Tamiya Today

[Prescient]

Tamiya need to up their game and look at what is expected of the modern toy markets. 

They are really out of touch. They know how to cater for the 80s generation but not the 00s.

Traxxas /HPI understand it a bit better by offering good value RTR with speed. Traxxas got a lot of licenced kits recently including bigfoot. Tamiya RTR kits are half as fast and for a 8-15 year old not as cool.

For example, as they are not able to deliver on speed, Tamiya could incorporate a mfu/just sound module for such little money in the off road kits.

This would really enhance play factor for kids who really do expect this stuff.

The turnigy light and sound modules don't cost much. Taigen Tanks can manage a full option metal tank with smoke and firing function for less than a tamiya MFU or even a spare set of Tamiya tank tracks lol. 

Has anyone else tried a Taigen Tank? Great scale detail, fully loaded from £120-£180, in many ways better than Tamiya ones.

Even the ESS one is reasonable value.

Heck even the model railway guys manage digital + lights and sound for little money, fitted in a space that is a few mm across and that is a proper niche market. 

So why do Tamiya not do this? 

£25-35 plug and play sound and light module or included in the kit is easily achievable.

[Mad Ax]

Much as I hate to have to agree, you do raise some valid points.  Tamiya can't compete with Traxxas or HPI on out-of-the-box speed or robustness but they can't compete with the cheaper manufacturers on price.  The real question is: could they build a kit which is as tough and fast as an equivalent-priced Traxxas and still make it a fun build experience?  I think the answer is yes, with enough R&D, but would that put the finished kit over budget?  Probably only Tamiya knows the answer.

Tamiya have also been vastly undercut by other MFRs on light and sound.  I recently bought a touring car light kit for £9.50 from a local shop.  It's a fully-functional kit.  Headlights, tail lights, brake lights, reversing lights and indicators, all hooking up to the 2ch radio.  (OK so it's not full control like the Tamiya MFUs or Beier modules etc. but adds great scale looks to a drift car).  I've got a couple of Tamiya light units that came with NIB kits but all they do is show head and tail lights.  To link them to the radio needs a separate module which costs up to 6 times as much as the one I bought.  Why?  I can only guess Tamiya are still dealing with high manufacturing costs and are still recouping expensive R&D when they were among the first to start doing this.  But that's just speculation on my part.

I know Tamiya have shipped some of their manufacturing / packaging out of Japan to cut costs, and although I don't have any definite stats to back this up, I've heard more people complaining recently about kits with missing parts.  I myself had an NIB kit missing two parts trees this year, a first in all my years of Tamiya ownership.

So who are Tamiya's market, and are they worried that the bottom is going to drop out of it?  There's still plenty of us on here queuing up with excitement to hear what releases will be announced at the big November show.  We know that nobody else makes touring cars with shells as detailed as Tamiya's, we know people are still excited about forthcoming re-releases and we know there's a special "Tamiya-ness" about Tamiya that makes us want to buy just one more, even when we have lots already.  I don't find myself thinking that about anything from HPI or Traxxas.

The biggest kicker for Tamiya has got to be the recent Kyosho re-releases tho, especially seeing how Kyosho have improved their vintage designs for the modern age for a price that people are prepared to pay, while Tamiya have re-released a couple of much-loved models that seem to be as fragile, if not more so, than they were in the 90s.

I'm still curious as to why it's been such a quiet year for Tamiya releases and if there's something in the pipeline that will set the scene for a revived Tamiya RC branch in 2017, or if they're just going to carry on doing what they're doing for as long as their are nostalgic fools like me prepared to spend money on it

[speedy_w_beans]

We've had two or three similar threads in recent years.  Let the comments about heritage, scale modeling, detail, kits, soul, quality, and Japan market focus vs. jelly molds, speed machines, RTR, Chinese, world market begin!

[TurnipJF]

Okay, here goes:

 

To me, a toy is something you buy, unpack and play with, whereas a hobby-grade model is something you build and then play with, look at or whatever. I know this view has nothing to do with design, materials, performance or any such real world criteria, but to me a kit-built Tamiya is a hobby-grade model, a Traxxas is a toy. A very fast and fancy toy perhaps, but still a toy.

 

My 1.5p...

 

[Prescient]

12 minutes ago, TurnipJF said:

Okay, here goes:

 

To me, a toy is something you buy, unpack and play with, whereas a hobby-grade model is something you build and then play with, look at or whatever. I know this view has nothing to do with design, materials, performance or any such real world criteria, but to me a kit-built Tamiya is a hobby-grade model, a Traxxas is a toy. A very fast and fancy toy perhaps, but still a toy.

 

My 1.5p...

