Tamiya Club Official Top 10 Fastest RC'ers List

[Jason1145]

1 hour ago, M 800STD said:

It's not a simple case of multiplying Kv by v and that's your max rpm.  Motors will have a physical limit to their max rpm and so will the ESC, as pointed out by another member on here.  Generally the larger you go the lower the rpm.

Also motor manufacturers would not recommend spinning motors this fast due to failure.  Does Castle state xmotor Vmax has 100 000 rpm capability, what do they say their ESC capabilities is?

 

Wooders, you may benefit with a longer run area, also I have observed in speed runs, not just cars, that they would allow the batteries to rest for a period of time before setting off.  Don't know how much of an impact this would make.

 

 

DO esc's have RPM limits?? They don't spin, the motor does, so what does the esc have to do with the rpm of the motor??

Can you link an esc page saying it has a max rpm (for the esc)?

I always calculate the rpm at the motor by kv x Volts, this is how it was recommended by many people on other forums, and it states that too in the Lipo guide posted here a while back. I'm not saying the motor will achieve that max rpm for a number of reasons (under performing lipo, drag in the drivetrain etc), but that's the theoretical way to start calculating top speeds etc.

I know if I plug my 6900kv motor into a 3s lipo (11.1v) the motor should spin at a maximum of 76,590rpm.

[Jason1145]

Well fancy that.... so esc's do have rpm limits... well some do.

http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/models/files/Max_Speed_of_Controllers.pdf

 

[Hyperlite]

50 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Speed run entry

Marui ninja, 1060 esc, 2S lipo, silver can.

A rather now pedestrian , 19kph - 11.8mph 

 

You know this will force me to blow the dust off my old Ninja.......

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, Hyperlite said:

You know this will force me to blow the dust off my old Ninja.......

 

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Sheesh Wooders, you gonna make me enter those new 3 cars on the list arrgghhhhh ;p

I hope those builders take over your run spot muuuaaaahhhhhhhh ;p

Just need another 5 to get to the top of that category! 🙄

Once the builders huts are away, I'm thinking of putting a wee ramp at the end , to try and buy more room, so I hit ramp rather than kerb!! 🤔

[MadInventor]

2 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

Well fancy that.... so esc's do have rpm limits... well some do.

http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/models/files/Max_Speed_of_Controllers.pdf

 

Just had a quick look, I think I'd want to be in a bunker before trying to run a motor at 360,000rpm. I think the limit is due to the max frequency at which the speed controller can pulse the control signal going to the motor. It's a strong argument for using a bigger motor with a lower KV limit and ridiculously high gearing (Cue the 'big V8 versus twin turbo rice burner' argument  )

It's also interesting to note that the ESC limit is pretty much halved when using a 4 pole motor versus a 2 pole, so 2 pole motors might be better for the speed runs that 4 poles if it's suspected that the ESC is limiting the motor rpm.

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, Jason1145 said:

DO esc's have RPM limits?? They don't spin, the motor does, so what does the esc have to do with the rpm of the motor??

Doesn't the esc have to work out were the motor is on its rotation to fire the correctly timed pulse? 

Presume sensored set ups will mean the esc has to do less calculations so could spin quicker than sensorless?

[Wooders28]

5 minutes ago, MadInventor said:

(Cue the 'big V8 versus twin turbo rice burner' argument  )

Big V8 with twin turbos, (and a big gob of giggle juice till they spool) argument solved! 😎

[Wooders28]

18 minutes ago, MadInventor said:

It's also interesting to note that the ESC limit is pretty much halved when using a 4 pole motor versus a 2 pole, so 2 pole motors might be better for the speed runs that 4 poles if it's suspected that the ESC is limiting the motor rpm.

Guessing the esc has double the calculations to do? 

If a 4 pole produces double the torque, you're back to lower rpm pulling a higher gear.

Not rc related, but a big V8 with twin turbos (engine builder used by a few on drag week and street eliminator in the UK and think Andy frost used for parts too) 

 

[M 800STD]

37 minutes ago, MadInventor said:

It's also interesting to note that the ESC limit is pretty much halved when using a 4 pole motor versus a 2 pole, so 2 pole motors might be better for the speed runs that 4 poles if it's suspected that the ESC is limiting the motor rpm.

Some manufacturers may alter the firmware for you if asked.

I know MGM will for me.

[Wooders28]

Found a 3800kv castle that came with a sidewinder esc, lo and behold

 

Now, is that going to be better for a speed run than a 2 pole 5700?

[MadInventor]

16 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Found a 3800kv castle that came with a sidewinder esc, lo and behold

 

Now, is that going to be better for a speed run than a 2 pole 5700?

Depends on how many cell LiPos you can run each motor on. The 3800 on 3S will give the same rpm as the 5700 on 2S (in theory), but with a lot more torque. So if you can, I would use the 4 pole motor and fit larger tires to increase gear ratio. Increasing the wheel size means more speed without increasing the speed at which the transmission has to rotate, so less transmission losses for more speed, but of course you need the torque in the motor to cope with it or you'll get a very hot motor.

