iluvmud

Repro - again

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iluvmud.

Please read the TamiyaClub rules in the link below..

In particular Rule 18..
18. Due to recent legal issues, no manufacturer is permitted to advertise reproduction parts on any part of Tamiyaclub. Adverts for reproductions of (but not limited to) decals, bodyshells, driver figures, tyres are all banned. This is for products from all related manufacturers, not just Tamiya
Links to sites distributing repro goods will also be removed and any 'homemade' products bearing branding or art will also be deleted.

 

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9 minutes ago, Backlash said:

iluvmud.

Please read the TamiyaClub rules in the link below..

In particular Rule 18..
18. Due to recent legal issues, no manufacturer is permitted to advertise reproduction parts on any part of Tamiyaclub. Adverts for reproductions of (but not limited to) decals, bodyshells, driver figures, tyres are all banned. This is for products from all related manufacturers, not just Tamiya
Links to sites distributing repro goods will also be removed and any 'homemade' products bearing branding or art will also be deleted.

 

You sure? Think that has changed

 

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Thats good to hear I hadn't heard about twinsets changing of the rules. I'm clear on the fact that we can now sell any repro items we have on tamiya club if we've bought some from a manufacturer. And that a manufacturer of repro items still can't advertise or sell their products on tamiya club.

Where do members stand if for example like jason has asked about a decal sheet, could we tell him the name of a repro company and provide a link if we are not affiliated with the company in anyway? At the moment people know they're out there and pm others that aren't aware of these companies. Can these links be provided in the posts instead of in top secret, undercover, fbi secret messages? :rolleyes:

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20 minutes ago, Terz1 said:

Thats good to hear I hadn't heard about twinsets changing of the rules. I'm clear on the fact that we can now sell any repro items we have on tamiya club if we've bought some from a manufacturer. And that a manufacturer of repro items still can't advertise or sell their products on tamiya club.

Where do members stand if for example like jason has asked about a decal sheet, could we tell him the name of a repro company and provide a link if we are not affiliated with the company in anyway? At the moment people know they're out there and pm others that aren't aware of these companies. Can these links be provided in the posts instead of in top secret, undercover, fbi secret messages? :rolleyes:

I dont see why we couldnt , the company isnt advertising just a club member recommending a quality product to a forum member.

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Interesting to read about the rules, thanks for broadening the knowledge.

So as its now allowed and within the rules... I just checked the MCI Racing site but can only see Associated and HPI F150 sets but not Tamiya?

 

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7 hours ago, iluvmud said:

You sure? Think that has changed

 

As far as I'm concerned, nothing has changed until the rules have been changed..

Send the link in a PM... It is that simple...

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10 hours ago, Terz1 said:

Where do members stand if for example like jason has asked about a decal sheet, could we tell him the name of a repro company and provide a link if we are not affiliated with the company in anyway? At the moment people know they're out there and pm others that aren't aware of these companies. Can these links be provided in the posts instead of in top secret, undercover, fbi secret messages? :rolleyes:

From the post above yours;

Links to sites distributing repro goods will also be removed...

Most members on here can 'google'

There's so much repro stuff out there now, Tamiya are either not doing anything about it or not able to.

To make sure we're not seen as promoting repro goods, links are best shared privately.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Backlash said:

As far as I'm concerned, nothing has changed until the rules have been changed..

Send the link in a PM... It is that simple...

graphics-ok-328602.gif

 

Links to sites distributing repro goods will also be removed...

Most members on here can 'google'

There's so much repro stuff out there now, Tamiya are either not doing anything about it or not able to.

To make sure we're not seen as promoting repro goods, links are best shared privately.

 

^ this makes sense.....

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What I'm concerned with is that if we do start to openly "talk" about some of these repo body/decal manufacturers that are out there in the TamiyaClub forums, that it could make it that much easier for Tamiya to find them (if they haven't already)..

I just did a Google search for "repo Tamiya decals" and the TamiyaClub forums were the 4th result that came up...

Just because the TamiyaClub rules say that we can now poke the bear, I'm still not sure that we should.. :unsure:

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40 minutes ago, Backlash said:


What I'm concerned with is that if we do start to openly "talk" about some of these repo body/decal manufacturers that are out there in the TamiyaClub forums, that it could make it that much easier for Tamiya to find them (if they haven't already)..

I just did a Google search for "repo Tamiya decals" and the TamiyaClub forums were the 4th result that came up...

Just because the TamiyaClub rules say that we can now poke the bear, I'm still not sure that we should.. :unsure:

not sure of the validity of this as that is a thread from 7 years ago.

 

Not trying to make your life difficult, but not really sure of what would happen if they saw people mention reproduction parts. If Tamiya doesnt want us to buy them then they should keep producing the bodies... (If they read this and do it, it would be so great).

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5 hours ago, iluvmud said:

not sure of the validity of this as that is a thread from 7 years ago.