 

Surely in the 80s and 90s Tamiya RC were toys played with by kids, teens and adults? Even today no?

All that has happened is time has passed.

Kids aren't interested in Tamiya kits the same way they used to be though and adults collect them for nostalgia or as hobby-grade. I am excluding racing but certainly in the UK that isn't what it used to be and the number of tracks seems to be diminishing .

There have always been hobbyists linked to Tamiya RC but that was a separate market segment originally.

Now unfortunately Tamiya hasn't really moved on for the younger market but companies like Traxxas etc have. You can buy a plethora of RTR kits which are FRP based, fast brushed / brushless, 20mph-30mph+ for close to the Tamiya kit only price.  

Tamiya do make some great scale kits but their new ones have some very odd branding, colour / decal schemes and names. Sandshaker, Agrios, Asterion, Zahhak to name a few etc. Names that neither appeal to the hobbyiest or younger generation. 

 

 

[Nitomor]

I feel like they are just stagnating and tired, which is a real shame giving they have an awesome brand name to build on. Imo they are lacking in enthusiasm, passion creativity and energy. I don't think they need to reinvent themselves, they just need to do what they always have but in an up to date marketplace, once they were at the forefront, they need to get back to that to be competitive. It isn't cool as a kid when your RC is inferior and uncool compared to the rest of the competition. It's fine for all of us indoctrinated in the Tamiya way but doesn't help sustain our kids attention.

Just looking at the Box art on new stuff, it is appalling frankly and hardly appealing.

 

[Prescient]

37 minutes ago, Nitomor said:

I feel like they are just stagnating and tired, which is a real shame giving they have an awesome brand name to build on. Imo they are lacking in enthusiasm, passion creativity and energy. I don't think they need to reinvent themselves, they just need to do what they always have but in an up to date marketplace, once they were at the forefront, they need to get back to that to be competitive. It isn't cool as a kid when your RC is inferior and uncool compared to the rest of the competition. It's fine for all of us indoctrinated in the Tamiya way but doesn't help sustain our kids attention.

Just looking at the Box art on new stuff, it is appalling frankly and hardly appealing.

 

One of the things that used to keep Tamiya at the forefront of the market was the branding and licensing. 

Ok, they still do well on some touring cars but the modern rally, F1 and touring cars branding / sponsors are seriously lagging.  

They could have really made something of the XV-01 Rally series but used historic bodies then HPI come along with Ken Block / Monster branded WR8 RTR kits, which come in cheaper than an equivalent specced XV-01. Kids identify with that, they don't with a 1980s Lancia Delta. 

You then get Axial which has kicked Tamiya into touch in the crawler market. 

Traxxas gets the E-Maxx, X-Maxx and even Bigfoot licensed monster trucks, we get the Agrios with logos and branding that looks like something you would expect to find on a .xxx web domain.

Tamiya make a unique WT-01N which is actually one of their most scale looking trucks (bar 3 speed) produced in years, then give it an Amarok shell, and nothing. Of all the popular and mainstream trucks they could pick, they chose the Amarok. I appreciate it was commemorative but put an F350, Hi-Lux, L200 etc on the WT-01N and it will sell. 

 

Anyway, whats prompted this is that I am trying to get my kids into Tamiya RC this Christmas and there is nothing in the range, even showing them the Youtube vids I can get them to identify with and they want. They both want Traxxas. 

[zomboided]

I like the degree to which I've been able to modify Tamiya kits to make them my own, but my HPI Sprint 2 and Axial SCX10 highlight to me that Tamiya is definitely lacking in multiple areas (including value for money).

I have to say though, I didn't realise the Agrios was XXX.  I have a NIB that's just whizzed to the top of my pile of things to do over Christmas now.

[Terz1]

Yes they (tamiya) are sadly lacking in their offerings these days and if you were new to the market I think people would get an axial or rc4wd for trail running or scale builds a traxxas for bashing and something like like an maverick scout for crawling which is fantastic at the job for a casual user. Tamiya seem to have dismissed the crawler scene (I mean the totally dedicated ones, not a cr01). They don't have a short course truck which is really popular at the moment (nissan titan doesn't count , it's a buggy with and different lid). The big wheeled kits like a clod, bullhead, agrios would be like moving bollards compared to the current crop from other manufacturers. Ive a clod and love it but I know it's a slow, fragile and heavy lump.  Best we have is the wt01, which I love! 

Other manufacturers have gone too other lengths besides branded products too. You can get rc's 1/8 and even 1/5 scale which look amazing, brushless and lipo ready straight out of the box. Oh and bearings! Why oh why do we not get bearings standard??? The speed and durability of these newer brands really puts tamiya in the shade too. I know people don't like the rtr scene and myself much prefer to build (in fact to me it's all about the build) but I'd love the thing I build to be as quick and robust as the traxxas are out of the box. I might be possible to get the tamiya in the same ball park speed wise but knock for knock would it hold out like a traxxas?

