Good trade? Avante for Dyna Storm?

[Twmaster]

I recently got a used Avante. I was thinking of trading it for some other Tamiya buggy that I could actually use without spending loads of time on repairs and parts hunting. Also seeking some model with the same approximate value. This all leads me to thinking I would want a Dyna Storm.

Is this a reasonable trade? The Avante is complete and in better than average condition except for original Technigold motor and MSC (It is presently fitted with a Tekin ESC and some sort of mod motor)

[mud4fun]

I personally don't understand why the Avante is rated so highly and still attracts such high premiums. It is plain rubbish. Mine lasted all of a few minutes before breaking. After constant new parts (mostly front and rear suspension parts) I sold it.

I've recently been running Avante2001 and Vanquish, both very similar designs. They are no better. The front suspension uprights last approx. 2 minutes on all but extremely smooth and flat surfaces. Anybody that claims their Avante/Avante2001/Vanquish/Egress is reliable and robust hasn't ever run the thing in anger.

Although I haven't owned a Dyna Storm, I've seen them run and they are much faster than an Avante, better handling and more robust.

If I owned a Dyna Storm I wouldn't swap it for an Avante. However, there are plenty of people who will pay the stupid premium they attract just so they can look at it on a shelf. My personal opinion is that an R/C car isn't worth owning if it can't be run - so I'd say a Dyna Storm would be a great alternative to the Avante.

[netsmithUK]

I think you'll get people biting your hand off for the deal.

People collect the avante for similar reasons they collect SRBs. Its not that they are the fastest or handled the best. Its the fact they are great models. Yours will probably get restored and the wheels never touch the floor again.

If you want an Avante you pay a premium as they are few and far between. Dynastorms you can still get from Fusion etc, so its a no brainer from a collectors point of view.

Cheers

Chris

[ideal2k]

quote:Originally posted by mud4fun

The front suspension uprights last approx. 2 minutes on all but extremely smooth and flat surfaces.

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id="quote">id="quote">

I used to race these things (Egress/Avante2001) back in the day, and I have to say I don't understand where you're coming from at all.

I once broke the aluminum upright on the left hand side, but that was after running into a solid object.

So I can really only offer you this advice; stop running your car into things.

[Tamiya01478]

My Avante 2001 was really tough, had a Clod driven over it once - by mistake I hasten to add - and survived intact.

[Wireless]

I think you were very unlucky with your Avante and replacement parts Ian. They are actually a very reliable and tough car. They have a reputation for falling to bits, but this is only because they are VERY maintenance intensive. An original Avante probably needs one minute of maintenance for every minute of run time simply because it's overly complex and made up of lots of compound parts all screwed together.

It could be that your definition of off-road is different to what the manuafcturers intended. The circuit at Kidderminster is about as rough as most off-road racing tracks get. No rocks, pebbles, big jumps or such. Even the surface we were running on at Clumber last weekend would be considered too rough for an off-road circuit with all those divvuts in it.

Never a back-yard basher, the Avante is more a work of art. It's nowhere near as tough as something like an Egress. My Egress isn't as tough as my Gravel Hound, but then again, my Thundershot has taken more abuse than all of them.

Avantes are a bit like Alan's Ferrari 328. Lovely to look at, go very well for their age and will still show 90% of cars a clean pair of heels, but you wouldn't want to use one every day and they have short service intervals at great expense. Remember though - they don't depreciate...!

[Wireless]

Sorry Mike, got carried away there. To get back on topic, a decent 2nd hand Avante is still worth way more than even an NIB Dyna Storm IMHO. I gave £145 for an NIB Dyna shipped to my door. Claire paid around double that for a very nice Avante courtesy of Shodog. Both were good deals.

Avante for an equal condition Top Force Evolution and you're getting some way there, but I still reckon the Av is worth more in a like for like condition trade.

All in the eye of the beholder really...!

[mud4fun]

Sorry Guys, just my opinion. My experience comes with actual use of these cars and my original Avante was raced but to be honest wasn't anything special compared to the competition at the time.

The design is poor and is weak, I've run 3 of these cars now and none have survived more than a few minutes driving even on mild terrain without some form of breakage. A thundershot would last hours on the soame terrain.

They aren't even fast, mine just about keeps up with a the pack but that is running 8.4v and a 13t dyna run ST motor. My vanquish in stock form is one of the slowest buggies I've driven. The Egress is really only an Avante2001 with posh shocks and screws which mine has been fitted with anyway.