Not trying to make your life difficult, but not really sure of what would happen if they saw people mention reproduction parts. If Tamiya doesnt want us to buy them then they should keep producing the bodies... (If they read this and do it, it would be so great).

You missed my point... 7 years ago was probably one of the last times that repo parts were actively discussed on the forums.. My point was that those threads/posts still show up in current Google searches... If we start discussing repo parts in the forums again, then those new threads/posts will probably start to show in the Google searches as well.. ;)

I don't fully understand copyright law... I don't understand why I can go to my local car parts shop and buy aftermarket or non genuine parts for my real (1:1) car (or how those manufacturers can legally make those non-genuine parts), but at the same time have Tamiya frown on the manufacture (and discussion) of  "reproduction" parts for their RC cars.. Maybe its because we use the word "reproduction" which basically means a copy, where instead we should be using the words "aftermarket" or "upgraded" that suggests that the parts are not made by Tamiya, and were designed or redesigned independently of the original part, even though it serves the same role or purpose as the original part..

Could the answer be as easy as putting the words "reproduction" or "repo" into the TamiyaClubs swearing checker so that those words cant be used on the forums??

I suppose I just don't want to risk of having TamiyaClub shut down over repo parts..  

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7 hours ago, Backlash said:


I just did a Google search for "repo Tamiya decals" and the TamiyaClub forums were the 4th result that came up...

Probably because Tamiyaclub members call them "repo" instead of "Repro".

I mean, we are talking about reproduction, not reposession.

Another example is "MFU" instead of MFC (-01,02,03).

Those Canadian made decals are rubbish anyway... 

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33 minutes ago, berman said:

Another example is "MFU" instead of MFC (-01,02,03).

We are getting off topic now, but.....

The MFC-01/02/03's are Multi Function Control Units.. MFC-01/02/03 is Tamiya's designation for each one, just like their ESC have the designation TEU101BK, TBLE02S etc..

Personally I use the abbreviation "MFU" as a general term to describe the MFC-01/02/03's when I don't want or need to be specific about which one I'm talking about..

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back to decal sheets ...^_^

I fully agree that we should not promote companies that produce unauthorized replicas of decals etc. in the forum. PM is a nice way to share information then. 

The decal dilemma is that some original decals are not available or are only available at phantasy prices (eg Clod Buster).   

Thus, I guess a lot of people here purchased this 3rd party decals that are reminescent of the vintage/original ones. Unfortunately, according to some TC-threats, customer satisfaction is not always high.

I also got some repro decals and quality varies, but is far from bad; for my upcoming restos (Twin Detonator, Vanquish, Clod Buster) I am forced to buy some of these reprints for the reasons depicted above.

 

BTW, @Jason1145: PM sent, maybe its useful...

 

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4 hours ago, Backlash said:

I don't fully understand copyright law... I don't understand why I can go to my local car parts shop and buy aftermarket or non genuine parts for my real (1:1) car (or how those manufacturers can legally make those non-genuine parts), but at the same time have Tamiya frown on the manufacture (and discussion) of  "reproduction" parts for their RC cars..

This is what I'm thinking:

On bodyshells and decals, it is pretty easy to claim a copyright on the design. Even with some deviations (different colours, different material), non-sanctioned reproductions are likely to be defined as bootlegs.

On mechanical/functional parts, aftermarket manufacturers should make them deviate from the original parts in some manner. E.g. by colour, material choice, surface, appearance. However, full copies like the Chinese TL-01B clones are going too far.

Following this logic, reputable aftermarket manufacturers should pass on producing bodyshell reproductions and decals, while producing aftermarket mechanical parts should be safe as long as not blatantly copying a design down to the bones.

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5 hours ago, Backlash said:

...Maybe its because we use the word "reproduction" which basically means a copy, where instead we should be using the words "aftermarket" or "upgraded" that suggests that the parts are not made by Tamiya, and were designed or redesigned independently of the original part, even though it serves the same role or purpose as the original part...

I don't think calling them aftermarket decals would fool anyone as they'd still have to resemble Tamiya's products and be advertised with specific Tamiya model names in order to sell.

Then, the problem with the swear filter - repo repr0 Re pro repro repo re-po re_po re_pro etc. ad infinitum - that's just for those two words, and that then excludes discussion of 'reproducing the effect indoors' and 'repositioning the servo' plus there's the aftermarket, upgraded, replica, tribute variants also.

 

It's clear from the amount of repro stuff on eBay that Tamiya can't or have given up trying to stop them so that was part of my discussion with Chris - TC stopped production when we were told, we stopped discussion (or reacted to it quite quickly) for several years and yet there's a blossoming repro market still out there and Tamiya's own forum has no ban on discussion of repro goods (that I could find).

 

So, in the interests of board harmony (as most of the issues are on the forum, not the main site) why not lets ease up a bit and see what transpires.
The main reason for the let-up was so members could sell goods and make it clear some of them were reproductions/copies etc.