It is sad really that I want a stadium truck and I've being thinking about a stadium blitzer for a while now but after seeing an hpi e flux and how fast and capable it is (fit certain gearing and it'll go 77mph) and I know I'd have to invest £££'s to get anywhere near that and even though it's a tough tamiya it won't be as tough as the hpi which are great quality.

To end though. If I want an rc tamiya is my first port of call. It's the build, the box art, the improving of a rough diamond. I'll always like them more than any other manufacturer so hope they up their game. Keep what attracted people. The  build experience, the amazing box art, branded trucks and logos and detailed shells all with fantastic names. Then include bearings, move to brushless lipo ready esc with brushless motors. Make it all waterproof. Then make the kit stronger to handle this increased speed. And finally product test evetything so it will last! If a company like traxxas released a product like the gearbox on the blackfoot it would be a disaster. We tamiya enthusiasts accepted it but the current generation and those to come won't I don't think.

[Theibault]

I've said it before. Tamiya does what Tamiya wants to do. Everything is catered to the Japanese market which behaves very differently than any other market in the world. They follow their own drum and don't really care what others say. The few models that are up to par are their race kits. Otherwise, I'm happy with how they do business.

[speedy_w_beans]

Tamiya : Legos :: Traxxas : Playstation

It's a different form of play.

[Prescient]

All things aside, I love Tamiya. I am glad I grew up in a time before smart tech and when 'Tamiya' was the Christmas toy of choice. 

I just wish they looked at ways to move forward and incorporate the modern technologies available. 

What I really struggle with at the moment is why they have dropped the ball on a lot of their new kits body designs / decals.

It's easy to forgive the lack of speed and the price for scale perfect vehicles, but when they aren't even doing these on the modern chassis it make me sad.

A WT-01 / WT-01N kit with polycarbonate F350/Hi-Lux  bodies etc would be a really great imo. 

[iluvmud]

I just wish I could get a dang track that races tamiya fun classes (like the CW01-GF01)......... theyre fun to bash, but i think it would make RC fun again if just anyone could go buy a tamiya kit and race it. Ive raced truggies and SC stuff but it just seems like more work which is opposite of fun. I know there are people who enjoy it, but I think it would be way more fun running these fun clumsy rigs

 

[Saito2]

As Speedy pointed out, this thread topic comes up every couple of years (heck, I think I brought it up years ago, asking if Tamiya was still "first in quality around the world?"). The subject does bring up some very important key points about Tamiya in relationship to what the competition is doing plus where they were and where they're headed. I will bring up that, in the end, Tamiya is a plastic model company. I often get sucked into the RC side of things too, but have to remember first and foremost they create scale plastic models (the best, in my humble opinion). It is what they started with and I feel it's what they're key passion remains. It's not to say RC isn't important to them, but its just a slice of their pie so to speak. If you read Tamiya's autobiography you see where the passion lies and how small the portion on RC was compared to rest of the book.

[khyzersoze]

"Instant Gratification Entitled" generation doesn't really want to build anything.  Just consume and discard.  Unfortunately, that generation isn't interested in what Tamiya has to offer.  At least LEGO is making a huge growth in popularity with their licensed sets.  Maybe that will spur the younger generation to start enjoy building things with their own hands.

[Prescient]

Very true. 

Its a good parallel and it is the licensing of Lego that has really made the difference and bar the re-releases, it is where Tamiya seems to have dropped the ball. 

I would imagine their sales from focusing on the re-release RC vehicles is keeping them happy enough to plod along in that aspect of the business as well as the core plastic kits. 

At least they are catering for their core market with the re-releases and it is a market they have no competition in so an easy win. 

It would be nice if they could think about enticing the future generations so in 20+ years they are on the forums bemoaning Tamiya of tomorrow, rather than it just being us but another 20 years older lol.  

 

[acprc]

Tamiya make kits for the Japanese market first, always have and always will. Everything else is an afterthought. I still enjoy the brand and apart from some old vintage Kyosho wouldn't even consider anything else. Axial....who are they?

[Mad Ax]

48 minutes ago, Prescient said:

What I really struggle with at the moment is why they have dropped the ball on a lot of their new kits body designs / decals.

It's easy to forgive the lack of speed and the price for scale perfect vehicles, but when they aren't even doing these on the modern chassis it make me sad.