Lucodeath drove my Avante2001 last weekend and he even suffered two broken uprights from 2 minutes of very careful driving on a very flat section of the Clumber field. Those uprights were NIP items fitted only a few weeks ago and had no mileage on them.

My Vanqush and Avante2001 have both suffered constant breakage of the rear uprights. Again, even on the flat.

I'd say that anybody who has run these cars without breakage are the lucky ones, the vast majority of people I've spoken to that have run them have all experienced similar problems to me.

Breakages are fine if you have the money and parts availability but this just isn't the case with these cars. An SRB is cheap and easy to source parts for in comparison.

The value of the car comes down to whether you are going to run it or admire it on a shelf, if the latter then an Avante is probably the finest example from Tamiya. As a runner I'd advise looking elsewhere.

[Shodog]

I won't get into the Avante discussion. I had one and after running it a couple of times I decided to sell.

The dynastorm doesn't have the same mystic or collecter following like the Avante does. If you want a runner, sell off the Avante and buy a used associated B3 for $50-80 dollars and then use the rest of the proceeds from the avante sale to by a good radio and ESC.

[DJTheo]

I think you are a bit too hard on the Avante Ian, because of your tough test track. Most cars have their weak parts which break all the time, even your beloved Thunder Shot, if you wouldn't have modified the front upright, so its not fair to compare a stock Avante with a strengthen TS.

Can only recommend though a DS for a cheap runner, got mine NIB for very few money and love its handling http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=22968&id=16

Cheers

[mud4fun]

LOL, Theo, I was comparing it to a stock thundershot! True, they break but not from simply running over a slightly uneven surface. I've only suffered breakages on the thundershots from impacts or sustained use over very rough tracks. I have actually modified the uprights on my vanquish and that is now much, much more robust [8D]

As you know Theo, I'm a big buggy fan and have over the last 25 years run in anger just about every Tamiya buggy made. I'm not comparing the Avante to just a thundershot but to every other buggy I've driven.

The Avante is a fine performer while it works. I think my Avante2001 performs better than my old Avante did, don't know why, maybe narrower front tyres? Handling and balance is superb. They are quite heavy cars though so overall performance isn't as good as other buggies running same motor/battery combo or you just get less run time.

Strangely enough the best surface to run an Avante on is tarmac. I raced mine in the local car park against very 'hot' touring cars and it kept up with them fine (with appropriate tyres). In fact cornering on tarmac is incredible, so much traction. For me though a buggy should be able to run over rough ground. If you want to run on very flat smooth surfaces then buy a touring car or Rally car.

The advantage with the Dyan Storm is that it is much lighter and being only 2WD has less drivetrain resistance so the same motor/battery combo will give much better run time.

When I have some spare cash my next buggy will be a Dyna Storm. I fell in love with the things when I first saw Moosey's which is insanely quick but still manages to handle like on the proverbial rails - very impressive for a 2WD. The fact that you can still buy them NIB just makes it more desirable for me as a runner.

[mud4fun]

Of course I'm still up for a race for pink slips to prove me wrong

I did offer to run an endurance race over my track with anybody that cared to prove their Avantes prowess. I'd run a stock thundershot and we'd run over say 1000 laps of my course. If the Thundershot won I'd keep the Avante. If the thudnershot lost I'd give either an SRB or my Avante2001 and Vanquish to the winner. Rules would be simple, no repairs allowed other than the use of tiewraps, super glue and change of batteries. (no replacement parts)

The last Avante owner I suggested this too backed out - don't know why? []

[netsmithUK]

maybe its because you 'test track' looks more like a building site? Can't remember a track with a broken hardcore section with 2" chunks of bricks []

Maybe the Avante owner can select the track? And the course could be a standard shorter flat out race like the good old days. Say kidderminster 5 mins. It wouldn't solve which was the most robust but I don't really think thats the question but it would point to which was the best period racer and wether the Avante was a suitable racer under normal racing conditions

Don't look at me though - with my driving skills I might as well just hand my car over before the race and save time[)]

I'll video it though

Chris

[mud4fun]

quote:maybe its because you 'test track' looks more like a building site?

id="quote">id="quote"> Correction - my track IS a building site

LOL, my driving isn't up to much either!

Idea behind using a rough track was to prove which was ultimately the more robust vehicle.

I've never said that the Avante wasn't a good performer. On a flat track it'll whoop a thundershot, well a stock one anyway. On tarmac it'll probably be more than a match for most touring cars especially in the hands of somebody that can drive well.