TC won't ever permit the commercial trading of repro goods again, so we're not as complicit as eBay and, as the opening post points out, MCI are doing a fair bit and even have a website which I assume makes them slightly traceable yet they haven't stopped (and they been around a fair while now)

There's not a lot of repro talk on here nowadays anyway, not sure if that's because people have actually read the rules or they just 'search' for stuff first.

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Hopefully Tamiya will end up rere'ing most of the popular ones anyway, certainly most are now catered for (MB/Blackfoot/Bruiser etc even if not identical to the original). I bought a vintage Hilux decal set from MCI and another set from the ebay Dartford source, neither were great quality imo and not a patch on Tamiya's own, ironically open discussion would probably result in less people buying them or the vendors would need to up their game!

Either way, I'm perfectly happy with conversations happening in PM, out of etiquette/respect to TC and Tamiya both of whom provide the main nutrients to our hobby :) . 

 

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This topic has been discussed at length in the motorbike restoration world too (ref. decals and parts) and the overall feeling is the same : we'd all much prefer to buy the genuine article from the original manufacturers if we could, but if they refuse to supply it then we have to look elsewhere.  And those same manufacturers stamp on the r*production suppliers too, which is doubly annoying.

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8 hours ago, Backlash said:

We are getting off topic now, but.....

The MFC-01/02/03's are Multi Function Control Units.. MFC-01/02/03 is Tamiya's designation for each one, just like their ESC have the designation TEU101BK, TBLE02S etc..

Personally I use the abbreviation "MFU" as a general term to describe the MFC-01/02/03's when I don't want or need to be specific about which one I'm talking about..

I know why Tamiyaclub member's call it that. I was stating that because you are searching for an uncommon (but common here) terminology for an item, it is coming up more likely on Tamiyaclub under a google search.

Like MFU...

:rolleyes:

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53 minutes ago, StrokerBoy said:

This topic has been discussed at length in the motorbike restoration world too (ref. decals and parts) and the overall feeling is the same : we'd all much prefer to buy the genuine article from the original manufacturers if we could, but if they refuse to supply it then we have to look elsewhere.  And those same manufacturers stamp on the r*production suppliers too, which is doubly annoying.

Same on Japanese car forums. Lots of people like era correct Japanese wheels from Japanese manufacturers of the time, they have usually been long discontinued and owners like to have something uncommon on their car. Lots of other people like like their wheels but they aren't available. So a company like Rota make cheap cast copies (usually at the expense of quality etc) and the people who don't want to spend the money can have the same look.

It isn't much different with vintage and rereleases, apart from being the same company.

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On 11/2/2016 at 6:49 PM, Backlash said:

Just because the TamiyaClub rules say that we can now poke the bear, I'm still not sure that we should.. :unsure:

I know at one point TC itself was listing / advertising repro decals and got served some letter warning that ninjas would be sent to @netsmithUK's house if they didn't stop.  As I understand it that was the origin of the total ban on even mentioning repro parts and decals.  A little extreme, but a cautious approach is understandable when ninjas are involved.  I totally agree with the relaxation on discussing repro parts - it's a freedom of speech issue more than anything, we're not violating anything by discussing them.  Even if you went to the extreme perspective that purchasing repro products made you a criminal, this would only be each individual acting independently and in no way implicating TC in any 'wrongdoing'.  There are completely legal websites with tutorials on how to make napalm and things that go boom - discussing something in a forum... even indicating an intention to do something 'illegal' is not in itself a crime nor is the platform responsible for any actual IRL actions taken by individuals.  There are some exceptions of particularly prohibited materials of course, which would implicate the forum itself... but slightly sub-par copies of stickers to put on toy cars doesn't qualify.

In terms of people's personal concern about discussing these things despite now being allowed to... look, I understand it's natural to fear Tamiya and their ninja army, but if they are really so aggressive and threatening then how could MCI Racing or Team Blue Groove possibly still exist?  They would have been hunted down like dogs by now -- their Canadianism couldn't protect them from Tamiya's insidious wrath.

So... in keeping with the guidelines mentioned by @TWINSET, so long as any actual sales / trading of repro products, or sharing of links to repro products / makers is done via PM we should be well within our rights to crawl out of the shadows and talk openly about repro parts and our use of them, etc.

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15 minutes ago, iluvmud said:

Hey beef I thought people could sell them, just not manufacturers or venders etc.

Spot on, not sure where Beef's getting his info from

Discussion of repro goods is permitted, provided it doesn't turn into promotion of repro goods or companies by forum members - this is more to assist members than manufacturers.
Personal selling of repro goods is allowed, provided the person selling was not involved in the manufacture/production of the item.

For instance;
I could sell a repro decal sheet or bodyshell here if I bought it from a third party.
I couldn't sell it if I'd printed/molded it myself or commissioned someone else to make a load  for me (even if they're leftovers from a batch etc.)

To clarify further, no manufacturer will be permitted to promote repro goods or sales 'outlets' here, that includes linking to eBay or sites in their signatures etc.

 

All of this is on a trial basis and it's still being monitored.

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