol ;p

Really don't think you need worry, I don't seem to have time atm, although I've nightshifts coming up.....🙄

Not sure if these will fit?

Rated to 4s too 😜

Although I bit pricey...

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/traxxas-titan-550/rc-car-products/15278

And a reverse rotation motor - 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/traxxas-titan-550-reverse-rotation-21t/rc-car-products/32002 

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17 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

Really don't think you need worry, I don't seem to have time atm, although I've nightshifts coming up.....🙄

Not sure if these will fit?

Rated to 4s too 😜

Although I bit pricey...

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/traxxas-titan-550/rc-car-products/15278

And a reverse rotation motor - 

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/traxxas-titan-550-reverse-rotation-21t/rc-car-products/32002 

It looks like a regular 550 can, so you can check and see if you have an additional 7 mm of clearance behind the 540 motors.

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