To be fair, they are still doing a couple of good things.  The Racing Fighter, while suffering from the necessary wide dimensions and long spider arms of modern buggies, has a really great-looking shell, IMO.  In fact I think it's the best of all the modern Tamiya offerings and has more than a mere nod to scale realism in its shape, decals and colour scheme.  In fact I just had to look at the NIB under my desk to remind myself how good it looks.  I guess it's a shame that they haven't gone all the day and released a frame buggy like the Kyosho Sand Master or Vaterra Twin Hammers.

36 minutes ago, iluvmud said:

I just wish I could get a dang track that races tamiya fun classes (like the CW01-GF01)......... theyre fun to bash, but i think it would make RC fun again if just anyone could go buy a tamiya kit and race it. Ive raced truggies and SC stuff but it just seems like more work which is opposite of fun. I know there are people who enjoy it, but I think it would be way more fun running these fun clumsy rigs

So true - vintage racing and wheelie racing is where racing is at, for me.  The UK vintage scene is starting to kick off again thanks to Iconic RC, it's a shame I can't spare the time to buy an old touring car and do the Iconic Cup next year because it looks like a riot.  (Although, as per the "what the heck is that" thread), even in vintage racing, people are zeroing in on the best-performing shell instead of the one that looks most scale.  IMO that's why vintage racing classes should be quite strict on what shells can be run too.)

Every Iconic meet usually has a wheelie race, it's never taken seriously and it's always a total hoot.  20+ Lunchboxes, Wild Willies and dump trucks going around a circuit at the same time, often on a "last man standing" basis, is hilarious, and there's nothing so fun as watching a pile-up of 15 cars off the start-line with only a handful making it into the first corner.

[TurnipJF]

There seems to be a lot of talk of Tamiyas being slow and not terribly innovative these days, but looking at the TA-07, I certainly wouldn't say this is true across the board. With its exoskeleton frame it looks by far the most radical mid-level touring chassis out there, and is no slouch either from what I gather.

 

Then there are those designs that may not be all that innovative, but they still work really well even against far more up-to-date kit. Take the venerable F103 for example. My mate took his base-spec example to 3rd place against a field of far more modern machines last race day. (I can't say I have been as successful with mine, but I blame the driver.)

 

[Backlash]

On ‎28‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:05 AM, Theibault said:

I've said it before. Tamiya does what Tamiya wants to do. Everything is catered to the Japanese market which behaves very differently than any other market in the world. They follow their own drum and don't really care what others say. The few models that are up to par are their race kits. Otherwise, I'm happy with how they do business.

 

I think that what Theibault has written is a big part of the "problem" as we see it with Tamiya.. They primarily cater for the Japanese market, which is so very different from the rest of the world.. A prime example of this is the Kumamon tractor, which obviously means a lot to the Japanese market, but is not really much more than a weird little cartoon character to the rest of the world...

Has anyone ever heard the saying "Jack of all trades, master of none"??

Tamiya has to have the largest range of RC vehicles bar none, and I cant help but wonder if they haven't overextended themselves to some degree in thw current marketplace.... Not only do they cater for the hobby market with an extensive range of on and off road vehicles, they also cater for the racing side of the hobby with their TRF range, the crawler side with the CC-01, CR-01, High Lifts and re-release Mountaineer and Bruiser.. They also cater for the specialty markets with their Yachts, Gliders, 1/35 & 1/16 RC Tanks, and 1/14 RC trucks and trailers....

 

[Problemchild]

Let's ask this Q - in 25years will anyone be begging to have a Traxxas model re-released?? 

 

JJ

[TurnipJF]

Probably.

 

Back in my youth, we looked down on Nikko "toys" and wanted proper Tamiyas instead. But now a well-preserved Nikko can fetch a fair price, and would probably sell if re-released, just like the Big Trak did/does.

 

The kids of today want Traxxas toys, so the adults of 25 years' time will probably want to relive their youth with a re-re just like many of us want to do with Tamiya.

[Backlash]

1 hour ago, Problemchild said:

Let's ask this Q - in 25years will anyone be begging to have a Traxxas model re-released?? 

You also need to remember that Traxxas started in the late 80's.. How often do you hear people asking for one of their early chassis to be re-released??

http://first10yearsoftraxxas.blogspot.com.au/

[TurnipJF]

Traxxas used to make kits!!?!

What on earth possessed them to stop? Serious modellers would probably take them a whole lot more seriously if they weren't purely makers of pre-assembled RTR toys!

[Prescient]

I had one of their stadium truck kits in the mid 90s when Traxxas was the one to have. You got oil shocks, slipper clutch etc as standard and I ran a hot mod motor and ESC.

There is a reason there is little demand for reissues, man they were ugly back then with the cream nylon parts and almost brick like bodies. 

Fast as.....though.