Shame my local car club refuses to allow buggies to race on its track....some daft excuse about unfendered tyres might damage other cars - yeah right, more like they are worried that their super expensive tourers might be made to look silly against a vintage buggy [][8D][]

of course a really great endurance race would be a Dyna Storm versus an Avante - 2WD v 4WD!

[Wireless]

Avante and Thundershot...? We're not comparing apples with apples here. There's a very good reason whic Thunderbrick got that nickname. Tough as old boots and about as sophisticated. Designed to go forever ramping over stuff in peoples back gardens. The Avante was designed to perform over 5 minute races on preapred off-road circuits.

Like saying a Top Fuel Dragster's **** because it's slower round Silverstone than a Ford Ka.

[mud4fun]

Yeah, true enough Wireless. In fact maybe only 4 minute races....

I seem to recall the races back in the late 80's only being 4 mins because battery packs weren't that big a capacity. I dare say even an Avante would manage to get around a flat track in 4 mins without falling apart []

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Back to the original point of the post though: If I had an old Avante and I wanted to swap for a good runner then the Dyna Storm would be a good value swap. I'd be getting a buggy that performs well, is reliable and parts can still be found. I've seen used Avantes sell on ebay recently for as little as £120, unless they are mint they don't atrract such a premium because finding the parts to get it back to tip top shape will take loads of time and costs loads of money. Avante2001's sell for much less despite having most of the Avante drivetrain. I have bought 3 Avante2001/Vanquish in the last few months for as little as £60 each.

Twmaster I assume you are talking about an original Avante and not the later cheaper one?

I sold my original Avante about 6 years ago for £50, I bought a portable TV for when I go away camping. The portable TV has given me far more enjoyment and had more use than the Avante so in my eyes it was a good deal!

[Wireless]

Yeah, you're right. They were 4 minutes. There were 8 minute races as well, but they were usually the on-roaders.

It's all in the eye of the beholder as I said. There's no definitive price for a buggy, it's worth what someone will pay for it. I'd never run an Avante simply because of the maintenance issues. I'd run an Egress which were tougher. Rarely see those drop to bits.

For now I'm happy with my Gravel Hound. Pretty tough and cheap as chips...!

[Lucodeath2]

Dont use an avante on bumpy grass! Thats all I can say

[Twmaster]

Ugh.

Ask a simple question..... [}]

[ideal2k]

quote:Originally posted by mud4fun

Of course I'm still up for a race for pink slips to prove me wrong

I did offer to run an endurance race over my track with anybody that cared to prove their Avantes prowess.

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id="quote">id="quote">

Let me run my Avante 2001/Egress hybrid, and you're on. I'll be running circles around you.

[mjohnston39]

Back to the orginal question, I've seen NIB Dyna Storms go for about 130-150 on the Bay however, I haven't seen a lot of spares for these cars out there. So this maybe a consideration if you're looking for a runner, and you maybe spending time and money "hunting" for spares. That said, I have a Dyna Storm runner I purchased NIB and they are really nice buggies, fast and handle well. Faster than my Vanquish/Egress with the same motor etc.

Mike

[mud4fun]

Ideal2K you're on, as soon as I've finished my workshop so all the timber is out of the way I'll give you a race!

We'll have to get some independent TC members to verify the laps etc cos' I'm skint and can't afford transponder/lap timer equipment.

Mind you, as you're Avante2001/Egress is modified then I guess you'd be OK with me running one of my modifed thundershots?

Probably be next spring now as I live in North Lincs and it has done nothing but rain for months....might get the rest of the timber frame for the workshops finished by xmas at this rate..... (it is a very big workshop, really a barn!)

[ideal2k]

quote:Originally posted by mud4fun

Mind you, as you're Avante2001/Egress is modified then I guess you'd be OK with me running one of my modifed thundershots?

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id="quote">id="quote">

I wouldn't exactly call it modified.. it's an Avante 2001 with an Egress body and Hi-Caps in front.

[mud4fun]

LOL, Yep, I think mine is more modified: Locked center diff, 8.4v pack, dyna run super touring motor, high torque servo, narrow front tyres, wide rear, Egress rear shocks, teflon bearings, modified steering geometry and will soon be running my own design front and rear uprights.

I love your showroom motto 'All my cars must run' - I feel exactly same.

Now, problem is your in Norway aren't you? going to be difficult to arrange a race......

[DJTheo]

Actually to see which car is better you should use the same motor and battery, 2 races would be idea, one with stock car with 540s and one with all hop ups allowed, but always with the same motors and cells.

I know where I would put my money []

Cheers