 

[Wooders28]

3 minutes ago, MadInventor said:

Depends on how many cell LiPos you can run each motor on. The 3800 on 3S will give the same rpm as the 5700 on 2S (in theory), but with a lot more torque. So if you can, I would use the 4 pole motor and fit larger tires to increase gear ratio. Increasing the wheel size means more speed without increasing the speed at which the transmission has to rotate, so less transmission losses for more speed, but of course you need the torque in the motor to cope with it or you'll get a very hot motor.

 

5s, I'd hit it with the same lipo's, but both motors say 3s max! 🤔

Funny you should say about tyres, @Jason1145 what were the overall diameter of the tyres you ran (and pinion size)? These are 105mm outside diameter tyres and a 19t pinion, the fastrax tyres I have are 130mm but were unstable.

[M 800STD]

Couldn't find motor chart.

[Wooders28]

10 hours ago, M 800STD said:

Couldn't find motor chart.

Yeah, that's all the info I could find in the esc box.

"Do not use with 3s lipo" must have to jump straight to 4s! 🙄😁

[M 800STD]

I coveted the Ninja when I was a kid.  Couldn't afford the actual kit so brought the little model, powered by x2 AA.

Still loving it's looks.

 

So I tried to find out more, on the motor, for my personal interest and because I know nothing of Castle.

The motor you have, 1410, is not listed on Neu Motors or Castles Special Projects.

This may be of interest:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiU4vCk2s7UAhULD8AKHXxXBE4QFgheMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlecreations.com%2Fen%2Fneu-castle-1410-3800kv-motor-5mm-060-0036-00&usg=AFQjCNFvq5q6o5L58qwOF5zHxMhm0HmDMg

https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/asin/B0061HA6KA/2/ref=ask_dp_iaw_ql_hza?isAnswered=true#question-Tx23KCKL2JCV3CH

Castle creations:  CSE060-0036-00

[Jason1145]

M800STD Pls don't forget the link for the Montech M10 bodyshell on the other thread ;p

[Wooders28]

2 hours ago, M 800STD said:

I coveted the Ninja when I was a kid.  Couldn't afford the actual kit so brought the little model, powered by x2 AA.

Still loving it's looks.

 

So I tried to find out more, on the motor, for my personal interest and because I know nothing of Castle.

The motor you have, 1410, is not listed on Neu Motors or Castles Special Projects.

This may be of interest:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiU4vCk2s7UAhULD8AKHXxXBE4QFgheMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlecreations.com%2Fen%2Fneu-castle-1410-3800kv-motor-5mm-060-0036-00&usg=AFQjCNFvq5q6o5L58qwOF5zHxMhm0HmDMg

https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/asin/B0061HA6KA/2/ref=ask_dp_iaw_ql_hza?isAnswered=true#question-Tx23KCKL2JCV3CH

Castle creations:  CSE060-0036-00

Cheers for the links!

Love the 'motor only rated to 3s' 🙄 lol

Looks like the motor, 

105 kph feels along way off, but,may try the larger fastrax wheels / tyres I had trouble ballooning with, on again.I only ran them on the road outside work, but that's really dusty (our fault😕) and has a big camber, may get different results on the relatively level car park,i bit of inspiration from the car itself..."No guts No glory!" 

[M 800STD]

I found the Amazon Q & A interesting, also the mention on model weight.

Do you think the size of wheels used is stopping you from using higher gearing to achieve ultimate Vmax?  I'm not familiar with your car so don't know what gearing combinations are possible.

 

Just found this, different part number:

http://www.castlecreations.com/en/legacy-products/legacy-surface-products/neu-castle-1410-3800kv-motor-060-0021-00

[Robert5000]

It's slightly worrying to me that the castle creations 4600 and 5700 are being mentioned in this thread as they are the ones I've put in my re re Optima and waiting to go into the re re Avante. 

 

[M 800STD]

lol, I don't see a problem.  : )

I really want to see the a Castle powered Optima, please.

[Robert5000]

That's simply because you haven't seen my driving @M 800STD If you had you'd be terrified. 

I do see how an optima disintegrating upon impact with an inanimate object would be quite a sight, so I'll try my best to make your wish come true. 

[M 800STD]

lol, I do like the Optimas, childhood favourite, but please keep her safe.  : )

Anyway I can't drive in a straight line, so I got a gyro.

[Jason1145]

21 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

5s, I'd hit it with the same lipo's, but both motors say 3s max! 🤔

Funny you should say about tyres, @Jason1145 what were the overall diameter of the tyres you ran (and pinion size)? These are 105mm outside diameter tyres and a 19t pinion, the fastrax tyres I have are 130mm but were unstable.

I ran 125mm tyres on my DT03, this gained me some extra speed.... but very swervey.

[Wooders28]

3 hours ago, M 800STD said:

Do you think the size of wheels used is stopping you from using higher gearing to achieve ultimate Vmax?  I'm not familiar with your car so don't know what gearing combinations are possible.

What's stopping me using higher gearing is only a 17t and 19t (seemingly a 20 will fit) pinions fit! That's the reason the DT03 car's are running tall tyres.